User talk:Sainsf/April 2016–May 2016

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	My congratulations on your fantastic achievements here at Wikipedia! I have very much enjoyed your interesting collaborations and contributions; ...amazing really! I would be amiss if I didn't also mention your gorgeous user page! I am sending you this much deserved barnstar to add to your impressive collection . Natalie.Desautels (talk) 10:05, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

For Sainsf with congratulations from Natalie (French Canada)

Hello User:Sainsf

My congratulations on your fantastic achievements here at Wikipedia! I have very much enjoyed your interesting collaborations and contributions; ...amazing really! I would be amiss if I didn't also mention your gorgeous user page! I have sent you a much deserved barn-star to add to your impressive collection .

Someone is reviewing an article I initiated, Michael Laucke, and which has been nominated for GA status; ...encouraging to be sure as I have been an active (and passionate) editor for only 1 year with 3500 edits. Now I don't think two editors can review for GA status at the same time, but I'd love your opinion and feedback for improvement nonetheless.

The article is about classical and flamenco guitar, atonal music in general and an internationally renowned Canadian guitarist in particular. I very much enjoyed contributing several hundred hours of research and edits. We've made about 1500 careful edits, about half of which are the incredible work of @Checkingfax:, and over 53 other editors have also helped. We used neat LDR (List-defined references), and there are 125 references, all carefully researched for verifiability. I am a proud "Polyglot" (multilingual person, as you are!) and took the pleasure of making French and Spanish versions for now.

I know time is always too short but even a quick glimpse would be appreciated. My goal is to make it better and I love to learn; creating the best an article can be is important to me. I am a perfectionist from birth, it would seem... I do hope that this might interest you, that I have piqued your curiosity. PS. If you need French or Spanish translation for any of yours, I would be delighted, as time permits.

Kindest regards, et Merci! Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 13:09, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

@Natalie.Desautels: You are one of the kindest Wikipedians I have ever met! I am short of words to thank you. I would love to help with the article, but I am busy till 6th this week... nevertheless I will take a quick look at the article in the next few minutes and add my comments at the review. I am really impressed with your careful edits, not many are so devoted (at least I was not till two years of joining!) MPJ-DK is reviewing it, but many others can give additional comments at the review. The final decision lies with the reviewer, who has no reason to fail the nomination without a strong reason. Don't worry, we all learn from our first GAs; my first nomination was failed twice, and today I have learned a lot and am reviewing stuff myself! Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 11:23, 3 April 2016

(UTC)

@Checkingfax:

चांगले. ("Good" in Marathi-I spent some time in India ) Hello User:Sainsf, What a surprise to have the pleasure to hear from you so quickly; many thanks—much appreciated as are your comments on the Michael Laucke article and your very kind words. Your remarks are certainly educational and will be most instructive toward the improvements I intend to implement this week, striving for better focus and comprehensiveness, as you say. I commented on the snooker section, where my opinion respectfully differs from yours, but as I like to say, two people cannot be one person (the wisdom of which is one of the secrets to happiness) . My warmest thanks (I'm French and we're warm—hope it's not embarrassing). Again, do consider my offer for translation, if need be. (not something I offer to just anyone ). I can do excellent work, since I was given my several mother tongues at birth, and speak truly without accent in each; furthermore, I can also wave a University diploma in languages (never enough languages and study time though; life is so short) --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 17:05, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

@Natalie.Desautels:

Hehe... bonjour! (Wish I had more time to learn French!) We will talk about the article at the review page, I see we have progressed a lot in a day! Splendid collaboration here. I really liked how politely you gave your opinion, and you are right to a good extent. The article looks better after all the cleanup, but I would like to tell you that you should not leave any parts of the article without sources. At present I see some claims without citations at the end, and these may be tagged as lacking verifiability, moreover someone may have come along and added improper info. MPJ DK can take care of the rest of the article. And you are indeed going to be a treasure to Wikipedia, see what a lot of talent you have! Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 07:12, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

@Checkingfax:

