User talk:Nigew

Welcome to Wikipedia from the Wikiproject Medicine!

Welcome to Wikipedia and Wikiproject Medicine

Welcome to Wikipedia from Wikiproject Medicine (also known as WPMED).

We're a group of editors who strive to improve the quality of content about health here on Wikipedia, as part of the larger mission of Wikipedia to provide the public with articles that present accepted knowledge, created and maintained by a community of editors.

One of our members has noticed that you are interested in editing medical articles; it's great to have a new interested editor on board!

First, some basics about editing Wikipedia, which is a strange place behind the scenes; you may find some of the ways we operate to be surprising. Please take your time and understand how this place works. Here are some useful links, which have information to help editors get the most out of Wikipedia:

Everything starts with the mission - the mission of Wikipedia is to provide the public with articles that summarize accepted knowledge, working in a community of editors. (see WP:NOT)
We find "accepted knowledge" for biomedical information in sources defined by WP:MEDRS -- we generally use literature reviews published in good journals or statements by major medical or scientific bodies and we generally avoid using research papers, editorials, and popular media as sources for such content. We read MEDRS sources and summarize them, giving the most space and emphasis (what we call WP:WEIGHT) to the most prevalent views found in MEDRS sources.
Please see WPMED's "how to" guide for editing content about health
More generally please see The five pillars of Wikipedia and please be aware of the "policies and guidelines" that govern what we do here; these have been generated by the community itself over the last fifteen years, and you will need to learn them (which is not too hard, it just takes some time). Documents about Wikipedia - the "back office" - reside in "Wikipedia space" where document titles are preceded by "Wikipedia:" (often abbreviated "WP:"). WP space is separate from "article space" (also called "mainspace") - the document at WP:CONSENSUS is different from, and serves as a different purpose than, the document at Consensus.

Every article and page in Wikipedia has an associated talk page, and these pages are essential because we editors use them to collaborate and work out disagreements. (This is your Talk page, associated with your user page.) When you use a Talk page, you should sign your name by typing four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your comment; the Wikipedia software will automatically convert that into links to your Userpage and this page and will add a datestamp. This is how we know who said what. We also "thread" comments in a way that you will learn with time. Please see the Talk Page Guidelines to learn how to use talk pages.

Thanks for coming aboard! We always appreciate a new editor. Feel free to leave us a message at any time on our talk page. If you are interested in joining the project yourself, there is a participant list where you can sign up. You can also just add our talk page to your watchlist and join in discussions that interest you. Please leave a message on the WPMED talk page if you have any problems, suggestions, would like review of an article, need suggestions for articles to edit, or would like some collaboration when editing!
The Wikipedia community includes a wide variety of editors with different interests, skills, and knowledge. We all manage to get along through a lot of discussion that happens under the scenes and through the bold, edit, discuss editing cycle. If you encounter any problems, you can discuss it on an article's talk page or post a message on the WPMED talk page.

Feel free to drop a note below if you have any questions or problems. I wish you all the best here in Wikipedia! Jytdog (talk) 01:05, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Warning 1 - sourcing

Please do not add or change content, as you did at The Cambridge Diet, without citing a reliable source using an inline citation that clearly supports the material. The burden is on the person wishing to keep in the material to meet these requirements, as a necessary (but not always sufficient) condition. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. Jytdog (talk) 01:06, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Warning 2 - SOCKING

If you are the same person as the IP editor, please note that you should not edit while logged out, and then come back and edit while logged in, to try to force a change. See WP:SOCK. Jytdog (talk) 01:07, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Warning 3

Your recent editing history at The Cambridge Diet shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Jytdog (talk) 01:07, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You are clearly very out of date with your information and suggest you do some proper research before coming across all heavy handed. The Cambridge Diet is not even called that anymore! Neither is it 415 Calories a day Nigew (talk) 01:22, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That may or may not be true, but you need to bring reliable sources for changes you make, and you cannot force policy-violating changes into WP. If you want help, please ask for it. Jytdog (talk) 01:31, 16 February 2017 (UTC)s[reply]

Sources and updates

You have google done you? go google 'Cambridge Diet uk' and see where that takes you. Oh look its called Cambridge Weight Plan. Surprise! So how about updating that bit? Nigew (talk) 01:37, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps while you are at it, you can update the information that Cambridge Products were used in the following trials: - Christensen P, Riecke BF, Bliddal H, Leeds AR, Astrup A, Winther K, Christensen. Improved nutritional status after a weight loss formula diet: A cohort study exploring safety in a randomised controlled trial. Obesity Reviews 2010; 11 (suppl 1): 247 (T3:PO.81).

Christensen R, Leeds AR, Lohmander S, Christensen P, Riecke BF, Sørensen TJ, Gudbergsen H, Aaboe J, Henriksen M, Boesen M, Astrup A, Bliddal H. Efficancy of dieting or exercise vs control in obese osteoarthritis patients after a clinically significant weight loss: a pragmatic randomized controlled trial. Obesity Reviews 2010; 11 (suppl 1): 248 (T3:PO.83).

Riecke BF, Christensen R, Christensen P, Leeds AR, Boesen M, Lohmander LS, Astrup A, Bliddal H. Comparing two low-energy diets for the treatment of knee osteoarthritis symptoms in obese patients: a pragmatic randomized clinical trial. Osteoarthritis and Cartilage 2010; 10/1016/j.joca.

