User talk:PattiWindSpirit

PattiWindSpirit, you are invited to the Teahouse!

Hi PattiWindSpirit! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia.
Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from experienced editors like Cullen328 (talk).

Visit the Teahouse

We hope to see you there!

Delivered by HostBot on behalf of the Teahouse hosts

16:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Karen Earle Lile (November 23)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by AngusWOOF were:

This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources.

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

The comment the reviewer left was:

Needs more external news sources to show notability. This reads like a CV / resume.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Karen Earle Lile and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Karen Earle Lile, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 18:29, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

COI notice

Hello, PattiWindSpirit. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:

avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization or competitors;
propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the {{request edit}} template);
disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest#How to disclose a COI);
avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see WP:Spam);
do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 18:30, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PattiWindSpirit, if you know Karen Lile either personally or professionally, you have a COI and should declare that. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 20:15, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

AngusWOOF thank you for your comments. Although I am new to Wikipedia as an author, I am not new to writing. I have joined Wikipedia to add important history to the articles that reference sailing and sail sport, because there is much that is left out. I intend to update many articles that are missing important references. I am a historian, and have access to publications that date back over the past 100 years. I also know many historians around the world that have source documents dating back, some as early as 1745 and I intend to ask them to contribute to the body of knowledge of wikipedia over the next few years. In answer to your question about Karen Earle Lile, I do not have a conflict interest. There are many of us who are, amongst the many millions of listeners to her Sail Sport Talk on Sports Byline show, know of her. And because Lile is prominent in leadership at the International level, she is known by most contemporary commodores of yacht clubs and yachting associations. I am also a part of a large yachting association that has more than a hundred yacht clubs as members. I have met Karen Earle Lile. But, I do not believe this constitutes a conflict of interest, because she is so well known in the yachting world. I derive no personal or monetary benefit from contributing this article. I sincerely appreciate your guidance in learning how best to contribute my time and knowledge to bring wikipedia up to date in reference to a body of knowledge that is only touched upon briefly in its articles. You will find that many more authors, at my request, will be searching their libraries for documents to enrich the body of knowledge on wikipedia in the subject of sailing. Hundreds of yacht clubs around the world, have private libraries and documents that contain valuable references and content that can be added to wikipedia. I appreciate your encouragement and guidance as I contribute. You will also find me adding the names of people to articles, who have not been included, who should have been included, especially women, disabled, people of minority races in a country where the majority often leaves them out. User:PattiWindSpirit

AngusWOOF thank you for your suggestions. I have spent many hours working on this and reading the referrals given to me. And I have been guided by your edits as well. I could add more third party references to the article, if requested. But, it seems to me that it stands on its own now. I await your review and suggestions.

A question about how many references are needed if some duplicate the content but are from different online publications

AngusWOOFI do have a question. I have been adding to the 35 references on the Karen Earle Article. This is the article where I am learning the best approach with references and writing, before adding other articles. There are several references to interviews that were done by Karen Lile and Rick Tittle of sailing celebrities listed in the article, but I have only added one reference per interview, the one that has a dedicated page on Sail Sport Talk.

But, because these interviews are broadcast on multiple completely independent platforms and the archives are held by those platforms (iheart radio, tune in, etc), I could add additional references for each interview. But, it would mean adding about 30 more references. I was just trying to touch on a representative sample and the easiest way to find the recordings is through Sail Sport Talk, because it embeds some of the archives from iheart radio and vimeo inside a dedicated page that has the title of the person being interviewed. In contrast, iheart radio only preserves the date of the broadcast under "Sail Sport Talk with Karen Lile", and not all the guests interviewed are mentioned in the written text. So someone reading the wiki article would need to listen to the interview to confirm it is a reference. By listing the SailSportTalk.com page for the person being interviewed, all the interviews are embedded and listed by the names of the people being interviewed, so it is quickly apparent that the reference is connected to the claim in the wikipedia article, without the reader having to go to a lot of work to confirm it.

Do you think this is necessary and recommended to add several references to each item on the page, just for showing the many platforms that archive the syndicated show and the breadth of its reach on the web? I am thinking it might be more references than needed for this article (and a lot of work). I was just trying to touch on a representative sample. I would be willing to do it, but only if you think it is necessary.

I would welcome your guidance. My intention in listing these references and interviews is to show the historical context of Karen Lile's work in the broadcast history for Sail Sport by mentioning just a few highlights. Other's could add to the article if they think something important was left out.User:PattiWindSpirit

PattiWindSpirit, we don't need a laundry list of celebs interviewed, just a representative sample as you said. You can then add the references at the end of the sentence. If there's an external news source that wrote "Lile has interviewed many experts in the field of sailing including (occupation) X, (occupation) Y, and (occupation representative) Z" then you can cite that source instead of her primary interviews. There's also a way to combine the set of interviews into one reference. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 17:05, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

shorter

As example of how much needs to be cut, I deleted all non-relevant content from the Lead. The rest of the draft needs the same sharp scissors. David notMD (talk) 13:42, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is this the right direction?

