About Winternag

Hello, Farrell, I have noticed that you posted an alternative translation to "Winternag," and now you are revising it. Please understand that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and not a medium for the publication of poetry. I am not going to do anything about it (mostly because I enjoy your translation more) but I have to warn you that sooner of later somebody is going to delete your contribution as inappropriate for Wikipedia, and I would not like you to lose a lot of work when that happens. pietopper (talk) 16:37, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reposted from my user page

Pietopper,
I've no idea if this is the correct way to answer you. I'm having trouble figuring WIKI out. If you do get this please let me know.
Thanks for your response, I was pretty certain it would be removed. It wasn't posted for my own aggrandizement; I love the Afrikaans language, particularly the poetry, and wanted people to get a little better feel for the bittersweet directness of it's poetry. So I wrote that translation the same evening I put it on wiki; too quickly. Also there is a pretty significant mistake in the Marchant translation which seems to be generated in other translations, misinterpretation of "skade". Marchant mistook skade (damage) for skadu (shadows) and substituted "gloomy" which would have been "somber" in Afrikaans anyway. "Gloomy" or even "shadow" makes no sense at all, we have just talked about "bare and bright" and "starlight" etc. And "damage" leads us to the veld fires; a common occurrence. I don't know if you read my latest significant revision as of this AM (sorry, it's true):

O cold is the slight wind,
and keen.
Bare and bright in dim light
is seen,
as vast as the graces of God,
the veld's starlit and fire-scarred sod.
To the high edge of the lands,
spread over burned sands,
new seed-grass is stirring
like beckoning hands.

O mournful the tune
of the east-wind refrain,
like the song of a girl
who loved but in vain.
One drop of dew glistens
on each grass-blade's fold
and fast does it whiten
to frost in the cold!

I have also translated some of Koos du Plessis songs in rhythm, rhyme and metre for my own satisfaction and my non-Afrikaans speaking American wife and children. Koos du Plessis' songs are poetry set to music.

Born Pretoria 1945, lived in North America since 1965.

More on Winternag

You did a great job on your translation. I like the simplicity of it.

My own opinion on the "skade" translation is that Marais deliverately played on the words "skadu" and "skade." A night scene, seen by starlight, would be full of shadows, and then of course the damage from the fires.

You are, of course, aware that the poem reflects the hopelessness of the Boers after the second war. The grass seeds (hope) beckon; we see the dew-drops (life-giving moisture); but then they fade in the (cold) reality.

Enjoyed meeting with you. My name is Piet Opperman, born 1947 in Aliwal North; I lived in the USA in the Seventies for a while, and recently emigrated permanently to Sarasota, Florida.

pietopper (talk) 14:51, 27 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

=I'm so excited

Salutations to Pietopper and Farell. We have a discussion of Afrikaans poetry on Wikipedia! About time! Afrikaans evolved rapidly in its early years. I was introduced to Wintersnag by teachers in the 1960s who had been born in the 1920s or earlier. They pointed out that the constructions used by Marias may have been archaeic. For example he may have used "skade" to mean "skadu" (shadows) and, in the view of one noted authortity of the sixties, he certainly meant "brande" to mean waves (branders) and not fires..... I am paralyzed by being net 'n ou rooinek... Well-meaning dabblers end up trying to translate Marais. Upon reflection, I boggle at my own audacity. But Eugene is gone and so, if we mere mortals won't take up the challenge, who will? Marchant = Beefart. Sterkte.

Well met

Good thing then, that we were so restrained our criticism of the translation. As they say, "Always speak softly and sweetly, in case you have to eat your words." Regarding the "skadu" vs "skade" controversy, my own belief is that Marais introduced the play on words deliberately, in order to convey darkness and damage. I do not buy the "branders" (in any case, that means breakers, not waves) thing at all. It coveys nothing in the context of the poem; the Boer nation did not care much for the sea (or the coast) and Marais himself did not either; his only exposure to the ocean would have been his journey to England and the subsequent ill-fated return when he spent a long time in a fever-induced (perhaps also drug-induced?) coma on the Mozambique coast -- where breakers are non-existent for the most part. Responding (belatedly) to something you raised in your earlier post, I believe that the translator's most important task is first, to maintain a rhythm (it does not have to be the same rhythm) and secondly the rhyme -- provided that the intent of the content is not compromised. Once again, the content does not have to be the same, but the intent must be maintained.

Once again, well met. pietopper (talk) 19:48, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]