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The Signpost: 24 April 2022

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Requested copyedit of When Jews Were Funny

Thanks for copy editing When Jews Were Funny as part of the May GOCE copyediting drive. Here are some notes; please receive these constructively:

  • Wikilinks. I replaced the link to Cinema of Canada in the lead sentence, which I felt was useful, and removed a redundant link to Yiddish in the Synopsis section per WP:OVERLINKING.
  • You changed It features two dozen interviews with a wide variety of North American Jewish comedy professionals → The film features 24 interviews from a variety of Jewish comedians in North America. I think I like the film, but there are some other problems:
    • I don't feel that there was a good reason to change the format of the number. MOS:SPELL09 states that numbers which can be expressed in one or two words can be expressed in either numerals or words, and generally with copyediting we stick with the article's established style unless there is a good reason to change it (MOS:RETAIN). Also, 24 has more precision than two dozen (which may be taken as an approximate figure), so it changes the meaning.
    • Mark Breslin is the owner of a chain of comedy clubs and an associated talent agency, and not himself a professional comedian, thus 'comedy professionals'.
    • As the comedy professionals are the subjects of the interviews, I feel that interviews with works better than interviews from. From indicates a starting point, source or cause, which would seem to be the interviewer, production or location rather than the interviewees.
    • You might be right about the compound modifiers being unclear. I kept 'in North America'.
  • The film seeks to discover I'm not sure that we should give a motive to the film, in Wikipedia's voice without a source. Sometimes it's safer to merely state what can be plainly observed, "The filmmaker asks..."
  • Lead calls it "North American humor" but it's here as "American humor": which is it, and can it be made consistent across all mentions At least three of the interviewees are Canadian. However, American media don't often make the distinction (they are themselves summarizing it for a primarily American audience). I follow what the sources say, so in the body sometimes it's 'North American' and sometimes 'American' while the lead summarizes the body and uses 'North American'. I don't see a particular problem with that. Do you feel it's confusing?
  • his last ever filmed interview. Don't need "ever".
  • who is unenthusiastic as he is told → who appears unenthusiastic due to being told The word as is ambiguous, it can mean "because" or "while". As a copyeditor, you generally should change it to something less ambiguous but make sure you have the meaning right. Here, I think "while" is better so that we aren't doing any mind-reading.
  • Breslin compares comedy to "Jewish jazz" and states the rhythm ofYiddish has a comedic timing.
    • You move a reference in this passage to the end of the sentence. The reference breaks from what is attributed to Breslin to what is attributed to the interviewees in general.
    • Jewish comedy or comedy in general? – comedy in general.
  • What is a "proving ground"? Please replace with a more clear word choice. – proving ground. Was attempting to paraphrase, but perhaps this is a North Americanism.
  • When Jews Were Funny was produced simultaneously with Zweig's 2013 documentary, 15 Reasons to Live. He shot When Jews Were Funny while on breaks between 15 Reasons to Live and edited it after the editing for 15 Reasons to Live was complete. I feel that it's okay to abbreviate the titles in the second sentence; the reader should understand what is meant. Also, between needs two thing to establish a range, "in the middle of" might work, but I changed it back to the original "from".

Again, thanks for the copy edit, you smoothed out a lot of parts and called attention to things I'd missed. I'm not sure if I've satisfied you with respect to the [clarify] tags, let me know if you feel they need more work with the phrasing. (It's DYK review stalled, and I don't want those little tags to hold it up.) – Reidgreg (talk) 15:20, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

@Reidgreg: Hi there! Thank you for taking the time to write out the constructive criticism (I feel like review / criticism should be more common place in GOCE). My apologies that my c/e had errors, I'm continuously learning as an editor. I still hope it was of some value though. I'll reply to some specific points here:
  • I felt that 24 was simply more concise, but since it's meant to be taken as an approximate value, then "two dozen" is certainly better.
  • I still dislike the "The filmmaker asks" wording, as it feels more like a single direct question than a conceptual question throughout the film. Not a big deal though, of course.
  • About "North American humour," yeah, I do personally find it confusing. I feel that the article should be consistent throughout. Just because sources differ doesn't mean that it should be arbitrarily different depending on the passage of the article. Leads are the summary of the article, so it's illogical for the lead to state: The film features two dozen interviews with a variety of Jewish comedy professionals in North America, and explores the role of Jewish humour in the context of North American comedy. but the actual passage in the premise section to state, When Jews Were Funny is an exploration of Jewish-American comedy and its influence on modern American humour. Also, the article body does not mention "North American comedy" unless I'm missing it like you stated it does above.
    • Another option is to state the sources as they are, maybe through a note? Don't really like this idea though.
  • Sorry, did not realize proving ground was an actual thing, thought it was a phrase/idiom. I think a wikilink probably would have sufficed. funnily enough, if it is a North-Americanism, as a Canadian, I haven't heard it before.
Happy editing! — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 15:25, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
I agree, I'd like to see the GOCE do more reviewing, but we're all volunteers and it takes a lot of time and energy to review copy edits. For WJWF, I need a bit of a break before going back to it, but I think you're particularly right about the North American part being problematic and will think about a way to address that. Cheers! – Reidgreg (talk) 16:22, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
@Reidgreg: Did you hear of WikiProject Articles for creation's July 2021 Backlog Drive? They gave points for users that re-reviewed other AfC decisions. This incentivized people to re-review (here was my re-review page). This could maybe work for GOCE drives? Something worth considering. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 22:51, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, PerfectSoundWhatever

Thank you for creating Coin Coin Chapter Three: River Run Thee.

User:North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Nice work!

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|North8000}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~ .

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

North8000 (talk) 23:09, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Requesting c/e support

Greetings @ PerfectSoundWhatever,


IDK if you are okay to take c/e requests in draft namespace. Being not a native English speaker, my content expansions are usually dependent on c/e support.

The draft I am looking for c/e support is Draft:Ex-Muslim activism in Kerala

Pl do support in c/e as per your spare time and interest. I'll not mind if you happen to be busy either.

Thanks and warm regards

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 13:16, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

@Bookku: I will have to decline. Copy-edits make things say what they mean and mean what they say, but the article is fundamentally written in an unencyclopedic manner (essay-like). Due to this, I believe a surface level copyedit will not solve the issues of the article, and it's instead better to work towards making the article more encyclopedic. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 20:13, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Sincerely withing my linguistic capacity I developed it (it is well sourced). Beyond that I need support from some one else. I thought essay to encyclopedic conversion is part of c/e if that is not so do you know/ came across any users who can help do that? I will make request to such users,
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 23:13, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 May 2022

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:47, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
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