[u/David not MD/talk] I noted your changes and made some more of my own. Am I going the right direction with this?""

PattiWindSpirit. Better. However, refs 14-28 have little or nothing to do with Lile. And there is no need to establish the names of radio networks that carry Sports Byline USA. Having the Wikilink to the article about Sports Byline is sufficient. David notMD (talk) 07:47, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Most biography article have a section before career: Early life and education, and sections before the refs: Organization memberships, Personal life. These do not contribute toward notability, but help round out biographies. Must be referenced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by David notMD (talk • contribs)

The sports talk section needs to be condensed to the basic facts like: when she joined Sports Byline, her first broadcast - seems to be a segment of Tittle's show? , her first solo broadcast as a separate program on Sports Byline, format (weekly, daily), major folks interviewed, awards and recognition in the community. The sources backing this up should come from external news sources mainly, not from sports byline or her website. You can remove the stuff about how Sports Byline gets propagated through iHeart radio and other media. That's for the Sports Byline article and doesn't really have much to do with Lile, unless she's the producer / executive that helped promote the expansion of that brand. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 17:23, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The art director section should indicate when she joined USPS and highlight her major series worked on, including what ones have been recognized. If she is still an active art director for USPS that can be noted as well. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 17:28, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure this would help, but you can look at Jen Hale and Kelli Johnson articles as television sports talk hosts. Their bios are fairly concise as to their occupations, but have examples of good external news sources that cover their careers. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 17:32, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[u/AngusWOOF] I have studied your comments, and the articles you referenced, which were very helpful. Thankfully, there were many references to past newspaper articles on Lile's Piano Finder's business, which also led to other personal information about her. But, as you know, this takes hours to research and reference. Your suggestions and guidance have helped me write a much better article and show the breadth of Lile's work, which has been really interesting for me to research. Thank you for your help and experience. I am resubmitting this for review. And should you deem it worthy of an article, I will add photos, which I found when doing research. User:PattiWindSpirit

Your submission at Articles for creation: Karen Earle Lile (November 26)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by AngusWOOF was:

This submission does not appear to be written in the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia article. Entries should be written from a neutral point of view, and should refer to a range of independent, reliable, published sources. Please rewrite your submission in a more encyclopedic format. Please make sure to avoid peacock terms that promote the subject.

The comment the reviewer left was:

See my comments on your talk page regarding the Sail Sport talk show.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Karen Earle Lile and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Karen Earle Lile, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 17:26, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Advice

As a former sailor/racer (Sunfish, Lightnings, Tech Dinghies, Etchells), I advise you that for drafts, less is more. Rather than trying to document everything a person has done in their career, keep to the core that qualifies them as notable. For referencing, quality over quantity. Each reference should be content published in a reliable source that goes on about the person for some length; mentions-in-name-only just annoy reviewers. Ditto for over-referencing. David notMD (talk) 08:34, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with David notMD. Just get the most basic stuff in there with the references. And place her career in chronological order. It doesn't need to be embellished with details of every achievement. The Sail Sport Talk section one is better, but it doesn't need a full paragraph to detail that she legally owns the brand. Hosting community service events can go in the philanthropy and service section and should not be bullet listed like that. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 17:56, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Karen Earle Lile (November 27)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by AngusWOOF was:

This submission appears to read more like an advertisement than an entry in an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia articles need to be written from a neutral point of view, and should refer to a range of independent, reliable, published sources, not just to materials produced by the creator of the subject being discussed. This is important so that the article can meet Wikipedia's verifiability policy and the notability of the subject can be established. If you still feel that this subject is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, please rewrite your submission to comply with these policies.

The comment the reviewer left was:

Um, it was making progress, but why is there a highlighted bullet list in the middle that makes it look more like a resume?

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Karen Earle Lile and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Karen Earle Lile, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 17:40, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your thread has been archived

Hi PattiWindSpirit! The thread you created at the Wikipedia:Teahouse, How many references should I list for a particular item I am including in the draft "Karen Earle Lile" when there are archives on multiple platforms? Is listing a source on one platform enough?, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days (usually at least two days, and sometimes four or more). You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please feel free to create a new thread.

The archival was done by Lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} here on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:01, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Karen Earle Lile (December 25)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by AngusWOOF was:

Please note that SoundNotater has created a stub article on Lile and that Karen Lile should make edit requests from here on out at that article.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Karen Earle Lile and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Karen Earle Lile, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 16:22, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Concern regarding Draft:Karen Earle Lile

Hello, PattiWindSpirit. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Karen Earle Lile, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Draft space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for article space.

If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion under CSD G13. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it. You may request userfication of the content if it meets requirements.

If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available here.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 17:02, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]