User talk:Mordoch66

Previously wrong claim that Japanese government did not know about Opium War and the outcome and treaties signed until 1853 or 1854

Why a source was citing "Nishiyama, Kazuo, Doing Business With Japan: Successful Strategies for Intercultural Communication. University of Hawaii Press. pp. 2–3." for the claim Japan did not know about Opium War and the outcome and treaties signed until 1853 or 1854, this is strongly contradicted by other available sources including ones that apparently cover the period in much more detail. (And either was a misinterpretation of the source or the source was simply mistaken on this point.)

"Akamatsu, Paul (1972). Meiji 1868: Revolution and Counter Revolution in Japan. Harper and Row" specifically noted on pages 82-83 that Japan's government was getting updates on what was occurring in China and the situation as early as 1839 and was specifically receiving updates from communications with the Chinese and the Dutch, and in fact promptly reacted to the eventual outcome by 1841 "with stupefaction." The source notes that there was in fact an immediate reaction and some effort at particularly military reform even if the immediate impact of those efforts was limited. (Pages 82-85)

The same book notes that in 1844 the Dutch sent the Japanese government a note specifically referencing the defeat of China and advised them to abandon their closed limited trade procedures to more general trade policy (page 86).

The idea Japan did not know earlier is also contradicted by how the same book notes earlier that as part of their earlier agreements to still trade with Japan under restricted conditions "Every year Chinese and Dutch had to send the governor of Nagasaki bulletins on the principal facts of international life." The Japanese government also examined these bulletins carefully to keep up to date with what was happening in the outside world (page 43). That these sources would not have provided some awareness of the Opium War earlier does not make sense.

It is also worth noting that the current Perry Expedition page with its own sources makes no mention of knowledge of the Opium War being a new revelation after first visit by Perry. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Perry_Expedition&oldid=1122138347

It is possible many of the details of the Opium War were still news to some degree for some Japanese government officials who had not been paying attention, or further information about the details during this period did influence decision making. However the idea this was truly new information simply does not make sense given what other sources say of the period. Why I edited the article to be more accurate concerning this issue, I am still leaving the older citation in place for the moment in case it backs some of the other claims made in that part of the article even though it may contain serious misinformation concerning this specific issue. Mordoch66 (talk) 02:18, 26 November 2022 (UTC)