User talk:Qswitch426

Bob Casey, Jr

Professor, thank you so much for correcting that for me. I thought I added that but I guess I was wrong. A big welcome to Wikipedia! Mystify85JEC 19:55, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject Systems

Thanks for joining the Wikipedia:WikiProject Systems. We can certainly use all the help we can get, especially from teachers in the field like you. As you probably have seen, there is still lot's to be done and lot's to improve. I've been doing some reading about your Integrated Science, Business and Technology program. I am sorry to see that they removed the article about it from the Wikipedia, although for you it's already some times ago. I'm looking forward in exchanging some ideas about systems thinking, you impression on this and the role it plays in you program. - Mdd 00:13, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

It's a pleasure to meet you Mdd! Thank you for the warm welcome. Our integrated program did indeed start a Wikipedia page last year as our program (ISBT) was specifically mentioned on the WP page for our school, La Salle University. Our hope was to describe the program's framework in Systems Thinking (specifically GST), but it's place and purpose on WP became mixed up with the need to keep a single department's information on WP and it was removed. Around the same time, we had launched our own Mediawiki-based wiki for our program. It is located here if you are interested. Systems Thinking has worked extremely well for us in the design of our integrated program. I am excited to share our successes and learn from other Systems enthusiasts. --qswitch426 00:05, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Thanks for this background information. I think that any Wikipedia article on university programs is problematic sooner or later, because these programs tend to change every year. And their are really a lot of these programs. On the campusmap of the Lasalle campus there seems to be dozends of programs on your University only. I guess their no more then some hunderd student in this program.
I myselve studied mechanical engineering at the Delft University of Technology and graduated in a Systems Engineering department in 1991 with 15 graduates a year. Nowadays we have a Technology, Policy and Management faculty in Delft with a 100 to 150 students a year. There program seems to look like your program.
I had seen your ISBT wiki and now I've read some more. From what I have seen, I guess your still in a startup fase. I wonder if in a few years, all the college material will be online and still open for outsiders. Now I have some more detailled questions but I guess this is a start -- Mdd 20:53, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Mdd... Yes, we are indeed in the start up phase of our program. We currently have around 100 students in the program across all levels and are working on growth. Our program is met with great reception in industry, but it takes some time to describe it to fellow academics in more traditional programs. We don't believe we have invented anything new, but instead are incorporating (integrating) some of the successful aspects of technology management into our American Liberal Arts model of education. Our program is not alone, but we appear to be among very few programs that are integrating at the undergraduate level. --qswitch426 23:00, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi William, I do believe it will be a lot of work to build your program. I can image that it is more a combination then a new invention, but with combining things you also reach something new. I'm particularly interested in the structure of program, and other integrated American programs in the field of Science, Business and Technology, and off cause the role of systems theory in it. Maybe I can tell you a bit more about the Dutch university systems in this field? - Mdd 23:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Mdd. I would love to learn more about the Dutch university systems in this field. We are always looking for things that work well. --qswitch426 23:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

From what I've heard an seen the Technology, Policy and Management faculty at the Delft University of Technology is a succes story, see homepage [1]. Lot of information is here still in Dutch, partly because they switched the entier website I believe for the third time. Some figures:

The faculty started in 1999. It has different 5 different departments, see [2] with in total 18 different sections. It has five different research programs Design and Management of Infrastructures Service Systems Engineering: Multi-Actor Systems: Analysis, Design and Management, Reflection on Technology, Risk and Design. Their are some more related research institutes, and in Holland they are working together in different research schools. The faculty offeres some different bachelors programs, see [3] and four masterprograms, see [4].

Maybe with this you can get a first impression. - Mdd 00:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Mdd. Thank you for the links. I will take a look. Our program was started in 1999 as well. The original design was modeled after the Integrated Science and Technology Program at James Madison University. That program is now an entire college within the University with over 1000 students in the program. If you are interested, it is liked here. --qswitch426 00:39, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Integrative learning

I read your Wikipedia history, and now I'm wondering if you made a hyperlink to your study on the Integrative learning article under external links? - Mdd 00:57, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

No, we have not placed a link on the Integrative learning page. Now that we have had five graduating classes, we are in the process of publishing our findings in the reviewed literature. Our first major paper describing our systematic framework was not accepted by the educational journal to which we submitted it. The primary concern was too much use of systems language and the unconventional use of General Systems Theory as a educational framework. It may find better reception in a systems-based journal, but our hope was to bridge the connection between systems and education. Until we publish successfully, I believe a link to our program would be viewed as original research at best or link spam at worst. --qswitch426 10:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to have kept you waiting. In the meantime I have thought about what you said, and did some research and editing in this field to get more acquainted. First back to your findings:

• I've seen that you made some notes about the "integrative learning program" in the integrative learning article last year, but you removed them. I saw no reason why you removed this. The Integrated Science and Technology you mentioned is still an existing article. And there is even an article.
• For me however it is still difficult to understand what integrated science means. I saw that the term itselve is mentioned 101 times in the Wikipedia, see [5].
• You don't have to have a reviewed article to make mention an website in an wikipedia-article. The only thing that counts is the relevence of the link.

It shouldn't be to difficult to clarify these items? - Mdd 00:23, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Mdd... Yes, our program was developed with consultation from the folks from the Integrated science program at James Madison University. At the time our WP page was being debated there was a loud call for integrated programs at single universities to be declared "non-notable" and not deserving of a WP page or a link. The link was believed to be simply link-spam. I did remove the links from the integrative learning page because of the clear message that the WP community did not find these types of programs notable. I'm surprised the ISAT program at James Madison still has a WP page... It is very similar in design to our program's page.

I know both the James Madison ISAT program and our ISBT program are founded on General Systems Theory, and Systems Thinking has been receiving the same criticism of being a "fad" or unscientific gimmick based on motivational management principles. I believe as Systems science matures and matriculates throughout universities, it will enjoy greater exposure. --qswitch426 03:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I guess that with the clear message of the WP Community, you refer (only) to the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Integrated Science, Business and Technology discussion. I ask this because these discussions are sometimes/often difficult to interpret. If there is more to it, pleace first let me know? - Mdd 12:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes. The link you provided is the whole of it. --qswitch426 02:29, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I studied the deletion debate and the pattern was very familiar. Some registrated user one after the other votes for deletion... and there is one editer trying to start a debate, which didn't realy got started. I'm in a same situation right now on the Dutch Wikipedia, where nobody really wants to talk about there vote because... for them the situation is allready clear. The article is not done (and in my case now a category I created is not done).

There where however voices in the debate, that the program was worth mentioning. Nobody as far a I could see really criticised the program as being a "fad" or unscientific gimmick. But I believe you could have got that feeling about the whole debate. People where asking, where the program could fit in..!? And Arthur Rubin as Wikipedia administrator had the last saying. He said a merge to Integrated learning would be acceptable.

Now I have been looking around the Integrated learning article as well. I found out, with what I already know from your program, that a merge isn't that simple. The article itselve can use a lot of improvement? - Mdd 23:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikimedia Pennsylvania

Hello there!

I'm writing to inform you that we are now forming the first local Wikimedia Chapter in the United States: Wikimedia Pennsylvania. Our goals are to perform outreach and fundraising activities on behalf of the various Wikimedia projects. If you're interested in being a part of the chapter, or just want to know more, you can:

• Contact us on IRC at #wikimedia-pa
• Join our mailing list
• Visit our blog at http://wmfpa.blogspot.com

Thanks and I hope you join up! Cbrown1023 talk 04:17, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

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