Philippou E, Neary NM, Chaudri O, Brynes AE, Dornhorst A, Leeds AR, Hickson M, Frost GS. The effect of dietary glycemic index on weight maintenance in overweight subjects: a pilot study. Obesity (Silver Spring). 2009 Feb;17(2):396-401. Epub 2008 Dec 4

Harman NL, Leeds AR, Griffin BA. Increased dietary cholesterol does not increase plasma low density lipoprotein when accompanied by an energy-restricted diet and weight loss. Eur J Nutr 2008 Se;47(6):287-93. Epub 2008 Aug 26.

Hajifaraji M, Leeds AR. The effect of high and low glycaemic index diets on urinary chromium in healthy individuals: a cross-over study. Arch Iran Med 2008 Jan; 11(1):57-64

Philippou E, McGowan BM, Brynes AE, Dornhorst A, Leeds AR, Frost GS. The effect of a 12-week low glycaemic index diet on heart disease risk factors and 24 h glycaemic response in healthy middle-aged volunteers at risk of heart disease: a pilot study. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2008 Jan; 62(1):145-9. Epub 2007 Feb 21.

Nigew (talk) 01:45, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Those are published sources but they are not OK for Wikipedia. This is explained in the stuff I wrote above. I get it that you are passionate about this diet, but if you want to work in Wikipedia you need to slow down and learn how this place works. Again if you have any questions I would be happy to help. Jytdog (talk) 02:17, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Are you not even going to change the name to the correct name? Nigew (talk) 03:28, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oh that's interesting. There is an explicit commercial/branding thing going on here that the article doesn't get it to. Yes the article definitely needs to discuss money making aspect of this. Will add that stuff. Thanks Jytdog (talk) 03:36, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.dsa.org.uk/dsa-events/stars-of-direct-selling-awards-ceremony/ Yes the Company (Cambridge Manufacturing) uses trainied 'consultants' who have to have succesfully used the diet before being allowed to train to help others. 'Help' is one-to-one unlike other companies that have large groups. Top earners are celebrated through internal and external businesses Nigew (talk) 04:02, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is an up to date review by a Dietitian "meal replacements can help people lose weight and keep it off but it’s important to remember that most study participants received additional dietary advice" http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/diet/meal_replacement.htm Nigew (talk) 04:13, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The importance of one-to-one counselling... "Most nutrition experts recognise that if meal replacement products are to be effective at keeping the weight off in the long term, it’s essential to provide education and support on healthy eating when meal replacement products are no longer used" Cite error: A <ref> tag is missing the closing </ref> (see the help page). "significant weight loss, reduction in blood glucose profile and improvement in cardiovascular risk profile, high tolerability and good safety outcomes"

References

-- Nigew (talk) 04:40, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You will like this one... lol Exercise is not good for weight maintenance. ^[1]"Anti-obesity drugs, meal replacements, and high-protein diets were associated with improved weight-loss maintenance after a VLCD/LCD period, whereas no significant improvements were seen for dietary supplements and exercise"

References

^ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24172297

-- Nigew (talk) 04:49, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your notes. I am looking for independent, reliable, secondary sources that discuss the business aspect. There is some stuff here from the UK grouo and other stuff here from a US group (which I got to from here which led me here, but the company websites are poor (not independent) What would be ideal would be newspaper articles that just report on what has happened with the businesses. Am still looking. Are you aware of any? Jytdog (talk) 15:24, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am not aware of anything online as the company predates that. There were two main books that told the history from different angles. One aimed at health professionals and the other to the general public. On opening, or soon after being released to the public, the USA was deemed too large a market to be managed by a start up. The USA diet license was sold to entities in the USA with strict bindings to only sell within that country. The UK retains the rest of the world license and is sold through country distributors who emulate the UK mode of distribution. Because of the license differences and each country's government requires its own nutritional standard There is a huge difference in what makes up the diet. This is stark between the UK and EU markets. The US still has the lower 415 Calorie products. The EU has a completely different formula with differences in every aspect of the formula's constituent parts. In recent times the UK business undertook a management buyout which has now turned into an employee owned business. The delivery of the programmes has remained the same in the UK. But is in stark contrast to the US market.You may be able to find the books by Dr Alan Howard on Amazon or eBay. ^[1] and here ^[2]

References

--— Preceding unsigned comment added by Nigew (talk • contribs) 17:50, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the book refs but as I said we prefer independent sources. That is what I am looking for. Doesn't have to be online. One can get newspapers articles from around the world at a library. Jytdog (talk) 17:59, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You are seriously wanting to create an unbiased online definitive resource into one of the most respected diet companies around based on Newspaper clips!?! You are seriously barking mad. I have checked other diets similar to Cambridge in Wikipedia; (exante, slimfast etc) and it is blatantly obvious that your editing is extremely biased against Cambridge. It is plain that you do not know what unbiased is Nigew (talk) 21:19, 16 February 2017 (UTC) Where is the Wiki on Lighterlife?Nigew (talk) 21:20, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

For everything in WIkipedia, we want independent, reliable sources. For content about health (describing the diet and if it is safe and effective), "reliable sources" are defined in WP:MEDRS. For non-health matters, like the business matters, "reliable sources" are defined in WP:RS. In both cases, independent. And sure newspapers are fine sources about business matters. But I am done trying to teach you. Good luck. Jytdog (talk) 22:22, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24172297

[2] ttps://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Cambridge-Diet-Alan-N-Howard/0552127973/ref=sr_1_fkmr3_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487267187&sr=8-1-fkmr3&keywords=Dr+Alan+N+Howard+Cambridge

[3] ttps://www.amazon.co.uk/Cambridge-Diet-Alan-N-Howard/dp/0954655702/ref=sr_1_fkmr3_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1487267187&sr=8-2-fkmr3&keywords=Dr+Alan+N+Howard+Cambridge

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