Hello again User:Sainsf. Well, bonjour is certainly a good start! Thank you for the nice compliment, always welcome... It would be wonderful if you could point us to some of the "claims without citations at the end". We have just removed all citations from the lead. This is the fifth time they have been implemented only to be deleted. At one point, the interpretation of all the Wikipedia rules and policies would seemingly take a Talmudic scholar ...just joking... I am eager to learn which citations might be construed as missing in the body of the article. I'm sure I can fill them since I have collected so many articles on this artist. Well, off to sleep now. Always a delight to hear from you. with very best wishes, warm regards, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 07:58, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! Yes, even I remember only a few MOS policies and have to visit the page like a hundred times to remind myself of the rules there! Good that you removed citations from the lead, I like that; but remember that if you are making some huge claims in the lead that are well-supported in the main text you had better add a good citation to the lead for it, it's considered a good practice. Never worry, though the reviewer will assess the article mainly, I and other uninvolved folks can add our comments, like a mini-review. And you had better watchlist my talkpage, it's better than pinging. Would love to chat, but you must take a nap first! Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 08:12, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

@Checkingfax and Pdebee:

Bonjour User:Sainsfǃ Comment va-tu? Ah, that was a good sleep... well, back to the adventure ː) Indeed, as I like to joke, there are so many complicated and conflicting policies that we almost need a wise talmudic scholar to come to a sensible interpretation of the laws—we should start a new project, Wiki-Torah ː) Seriousness aside, at the beginning editors said there were too many sources, that they were too long. Some were deleted, other were shortened, and some were truncated. It is this latter category where we see some of the problems highlighted in the current GAR; not surprising as some of the quote is missing. So I'm grateful that the present reviewer pointed that out. Thus, I am looking up the original newspaper articles once again, and typing in the missing parts.

Seemingly simple, it can be quite tricky actually. I originally thought our "job" was to objectively report what sources said, either in our own words or by way of direct quote. One of Canada's senior and most important critics said "Laucke is the person who has done more for the guitar in this country than anyone else." After some conflict, this quote was accepted. Then, an important critic wrote "To the best of my knowledge, his (Segovia's) only Canadian pupil was the Montrealer Michael Laucke, who studied with him in Los Angeles and New York." But an experienced editor said this is peacocking (showing off), so now we'll just delete "only". Alas, the greatest victory is often not going to battle; life is so short, and every day is a gift. Well, there's a little thought for today; I do hope it pleased. ...time to roll up my sleeves and get back to some satisfying, creative wiki-work. ...nice chatting again... Tous mes meilleurs voeux, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 22:50, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, you have to be really careful on what all you quote, neither too positive nor too negative. At least make sure that you represent both extremes. By the way I have posted all my comments on the article at the review page, "driveby" comments as we call it. MPJ-DK is gonna give the rest of the points. And no haste, the review will stay open so long as we keep working on the issues. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 09:01, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the sound advice, and the reassurance; much appreciated. very best wishes, Natalie.Desautels (talk) 22:14, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

@Checkingfax and Corinne: Dear Sainsf ...just a little friendly greeting to say that I'm almost finished the various and sundry cn issues you so kindly mentioned; they do add to the article's clarity. ...only five left to do, so I'm whittling away ...probably will finish tonight. ...and just when I thought I could actually go for a nice walk

Barnstar for you

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		Thanks a lot for your patience, support and guidance while reviewing Mahavira, Jain monasticism and Digambara for GA. Your positive attitude of suggesting and pinpointing flaws rather than rejecting the GA nomination is what inspired me to keep improving till the GA tag was recieved. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 09:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

@Capankajsmilyo: Glad to hear from you! I believe GA reviews can also help in improving articles, they are not just places to promote or reject. Go on, I want to see more nominations by you! Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 09:38, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Citation barnstar

		The Citation Barnstar
		For showing me how easy citation-editing can be! If it wasn't for that, manually filling templates and waiting for the ever-glitchy Citationbot would slowly drain my editing-powers... FunkMonk (talk) 05:50, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Wow, never knew I could be so helpful! That should give you a 10x editing boost :D ! Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 05:54, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

