User talk:Nuujinn/Slovaks in Hungary

repaired --Samofi (talk) 10:39, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

http://www.riskandforecast.com/post/in-depth-analysis/back-by-popular-demand_411.html 52% of Hungarian population is close to prejudices and chauvinism. So its citated in article and applied to Slovaks in Hungary. --Samofi (talk) 14:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

For Baxter9, this will my opion, but try to think. What is unreal in 163 000 slovaks in present Hungary in 1910 based on Matica Slovenska??? Look to Nagy Pallas Lexikon, how many Slovaks were in Bekescsaba, Nyiregyhaza, Budapest, Toth Komlos, Miskolc, Szarvas, Pitvaros, Pilis and Bukk mountains together??? In 1920 it was officialy 142 000 Slovaks = http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/7687/19828204530poto1origina.jpg Census was based on the language most comfortable for use... In all history of Slovaks in Hungary it was about 3-4x more people with slovak ethnicity as people with slovak mother language or nationality. In 2001: 11 000 slovak muther language, 39 000 slovak ethnicity, 110 000 according to Slovak organizations in Hungary, based on elections to Slovak self-goverment. About to Franch source: 163 000 x 4 = 652 000. So probably estimation was not so bad. I think it was neutral, true is between 163 000 and 630 000. We will never know because ethnicity was not in census in Hungary till 90ties --Samofi (talk) 14:29, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

repaired --Samofi (talk) 10:39, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Your thoughts are barren. This is Wikipedia based on reliable sources and not Samofipedia based on Samofi's oppinions. Nowhere is mentioned in that source that it is applied to Slovaks, that is your WP:OR. Please read WP:RS: "Sources should directly support the information". You added POV (read WP:NPOV) informations supported by non neutral and unverifiable sources (Národnostné menšiny v SR z hľadiska demografického vývoja (Matica slovenská Martin 1998) s. 12 work of the nationalist Matica Slovenska, and the text of a peace treaty Conférence de la paix 1919-1920. Recueil des actes de la conférence. Partie IV.), which contradict with my reliable third party English source, (Kirschbaum, Stanislav J. (March 1995). A History of Slovakia: The Struggle for Survival. New York: Palgrave Macmillan; St. Martin's Press. p. 153. ISBN 978-0-312-10403-0) written by a historian.

According to your POV source you keep re-adding, "only 163 000 Slovaks lived in Hungary, but their real number was 630 000. (in 1910)"

However according to historians: "Population statics show that in 1869 1,818,228 Slovaks lived on the territory of Hungary, and their number rosed to 2,008,744 in 1900. According to the 1910 census, 1,946,357 Slovaks lived in the Kingdom of Hungary."

So please add a source which suit into wikipedia's rules or I will remove the mentioned informations.--B@xter⁹ 14:34, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

And its not Baxters Magyaropedia. I used relevant sources, do you have problem with number 163 000? If you are not satisfied with Matica try to find better source. Something should be here, but my Hungarian is bad, so you can help constructively with article: GYIVICSÁN, Anna. A magyarországi szlovákság számadatok tükrében. In.: Magyarország nemzetiségeinek és a szomszédos államok magyarságának statisztikája (1910 – 1990). Budapest, 1994, s. 301-314.

I added my English source Samofi, dont you see it?--B@xter⁹ 15:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

You use one or 2 books to each article (Kirschboum and Kamunsela). You 5x cited one book, is it one source neutral? Is it neutral? I write with some admins, I will find time to report them about your contributions if you will not stop with disruptive edits. Documents from Paris conference are written by experts in that time, even if its not true I can use it. But where is true? People can see historical connections and manipulation with statistical datas from a both sides. Once it was written so it can be used, Iam sure in Budapest library you can find copy of document. This one it will not remove and I will fight for my true --Samofi (talk) 15:05, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't "use" 2 books Samofi. I am "using" a lot of published English books written by third-party experts, not like you who use only Slovak sources. "Paris conference are written by experts in that time" Please read wikipedia's citing policy again. Of course, "You can fight for your truth" or should I say you have to: "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds material". I added my reliable third party source written by a historian now I am waiting for your reliable English source which supports "your theory". ps: " I write with some admins, I will find time to report them about your contributions if you will not stop with disruptive edits." Please debate to the point and argument, these empty attacks are utterly counter-productive.--B@xter⁹ 15:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Conférence de la paix 1919-1920. Recueil des actes de la conférence. Partie IV. Paris 1929, page 30. Reliable verifiable. Relevant source neutral. This is from Slovak Ministry of foreign affairs: http://www.mzv.sk/servlet/content?MT=/App/WCM/main.nsf/vw_ByID/ID_DD6F67735A1B6F80C12576350033486B_SK&OpenDocument=Y&LANG=SK&MENU=staty_sveta-staty_podla_abecedy&TG=BlankMaster&URL=/App/WCM/karta_statov.nsf/(vw_ByID)/ID_8F49395C1210B60FC125707A0041FC68#bookKultVyAKr After Vienna arbitrage it was 270 000 Slovaks in Hungary and estimated population it was 510 000 durring WWII.

http://ec.europa.eu/education/languages/archive/languages/langmin/euromosaic/hu6_en.html

http://www.mfa.gov.hu/NR/rdonlyres/9F2D180E-538E-4363-AA5E-3D103B522E3B/0/etniang.pdf

In present is 110 000 estimated Slovaks acording to slovak and hungarian sources.

Hungary behave to Slovaks as to nationality, and not as to ethnicity, slovaks has hungarian nationality but they are slovaks by ethnicity, hungary not support them: http://www.mercator-research.eu/minority-languages/Language-Factsheets/minority-languages-in-education-in-hungary not enough schools, its not number of schools for 110 000 people, its schools for 18000 people. Monolingual schools almost not exist. Did you read about bilingval schools, how works in Hungary? All in Hungarian and voluntary Slovakian language 4 hours in week. Do you know about school system for Hungarians in Slovakia? So dont say about slovakization in present time. You wrote sources about re-Slovakization and CS-HU population exchange. paris conference is reliable historical source --Samofi (talk) 16:38, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

lot of authors say that census 1910 in autria-hungary was falsificated: http://books.google.com/books?id=a3fm4Fpj8dQC&pg=PA61&dq=hungary+1910+census+manipulation&lr=&hl=sk&cd=1#v=onepage&q=hungary%201910%20census%20manipulation&f=false It was 300-400 000 slovaks magyarized - in source so official number of slovaks was 300-400 000 bigger. --Samofi (talk) 17:25, 16 May 2010 (UTC) http://books.google.com/books?lr=&hl=sk&q=hungary+census+manipulation&btnG=Vyh%C4%BEad%C3%A1vanie+kn%C3%ADh your author added sources from censuses whose are with hundred scholars declared as not reliable. so what now? we must see a both sides. hungarian point of view and slovak. --Samofi (talk) 17:32, 16 May 2010 (UTC)