User talk:Nc1701

December 2009

Welcome to Wikipedia. The recent edit that you made to the page Talk:2008 South Ossetia war has been reverted, as it appears to be unconstructive. Please use the sandbox for testing any edits; if you believe the edit was constructive, please ensure that you provide an informative edit summary. You may also wish to read the introduction to editing for further information. Thank you. FASTILY_sock^(TALK) 10:53, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

FYI

You are suspected of sockpuppetry, which means that someone suspects you of using multiple Wikipedia accounts for prohibited purposes. Please make yourself familiar with the notes for the suspect, then respond to the evidence at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Nc1701. Thank you.

You have been blocked indefinitely as a sock puppet. (blocked by –MuZemike 17:12, 5 January 2010 (UTC))
You may contest this block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}} below, but please read our guide to appealing blocks first.

HELP!!!

I was involved in this case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Nc1701 It went by so fast, I did not get a chance to respond. Below is my response, please tell me where I can post it. Thank you in advance!

Our accounts are unrelated - that is exactly what Allison found out The arguments were old, and many were repeated several times and I just repeated previous arguments from another angle I was following the article, but did not feel a need to comment until now. Is it a crime to follow the article? The arguments I made came from the links that were posted on the discussion page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:2008_South_Ossetia_war#2008_South_Ossetia_war.3F.3F.3F in bold. I apologize that Xeeron left this detail out of his report. About a third of my arguments was copy paste, and the rest ware describing the copy paste. Xeeron claims that one needs to read all 31 archive pages. However I know that this link summarizes everything: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:2008_South_Ossetia_war/Archive_24#2008_South_Ossetia_war In a previous vote, 12 out of 12 neutral editors went with the 2008 South Ossetia War argument - clearly it has some merit.

I do not know who Billy Mays is, but I don't see how his arguments demonstrate "deep knowledge" as Xeeron assured us it would:

His first argument is a common sense statement that just because the government believe it is unbiased, does not mean that it is actually unbiased, and he cites the treatment of African Americans, and does a Google Search. I don't see what is so deep about that. His second argument is that Abkhazia was De Jure Georgian and De Facto Independent prior to this war. That is stated in the first paragraph of article The fact that Kodori Valley was bombed is shown on the map, the very first map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2008_South_Ossetia_war_en.svg. His last argument is a summary of this section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:2008_South_Ossetia_war#2008_South_Ossetia_war.3F.3F.3F

My arguments came from archives. My arguments included massive copy paste. Arguments of Billy Mays came from the tip of the article: common sense, google search, first paragraph, article map, summary of first section on talkpage.

Finally I ask you to listen to your common sense: why would I need a sock puppet to make a discussion edit? The sock on my talkpage did not scare me off, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fastilysock, and his removal of my edit was undone within the hour. Why would I need to get another sock? Where is the logic? Nc1701 (talk) 11:30, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

To answer your question: People make sock puppets because they either want to circumvent a block or topic ban (and several people are blocked or topic banned from that particular page) or because they want to make one side look more strongly represented by using different names to argue for it. Both could be the reason. --Xeeron (talk) 15:06, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

NC1701 had neither blocks nor topic bans. It was also not a vote. There was only person person topic banned from that specific page, and that was me. I have never used sock-puppets, but have nevertheless been accused by you and Biophys of using sockpuppets. How do I know this? You said that the person you are check-usering is not on your side, in 2008 South Ossetia War, and is banned. I'm the only one who fits the profile, simple process of elimination, piece of cake. Additionally, the arguments made by NC1701 were much stronger than those made by Billy Mays.

So, can you give some insight why you chose to edit that talk page as your very first edit? How you, having no edits so far, became interested in that particular talk page? How you managed to discern which editors are "neutral" without following that article for a long period of time? Why another new editor did almost exactly the same at the same time? Why your editing style look so alike and different from other people at the talk page? --Xeeron (talk) 15:03, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Xeeron, this is not the Spanish Inquisition. This is Wikipedia. It is not a crime to start your first edit, on your first article. That's how everyone starts editing Wikipedia. You already had NC1701 checked against me, so now you have confirmation that we are two different users. Discerning which editors are neutral is painstakingly easy: you look at their edit history, and in under 30 mins, I can tell you. It might take a new user longer, say a period of 5 hours, but it definitely doable in day. Maybe if you asked nicely, instead of getting the user sock-puppet banned, the user might have answered you. Honestly, you're being extremely rude to a new user, just because the user has a position you disagree with. You have already threatened me, don't take it out on the new user. When I was new, you did the same thing to me, here's another user summarizing it: "I just wanted to say thank you. I asked to remove the ad, which morally offended me, in the section, and you did. It stayed that way not very long, but that still made a difference for me. I'm sorry that, as a result, it got you under Xeeron's fire. I think that you were right, and his attack was unjustified. But, thank you, again. I appreciate, that there is someone, who understands that ads should have nothing to do with war and death. 212.192.164.14 writing from 217.8.236.137 (talk) 11:03, 19 October 2008 (UTC)"

Here's your threat to me: As a personal note, this ends the title discussion for me and I hope not to spend any further time on this. I will also not forget HistoricWarrior007's actions during the vote. --Xeeron (talk) 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC) Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:2008_South_Ossetia_war/Archive_24#Results. Quite frankly Xeeron, you have to accept that there will be people on Wikipedia who disagree with you and make better arguments, and you have to learn to deal with it, and not turn it into an inquisition. In your quest to go after me, as promised above, you managed to get two new editors sock-puppet banned. You claimed:

Both new accounts entered a long, old and controversial discussion on the name of 2008 South Ossetia war as their first and only edits. Both entered on the same side and used similar reasoning and discussion style. Both demonstrated a deep knowledge of the previous discussion ('which is mainly buried in the lengthy archives') and cited wikipedia rules. The chances that two new users at the same time decide to read up on wiki rules and to dig through 31 archive pages to write a lengthy talk page rebuttal of the same user seems remote.

NC1701 countered: My arguments included massive copy paste. Arguments of Billy Mays came from the tip of the article: common sense, google search, first paragraph, article map, summary of first section on talkpage.

So Xeeron, please tell, what exactly is mainly buried in lengthy archives? The first paragraph of the article? The map? The talkpage?

Here is what happened: my topic-ban was expiring, and you saw two new editors making what appeared to be similar posts. You instantly thought they were my sockpuppets. Using your position as an experienced editor, you quickly filed a report, with a fallacious statement, claiming that the first paragraph of the article and the map were "mainly buried in the lenghty archives". The trial was quick. You found out that you were wrong, and that I have no sockpuppets. Additionally, NC1701 wants to appeal. So you come in here, being rude to a new, fellow Wikipedian, completely ignoring Wikipedia's "don't bite the new users" policy, and turned this into an inquisition. "Why that article? Why that edit?" - why do you care?

Greetings NC1701 and welcome to Wikipedia. Let me help you appeal this thing. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 03:42, 10 January 2010 (UTC)