San Giacomo Scossacavalli

Hallo Sainf, thanks a lot for your kind remark on my talk page! I just came back from (extended) Easter vacation plus wikipause, so I will correct the article according to your advise in the weekend. Thanks again, Alex2006 (talk) 15:40, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

@Alessandro57: Sure, glad to have you back. :) Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 15:53, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Lakireddy Bali Reddy

Hi, Sainsf. Can you change Reddy's name to Telugu instead of Urdu? Thank you so much. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 16:17, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: Hi. Sorry, I am afraid I do not understand either language... you may try Google translate, but at you own risk. Cheers! Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 16:20, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Blue duiker

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Blue duiker you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of IJReid -- IJReid (talk) 04:40, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Eagle Boys

Thank you for your work reviewing my Good Article nomination of Eagle Boys - I really appreciate your comments and help getting the article up to scratch! Clare. (talk) 08:45, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

You are welcome Clare. I did nothing more than glossing the article a bit, I must thank you for writing such a beautiful piece. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 09:18, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Teamwork Barnstar

Bonjour! ...my cyber friend and colleague. I am just so delighted to send you this very well deserved Teamwork barnstar. Your participation in achieving GA status for Michael Laucke was so rewarding for me and I felt encouraged by your kind demeanor and many helpful recommendations. ...excited about the possibility of the next one...and you learned a little French as well . Time to celebrate with a nice croissant, as we French are wont to do . My warmest thanks. Natalie.Desautels (talk) 21:26, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

@Natalie.Desautels: Splendid! Practise with a few more GAs, and then we will take the leap to FAC! I will try to stick around... Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 02:48, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: Hi again User:Sainsf. May I infringe upon your good nature to help with a small navbox issue. Two very useful standard naboxes were deleted recently from Michael Laucke—{{Classical guitar}} and {{Flamenco guitar}}. Would you consider putting them back if this is according to policy? I'm not sure, but I think if I myself did so, it might be construed as 'editing warring', and I'm much too peaceful for that . Similar or the same nav boxes exist on many WP flamenco and classical guitar articles, such as those on Julian Bream, Alirio Diaz or Sabicas. Guitarist Laucke actually plays both styles of guitar, and before these navboxes were deleted, one had at one’s fingertips the answers to, well, perhaps many things the user might wonder about pertaining to acoustic guitar.

Note that Laucke is already linked from one navbox (classical), and that the other flamenco navbox is about interesting techniques, so these navboxes really should be there. The diff is here . If you can restore them, I would obviously be very delighted. If not, I certainly appreciate your time in considering this little request that I took the pleasure to present. Cordially, and warmest best wishes, Natalie... Natalie.Desautels (talk) 19:51, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker). I looked at the {{flamenco guitar}} navbox and although it mostly mentions techniques, it also includes the list of flamenco guitarists which does include Michael Laucke as a notable flamenco guitarist. Here are the two navboxes:

For background, the edit summaries for the deletions of these navboxes (done more than once) stated that the artist was not listed in the navboxes. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 21:07, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Seems there has been a sea of edits there in the last one month! I checked the diff Natalie.Desautels kindly pointed out, but I think I missed the other instances of deletion Checkingfax mentioned. It would be best for us peaceful beings to contact the editors who made these changes, let us know their rationale. Even if I restored those navboxes, it would be indirect edit warring. Thanks, Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 03:00, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Sainsf (with cc to Natalie.Desautels). I do not think we need to poke the bear. Their only edit was to swoop in and delete the navboxes after they were reverted by me. It was a tag team thing. Nothing worth seeking out. However, I am starting a proper discussion here to give everybody time to come to a consensus. They are watching the page and can join in if they choose to. How does a 14 day comment period sound? Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 03:13, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: I would go with your suggestion. Let us be on the safe side by attempting a consensus, on the editors' or the article's talkpage. Please clarify there that we shall wait for 14 days from now. Cheers, Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 03:30, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

