User talk:Myloko

Kuniko Kanawa issue

Hello, Myloko. I know you've had troubles with ms Kanawa (I found your blog entry on Deviant art), but I would like to explain to you the main principle of Wikipedia: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that provides as much information as possible, not some place contributors use to fight someone. Ms Kanawa is a certified master and she had kindly provided her consent to put her words in Kanzashi article under CC 3.0 license. She is considered an authority in kanzashi crafting, thus her opinion is valuable to Wikipedia.

Unexplained text deletion is considered vandalism in the Wikipedia, therefore your actions are highly inappropriate. I advise you to refrain from Kanawa pursuing, otherwise I would be forced to report on your actions to the administrators. Kf8 (talk) 19:17, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Rebuttal

Hello, Kf8. My issues with Ms. Kanawa are that she is not a certified master or anywhere near certified to be a creator or teacher of kanzashi, thus making her a fraud. She actively goes around the internet telling people that only "certified" people can create kanzashi and that people who are not certified are diluting the craft of kanzashi. It has been known that she does this to promote her own brand while calling the rest of us inferior and knock offs for better sales. Maybe if Ms. Kanawa went to Japan instead of pretending to be Japanese in America, she would see that kanzashi is a widely promoted homecraft and that there are many books that teach regular people how to make kanzashi along with many craft stores that carry the materials and accessories to make their own kanzashi. These books are not written by masters nor "certified" experts, but people who enjoy kanzashi and want to show others how easy it is to make their own. Many of the people on the internet kanzashi groups, including myself, are self taught who had to learn through pictures and practice. I myself actually learned Japanese in my university so that I could order kanzashi books from Japan, read them and understand the methods better. In turn, my friends and I create guides in English for people who cannot read Japanese but want to learn the craft of kanzashi.

The best way to explain this situation is to use the example of crochet here in North America. There are thousands of books produced on crochet and there are classes taught by tens of thousands of others to teach people how to crochet. There are no "certified masters" or even "certified teachers," but rather people who want to teach the love of a craft to others. The principle of this is to pass on the knowledge of the craft to a future generation. By using this example, Ms. Kanawa is telling others that they cannot make their own kanzashi and that since she is self-toted as "superior," she wants the kanzashi craft to stay in Japan and die with her in America.

The most hypocritical issue with Ms. Kanawa is that she is apparently making her own kanzashi tutorial book in English. Why would she want to show others how to make kanzashi if she won't allow the people reading them to actually make them? People need to understand that she is filling the internet with false information in order to promote herself and that her claims of any "mastery" is a gaint case of fraud. The last time I checked, taking a few classes from a person who knows how to make a craft does not make one a master. If that were so, I would be a master in ikebana, origami, and tap dancing. Myloko 20:45, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

The issue here, I believe, is mostly within "certification". Ms Kanawa actually is a certified professional (you might see the photo with her nameplate with the rank on her site and several interviews with her in popular Japanese newspapers; her father is listed on the National Japanese Treasures site). But that is not the thing I wanted to tell you. I know her reaction may seem overwhelming, but to understand it, we have to look through the iemoto system.

You know for sure Iwasaki Mineko's story and the fact she left the profession because of the dictate of her dancing school iemoto. It might seem harsh, but in Japan you must be almost a slave of the master to earn your qualification. It looks strange, I know, but if Yachiyo Inoue IV did not allow you to use a specific fan during the dance that is of her school, you must not. Mineko-san didn't fit into the system, she wanted to dance the way she liked it, but the strict iemoto system doesn't allow any changes, except for what the master said.

My guess is: Kanawa-san wants kanzashi to be widely recognized art, but she doesn't understand why people call it "kanzashi", not "amateur kanashi". I tried to explain her that this difference is obvious in Japanese language, but English just does not function the same way. I think, it just can't be helped (仕方がない). Of course you are free to add some text to the article, if it is e. g. a somehow paraphrazed article from a book about kanzashi, to explain the situation in English-speaking countries, but you should know why Kanawa-san is so concerned about the name of the art. And of course you should not delete her text. Let's write about this problem together, so Wikipedia would contain all the points of view, from the worst glued polyesther kanzashi artist to the very best masters of this wonderful art. Kf8 (talk) 06:08, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

I'd love to see these articles about her because I've never been able to find a single one before you mentioned it. Are you aware of how many people in Japan have the last name of "Kanawa"? Saying that it is her "father" still means nothing. If he's a living national treasure then why did she grow up in America?

I am well versed in the iemoto structure, however, to become a master takes much longer than any training that Ms. Kanawa ever had. On the subject of geisha, Mineko Iwasaki left the life of a geiko not because of dance, but because she felt that she was above the rules and wanted to change the traditions of Gion Kobu. Since no one else wanted them to change, she left of her own free will and had every right to do so. Because of that, she is still banned from going to Gion Kobu to this day for her attitude while she was working and her book that came after.

