User talk:Paullus

Discussion on List of Croats

Cold water 02:57, 10 April 2006 (UTC) Est-ce que vous parlez Francais? Vous dites qu'il y a pas de preuve qu'il soit ne a Korcula?

I think that there's probably more chances that he was Italian now that I've gone through all of this, but it doesn't mean that he was Italian at 100%

Oui, je parle français. Mais je suis né en Australie, mon français n'est pas parfait. Êtes-vous français?

Il n'y a pas assez de preuve. L'une ou l'autre manière il est certainement italien et non croate.

I would accept that it is probable that he was born on Korcula (as it is probable that Christopher Columbus was born on a Greek island "in" the Republic of Genoa as opposed to being born in Genoa, but that does not mean that Christopher Columbus was ethnically Greek, their is evidence for and against). But with Marco Polo there is very little evidence that he was born on Korcula, more evidence he was from Venice itself and even more evidence that he was actually Italian. The Polo family was is very significantly of Italian origin (actually from Piedmont originally, dating back to the 11th century).

Thank you for taking the time to discuss this with me. I think we have come to a good conclusion this way and I'm happy with the result if you are. I think it is more accurate if we leave it as "possibly" from Korcula under the heading where you placed it (Others). But I think we may be getting into a bit of hot water if we start to put Marko Polic as a possible name, as there is no proof that this was his original name.

Take care, Paullus 03:43, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

C'est pas clair non plus que Columbus etait Italien.

Theories about "Marco Polo as the Croat", connect him with Croats throught surnames Depolo, Polić or Pilić (transl. from Pollo), that appear among Croats, especially along southern coastal area. You have to take in count the italianisation of the surname.
BTW, recently appeared a theory that suggests possible Croat origin of Christopher Columbus. To shorten the story, there's a surname Kolumbić in small fishermen's village Sv. Nedilja on the island of Hvar in Croatia (Sv. Nedilja= Santo Domingo!). Kubura 07:26, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

And yet you ignore all the facts that point to the Italianess of his ethnicity and the fact that quite simply the unchanged named of Polo is extremely common in Italy and has an unquestionable Italian heritage. Wikipedia is meant to be NPOV. Please read the policies. That means that pseudohistorical theories (that are not accepted by mainstream academics) should not be included here. It is accepted that Marco Polo was ethnically Italian and possibly born on Korcula or Venice.

Columbus. So are you going to Slavicise his mother's maiden name too? (She was Susanna Fontanarossa, an Italian surname to say the least, of Italian stock and quite simply it translates as "Red Fountain"). Or are you going to tell me next that Da Vinci and Julius Caesar are really Croatian also?

Please, I have explained this before and gone to a lot of trouble to reference everything. Wikipedia is for Neutral Point Of View information only. Please read the policies. My apologies if I sound curt but I'm tired of repeating myself. Actually here below the edit box it states:

Content must not violate any copyright and must be verifiable. You agree to license your contributions under the GFDL.

It is not verifiable in acceptible academic terms that Marco Polo could have been ethnically Croatian. Paullus 07:38, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Dear Paullus, I just said "possible" Croat origin of Columbus.
Talking about Polo...If Venice had possessions on other sides of Adriatic, it is logical to assume that there's a possibility that some citizens of Venice could be of some other national origin, because Croats, Slovenians, Furlanians, Montenegrins, Albanians and Greeks were also part of La Serenissima's realm.
Having Italian-sounding surname doesn't mean necessarily that someone is Italian. Many persons that belonged to abovementioned peoples italianized their surnames, by adding Italian suffix (e.g. -eo instead of -ić), or by translating it into Italian (Bilić to Del Bianco), or by fonetizing it according to Italian grammar (e.g. Zlatoper to Slatoper), or even taking completely other surname (this could be seen from documents). Reasons were various. Kubura 14:26, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

But then your argument has not standing in the sense that it is just as easy to prove that they did not Italianise their surnames and that in-fact they were Italian all along. Many ethnic Italians lived in the Venetian Republic (in Dalmatia, Crete, Cyprus, Corfu etc.) and many of them were born to ethnic Italian families on those islands / territories. So it also possible that they were ethnic Italians born in territories within the realm of the Venetian Republic. Check out Euganeo's discussion, he's an academic of some sort and knows much more about it. Paullus 00:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Of course, many Italians migrated to other parts of Venetian Republic. That's why I use "possible" Croat origin. I don't deny any possibility of Polo's Italian origin, so, on the other hand, it won't be fair to deny any possibility of Polo's Croat origin (many things point to that, but not completely confirm that conclusion). Possibly Polo is both. We can put him in the list of Croatians, under subtitle "Persons of possible Croat origin". Kubura 09:01, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Now we don't need to beat around the bush. It is obvious that you are just being cocky. I mean Cold Water was able to discuss it in a friendly and reasonable manner. As I stated earlier, Wikipedia is not about posting pseudohistorical theories. The "Croat" theory is not attested to in any of the major works of historical analysis. Wikipedia is meant to expound facts and theories which are accepted by mainstream academia and published in widely accepted mainstream scholarship and academic works. The "Croat" theory is not attested to in any of these as a possible widely accepted alternate theory. If you are so convinced of your ideas you are free to create your own online website where you can present your hypothesis. However, leave Wikipedia out of this as it is not the place for these sorts of personal opinion type postings. Again, I direct you to look at the Wikipedia policies. Come on, I shouldn't have to keep repeating myself. Paullus 00:01, 18 April 2006 (UTC)