OK, Sainsf, I added the 14 day comment period window. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 03:41, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

@Checkingfax, Corinne, and Pdebee: Hi Sainsf. I just wanted to thank you for your precious input and reasonable and peaceful agreement with Checkingfax's recommendation. Kind regards, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 06:25, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Blue duiker

The article Blue duiker you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Blue duiker for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of IJReid -- IJReid (talk) 14:21, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

History of agriculture in Scotland

Thanks for all your work on the GA review of this article. Much appreciated.--SabreBD (talk) 06:47, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

@Sabrebd: You are welcome. Thanks for writing such a superb article. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 07:35, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Mahavira has been nominated for Did You Know

Hello, Sainsf. Mahavira, an article you either created or to which you significantly contributed,has been nominated to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page as part of Did you know. You can see the hook and the discussion here. You are welcome to participate! Thank you. APersonBot (talk!) 23:00, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

GA reviews of Jainism articles

@Sainsf: A note to let you know that the recent issues with some GA nominations with Jainism article are not related to you. I have seen your reviews, and admire the thoroughness and hard work you put in, in DYK and GA process. Having done reviews myself, I know how much work that is. Given the depth of online, partially online, and offline sources, copyvio issues are sometimes difficult to catch, and most reviewers assume some good faith that the submitter has done / followed certain basics. So, this note is nothing but a thanks, for all your efforts. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 15:00, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, your kind words mean a lot to me. I am not sure what issues you meant, I am not much into Jainism articles save for these three reviews. And thanks to you and to those you collaborate with for all your splendid work for WikiProject Hinduism, it is a true pleasure to read your articles. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 15:20, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

@Ms Sarah Welch: I see now that you were referring to the AN discussion on Capankajsmilyo's severe copyvios. Never thought I would be related to something as serious as this, I could reveal only the top of the iceberg in two reviews, while it is perfectly possible that all three I reviewed and the two I promoted could be serious copyvios. If these two GAs need to be delisted, I would have no objection. Thanks for your vigilance. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 16:10, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Awaken the Dragon

I am currently very involved in the Awaken the Dragon initiative (I live in Wales). It is proving to be an excellent contest and is absorbing all my time. I will have more leisure to review Springbok in May. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:39, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

@Cwmhiraeth: Thanks for the note, fine with me. It's a great initiative, I would love to help with GA reviews for Welsh articles. I was a bit too late for Ceredigion... Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 08:48, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Good. I will let you know if I have a Wales-related GA nomination that seems unlikely to be reviewed by the end of the month. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:51, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi

FYI: I further expanded Railroad Gazette while you were approving it for GA, using a source I found. Check it out, and let me know what you think. Cheers, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:43, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

@Northamerica1000: Hmm... It looks interesting. No troubles with the prose, but I guess you need not repeat ref. 8, just put our at the end of the para it supports. Thanks for improving the article . Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 13:55, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Removing the citations makes me nervous. Per Wikipedia:Citing sources, "Wikipedia's Verifiability policy requires inline citations for any material challenged or likely to be challenged, and for all quotations, anywhere in article space." Without the citations, someone very well may come along and remove the content, with a rationale that it is not cited. Also, the book preview does not show all of the text, and the text available in the preview can vary, so if a user goes to read the source, they may not be able to see it all in Google preview, and then unnecessarily remove content. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 23:04, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

I see the trouble. It's not necessary to remove the citations. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 02:31, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Four-horned antelope

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Four-horned antelope you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Ashorocetus -- Ashorocetus (talk) 01:20, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Article

The article Article you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Article for things which need to be addressed. Ashorocetus (talk | contribs) 14:27, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing those two Wales-related articles. I do not intend to nominate any more for GA before the end of the Wales competition. After that, I will have more time to review other things (like "Article"?). Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:01, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

@Cwmhiraeth: Splendid job, I am sure the dragon is wide awake now! It has been a pleasure reviewing them. Hehe, no idea how that "Article" crept in! I have quite a queue at the GAN... Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 02:50, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Four-horned antelope

