User talk:Pdmus

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Hello, Pdmus, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:

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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask for help on your talk page, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! Thryduulf (talk) 11:18, 26 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Peter Davison (composer) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Peter Davison (composer) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Peter Davison (composer) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Thryduulf (talk) 11:18, 26 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

COPYVIO

Please do not post links to images of copyrighted material. It is a violation of WP:COPYVIOEL. Koala Tea Of Mercy (KTOM's Articulations & Invigilations) 11:28, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Pdmus: I saw your comments about the newspaper being willing to help and that is great but in the meantime do not repost the dropbox links. You just made a great agreement with the newspaper, now respect their copyright while they do what they promised. If the article does get deleted in the meantime it can be brought back if the sources help solve the problems. As for the CD stuff just paraphrase/summarize the material. Non-web sources are acceptable but copying them verbatim is illegal copyright infringement. Koala Tea Of Mercy (KTOM's Articulations & Invigilations) 23:24, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

On your last edit you said: "The newspaper requires a subscription for articles over 6 months old for online reading and I have tried every method I know of and Wikipedia puts up a copyright infringement, removes the link. If you are interested, I can post the text and images in a .doc file." [bold added] ... No you cannot make such a post at Wikipedia. What part of "copyright violation" do you not understand? Copyright violation is ILLEGAL and will not -- legally MUST not -- be tolerated at Wikipedia ever. Posting a link to copyrighted material is ILLEGAL and doing so on Wikipedia makes us accomplices in your criminal actions. If you do it again the admins will have no LEGAL choice but to block your access to the encyclopedia. Koala Tea Of Mercy (KTOM's Articulations & Invigilations) 00:46, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I did not explain myself, sorry. Of course, I understand copyright issues. I meant that I would send the text to you, to see if you felt it would help with the deletion issue. Obviously, i would not post it on Wikipedia. Sorry for the confusion. I hope to learn how to create sources, as I put on your talk page. I do have one question - at the top of this section it says "Please do post links to images of copyrighted material." I do not mean to be snide or whatever, but is it supposed to say "Please do not...?" I found it confusing at first. I honestly did not realize that a link to a dropbox file was a copyright infringement. Thanks for your patience as I try to understand how to add sources.

Wow, good catch on the typo, yes it is supposed to say "do not". <bangs head on wall to get brain working again>

... Okay, fixed it. Now on to the rest of the stuff. Let's start with what you asked on my talk page:

In regard to the Idyllwild Town Crier article and the I Am the Center page on Davison, I have pdfs of each. Both the editor of the newspaper and the producer of the CD are fine with having them on Wikipedia, the newspaper is very busy and it may take them time to get the link prepared. I found the info about citing, footnotes and citing newspaper articles, etc. To be honest, it is new territory for me. My question is - do you think that footnoting, citing and linking the pdfs (on dropbox) of the article and the booklet page is a possible way to have the 2 pdf items on the P Davison (composer) page? If they are cited correctly as described in the Wikipedia instructions, they won't generate a copyright infringement issue?

Anytime you "copy" something that you do not own (or have legal permission to use) it is infringement. Under modern law writings are automatically copyrighted, and so are images, the moment they are created. Scanning a printed page into a file is making a copy (from print to data). Sharing a file by link is making a copy (from one computer to another). Typing the exact text into a word doc is making a copy (by manual process). Even taking a picture is making a copy. Only the original creator of the words and/or images has the right to make copies along with certain other rights (ergo the phrase "all copyrights reserved"). There are a few special exceptions. Here are two YouTube videos that help make it clearer: Simple and Detailed.

Wikipedia does have a formal procedure for getting permission from a copyright holder. See WP:PERMISSION for details. In the case of the newspaper I think they are very nice to help and set up a special link -- in return you should be extra careful to respect their legal rights and not infringe while waiting. As for the CD, that will likely need to go the formal route unless the copyright holder has an official company website that shows the full insert. HOWEVER...

Wikipedia definitely allows the use of real world paper sources as references, subject to the same reliability guidelines as online sources. Even though Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia, there is no distinction between using online versus offline sources. See the following two essays: WP:OFFLINE (even though this Essay is not an official Policy or Guideline it explains things pretty well) and WP:PAPERONLY (this Section is part of a larger Essay that explains defective (wrong) arguments some editors try to use for justifying deletion of content, a sort of "what not to do" on the subject).

If the current article is deleted remember that what is deleted can (usually) be restored by an admin under the right conditions. Deleted edits that break the law (like copyvio's), are defamatory (see WP:BLP), or endanger editors (such as exposing their true identity against their wishes) cannot be restored. Pretty much everything else can if you do it the right way. Learn about WP:Userfication and pay special attention to the sections on procedures. But read the next bullet first, it is very important...

Last but definitely not least: Relax and slow down! If it takes a while then it does. Rome was not built in a day and neither will Davison's article. Wikipedia is a complicated place and can be frustrating to navigate. If someone does something you do not understand get help to understand before you act. Two great places for new editors to get help are the Tea House (there is a link in the "Welcome" message at the top of this page) and for short & simple questions try WP:IRCHELP, a live chat room helpline. I strongly urge you to explore every one of the links in the welcome message above. It's a lot of information but Wikipedia is a big place with a lot of rules that must be respected if we are to avoid chaos.

Koala Tea Of Mercy (KTOM's Articulations & Invigilations) 15:28, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank You So Much for your Info. I plan on dedicating this day on this. (instead of painting, which is what I "should" be doing). It may have been a "good catch" (the word "not) but I must admit I sat and pondered for a while. Yes, Wikipedia is huge, I appreciate the dedication to accuracy and rights and I hope to learn how to add articles, award verifications, etc. to the page. Legally. And, against my nature, I will do this calmly....

Paul D. MusilierPdmus (talk) 19:38, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Pdmus: I think I remember you saying I should put this ping text before my next entry? I am currently typing to you calmly, as per your recommendation... I have at least added a reference section where I can cite the references/sources. In the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources there is a template for newspaper. There is also a template for linking to pdf. Since it may take some time for the newspaper to set up the direct link, my idea is to link the newspaper article dropbox/pdf using the newspaper template and adding something from the article to the bio with a reference to the reference list. I have also found an earlier article I could do the same thing with. Davison has received many awards, from many sources, which I have found online. These music/film award sites have many listings for various awards. I have made a jpg and a pdf of of one of them, to be able to test a link to his particular award. I would then add an awards list section, add links for each which would reference the reference list. These, again, will be linked to the dropbox/pdf, using the link to pdf template I see. The booklet from the I am the Center CD has 2 pages on each composer with text and pics. I have scanned the page on Davison, which is quite nice (I do understand the Wikipedia does not care whether it is quite nice...). This could also be referenced using the pdf template, with some sentences in the bio. Do you think this will work? Or will it generate the COPYVIO text? If I have to get permission for every single award, that is just too much for me! I hope your new college year starts off great.

Paul D. MusilierPdmus (talk) 20:34, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think you meant to put @Koala Tea Of Mercy:. -- Gestrid (talk) 20:07, 22 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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