What baffles me the most is exactly how Ms. Kanawa can call herself a master with such shoddy, overpriced works. Looking at her attempts at maiko kanzashi is a complete and utter joke for someone who calls themself a master. They're too large, too plain and no maiko would ever wear them (or pay those ridiculous prices!). If I wanted kanzashi done by a master I'd go to Ikuokaya or Kintakedo in Kyoto. They are both supplied by real master kanzashi artisans who make real maiko kanzashi for a fraction of what Ms. Kanawa charges. Myloko 05:33, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, of course you can see all of this: her teacher and his nameplate as Living national treasure, articles about Ms. Kanawa in Nikkan Sun, Cultural News, her press releases etc. It's easily found in Google. I've made my own research as I am highly concerned about Ms Kanawa, I am not her representative in any way.

Also, I'd like to point out that Edo tsumami kanzashi differ from the ones maiko wear. Edo tsumami kanzashi is the art of Ichikawa city which is located in Chiba prefecture, not in Kyoto. Thus, technically speaking, Kintakedo, Kazurasei or Ikuokaya's kanzashi also are not Nationaly Designated Handicrafts. Kf8 (talk) 09:09, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

When looking at the articles, most of them are about her Etsy store or the exhibition that she staged in order to popularize herself. That exhibition gave people in America a horribly amateur view of maiko kanzashi and have the public believing that real maiko would actually wear items of that poor quality.

As for more issues, her teacher is stated as female on her site, but male in her store. Besides that, her entire page on maiko/geiko/other entertainers of the Edo period is almost all wrong. Maybe she should read some books on the Edo Period and the karyukai to understand what was really going on. I think some editing needs to be done on her site, both for accuracy and grammar.

On the topic of Edo Tsumami Kanzashi, that title refers to the fact that the craft was invented in Edo, which is now modern Tokyo. From there others were taught the trade and they spread throughout the country. Just because the masters don't live in Tokyo doesn't mean that they don't produce Edo Tsumami Kanzashi. Have you ever been to or seen the National Handicraft Museum in Kyoto? There's many examples of Edo Tsumami Kanzashi on display; the majority of them being maiko style pieces. Maiko and geiko are the ones who made the craft of Edo Tsumami Kanzashi popular and spread the fashion trend throughout the country. Without them, the craft would never have survived. Even if Ms. Kanawa deemed that maiko do not wear "Edo Tsumami Kanzashi" then why are there photographs of maiko all over her site advertising them as the main wearers of Edo Tsumami Kanzashi? Myloko 01:17, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

She has multiple teachers, as far as I know, in dancing schools people also are taught by the master and by some regular teachers. Her masters Hozumi Kazuyo and Hozumi Minoru both are nationally designated ("My first master was in 60's, the other master was in 50's when they became nationally designated." - that is what she wrote me once). Although it is not clear to me if they are her parents (my guess from their family names analysis, she had never claimed it). Here is the link on Kazuyo-sensei's profile on the site of Ichikawa city. He is called a 伝統的工芸 person, and he is seen on photos with Ms Kanawa. Also you can see that his kanzashi do look like the ones made by Ms Kanawa and they do differ from the ones made for maiko. And here you can see both her masters listed as 市川の伝統工芸: 穂積実 and 穂積和代.

Ms Kanawa is just trying to make the business the way Japanese people do. She is not always polite (from European POV), but as far as I can see, she is not a liar, thus her opinion is valueable to Wikipedia. I won't tolerate any advertising on WP (ie: the text that she proposed to publish in the first hand was heavilly changed to neutral POV), although we must have some links to amateurs' sites, so if you might add any info from a book or an article about amateur kanzashi makers to Kanzashi page - it'll be a pleasure. Kf8 (talk) 07:12, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

That sounds more than fair. My biggest issue is that Ms. Kanawa tries to promote herself over everyone else, even going so far as to claim that everyone but herself is a fraud. If she wants to be successful in an English or Western market she needs to be careful with her language and create a friendly, down-to-earth atmosphere. As it stands right now, her business statement written on both her website and Etsy store make her seem snobby and alienating. If she was to make a connection to the Western crafters then she might have a much warmer reception and better sales. I know that the first time I made an edit on the Kanzashi page was to remove her sales promotion and return the page to a neutral reading article.

I hope you don't mind, but I edited the spelling/grammar in your last post. Myloko 03:31, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

August 2016

Hello, I'm Nihonjoe. I noticed that you recently removed some content from Geisha without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 07:20, 26 August 2016 (UTC)