The article Four-horned antelope you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Four-horned antelope for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Ashorocetus -- Ashorocetus (talk) 03:21, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Sainsf. You have new messages at Template:Did you know nominations/À la zingara.
Message added 16:37, 27 April 2016 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 16:37, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Jungle cat

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Jungle cat you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Dunkleosteus77 -- Dunkleosteus77 (talk) 03:00, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Mr. Lambu and M. S. Ramaiah

Hi Sainsf. I was refered to you by Checkingfax and was hoping that you could review the India-subject articles and AfD regarding Mr. Lambu and M. S. Ramaiah as, I believe, they are both being midunderstood due to problems with properly sourcing articles from this country. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 17:54, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

@Picomtn: Thanks for notifying me. I have added my opinions to these AfD discussions. Mr. Lambu is a notable movie, but the article might be facing challenges due to the very few number of sources cited. You could use more sources, try running a Google Books search and you will find good sources that you can use for establishing the film's notability and expanding the article. Please remember to use inline citations and, better still, citation templates.

As for M. S. Ramaiah, Checkingfax has given a lot of constructive suggestions on his talk page. I would like to add to that. The tone is, if not promotional, too positive about the subject and may look like flowery language unsuitable for an encyclopedia.

Please don't lose hope or be disheartened. I am happy that you are making such a lot of effort to save these articles, I hope these issues can be resolved soon. Cheers! Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 02:44, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Sainsf. Thank you so much for your Google Book guidance where I was able to find 4 good references, all of which I've now included in this article. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 10:33, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Sure Picomtn. I would be happy to help in any way possible in the future. Sad that I am not acquainted with film articles, you can look up the standards followed by film good articles (for film-specific articles, go here) to polish the prose and, who knows, one day nominate it for GAN! Good luck! Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 10:36, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Sainsf. Thank you for both your kind words and invaluable help with this article, and if you'd be so kind, I'm having a problem with the Jacky Lafon article as another editor says that I can't use this notable persons WP:NL article to expand this one, but now I find a notice at the top of the page saying that I can. Which is it? Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 10:52, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

@Picomtn: The editor wants to say that you can not cite another Wikipedia article as a source. The tag on the top of the article means that the Dutch article can serve as a standard for this English article, and you can try to trace the sources used by that article and thus its information. In other words if there is no option, you can develop this article in the same lines as the Dutch article that is in a better state, but without citing the wiki-article as a source itself. Hope it helps. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 11:03, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Sainsf. That's what I'm trying to do now, and I've put the citation on the talk page. Now, and if understand this correctly, with the citation I've put on the talk page, I'm now translating the Dutch article and adding citations, after which I'll put this information into this article. I will admit though, the sourcing on this persons WP:NL article is sparse, but then again, this a very popular person who over many years her life and accomplishments are well known to ordinary people thus not needing a more extensive sourcing. What are your thoughts? Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 11:10, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

@Picomtn: That's a good initiative. Northamerica1000 has listed a few sources that can show the notability of this article at the AfD discussion page. Be sure that you follow the WP:Translation guidelines and add information only from credible sources, and use inline citations. Whatever be the stature of the person, in every article here we need to add sourced information, little or much. Don't let unsourced claims stray into the translation, that will pose further challenges. Good luck! Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 11:24, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Sainsf. I hate to keep bothering you, but can you close the Jacky Lafon AfD so this article can be kept? There are 3 keep and 1 delete votes. I'm afraid someone is going to delete this article since its past 7 days and, as you can see, I've been working very hard to save it, but need more time. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 12:02, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

@Picomtn: You do not have to worry. I am sure no one can arbitrarily close the AfD and delete the article. The consensus is clearly to keep the article. I am not well-acquainted with the AfD process, and I think it is best to wait till an admin comes along to do the honors. Please make it clear on the AfD discussion page that work is in progress. And you can ping me for help anytime, no trouble; I will try my best or recommend others to you. Cheers, Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 12:22, 30 April 2016 (UTC)