User talk:Moabdave/Archive 2

Utah interstate shields

Oregon has recently got its own personalized interstate shields, and upon seeing them, they're a heck of a lot similar to how they're made in Utah. Example, Image:I-84 (Oregon).svg. I've been thinking about asking the author of the image to make similar ones for Interstates 15, 80, and 70 but I wanted some input first. What do you think? CL — 01:09, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. You might post something at WT:UTSH or revive this discussion Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._Roads/Archive_13#Interstate_issues_again......... to get more opinions. Dave (talk) 05:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Combining certain NV SR articles

Dave, I've given a bit more thought to your suggestion of combining articles on short NV state routes in urban areas. I've been thinking about this since an editor is going through and moving state route articles in Las Vegas to their common names...although the state route designation and street name information don't totally mesh, in my opinion. It seems the SR info can be removed from these articles and replaced into one article--that way, these editors can create articles on any road they choose without blurring the differences between SR and street information. So this would entail most of the 500-699 routes primarily in Las Vegas, Reno/Sparks, and Carson City (with probably a separate page for each area). I believe some other state route projects have some similar pages for similar instances. Since you first suggested it, I wanted your thoughts. Thanks, --Ljthefro (talk) 01:04, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with your ideas. I think another thing to consider is how much CAN be written about a road. NV-604 of course should have its own article, NV-430 probably too. But we aren't every going to find much official information about some of these short urban streets, and I think they should be combined into a list of "mini-articles", The Pennsylvania roads project is one that does this I believe New York too.Dave (talk) 18:57, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I concur with what you're saying. Thanks for the feedback Dave. I'll start working on this when I have the time. --Ljthefro (talk) 07:48, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Re:History

No worries, you were in fact right the first time. I-15 wasn't built over existing pavement, so US-91 would have been the better choice. Thanks Dave - CL — 20:15, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

GAs

Hi, I am currently helping another Wiki project adopt the GA system. I have a problem understanding the use of:

Copy this for the edit summary: "Nominating [[ArticleName]]" - from WP:GAN on How to nominate an article

What is this used for; isn't # {{la|ArticleName}} ~~~~ enough? Thanks in advance. diego_pmc (talk) 16:54, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

The # {{la|ArticleName}} ~~~~ is the most important part. The edit summary is more of a courtesy to aid in repairing malformed requests, fixing vandalism, etc. Dave (talk) 19:49, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

USRD participants list

As discussed at WT:USRD, the participants list at WP:USRD is being split by state. Due to any of the following factors- your extended participation in WT:USRD discussions, your IRC participation, or your extended participation in Shields or Maps, I have guessed that you are a nationwide editor and have designated you as such in the USRD partiicpants table. This is part of the lengthy process. If this is in error, please let me know immediately. This is especially likely with this group as I have to guess whether you are a national or a state editor. Regards, Rschen7754 (T C) 21:59, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

M-35 FAC

		The Michigan State Highways Barnstar
		Thank you for your review and support. M-35 passed its FAC. Imzadi1979 (talk) 02:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Hours of service

It passed FA review! Boo-yah. This is only the second trucks-related article to achieve FA status (the other is Winter service vehicle). You know, I was thinking the other day... nobody has vandalized any of my pages. Is that a good or bad thing? Actually, I created a new article Old Tjikko the other day and someone inserted some gibberish at the bottom, but other than that... nothing. Anyway, happy edting. --ErgoSum88 (talk) 03:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock and Ayr Railway

Hey there, I think that Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnock and Ayr Railway is ready for you to take another look at. I've sorted all the problems except for the one with the 'Modern Railways' reference: I can't find the exact source for that at the moment so I have temporarily removed the sentence until I can get it. No rush for you to look at, it just whenever you have time. Thanks. --- Dreamer ⁸⁴ 09:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

GAC Iran-Contra

Hey, thanks for such a thorough GA review at Iran-Contra affair. I will begin working on the list of recommendations as soon as I can, which will most likely be tomorrow. I will notify you when they are completed. Again, thanks! Happyme22 (talk) 01:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I have completed your list of tasks at Talk:Iran-Contra affair/GA1. I have either marked the item with a checkmark, signifying its completion, or I have commented on it. I hope you take a look. Again, thanks so much for such a great review! Happyme22 (talk) 22:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Word choice?

I think in this revision, the word you're looking for is "formerly", not "formally". One comes from former, meaning in the past; the other comes from formal, the opposite of casual. I haven't reverted yet because I'm not entirely sure of your intention, figured I'd give you the benefit of the doubt and a heads up. -- Kéiryn (talk) 14:19, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey, Dave

Hey man, I've been wondering if I could get some help. I've been working on Utah State Route 269 and I know think that it's at least up to B-class status (I've flagged it for reassessment). I want to maybe get this up to GA but I'm not sure what to do, so since you have so much experience dealing with GAs I wanted to know what I could do for now without going through the review process. I know what I'm requesting is nothing small so if you don't have time, it's all right. Cheers - CL — 01:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Actually I'm not an expert writer. In fact I suck at it. I am just now getting several articles up to GA status, but lots of help from others and after many revisions.

The best advice I can give is to get somebody to review your articles. This can be as formal as using some of the review processes and wikiprojects within wikipedia (WP:Peer Review, WP:LOCE, etc) or just asking a friend, as you just did. Fair warning, the formal review processes are often backlogged, there are more editors than reviewers on wikipedia. I have found them to be good if you are patient. No matter how you do it, the point is to get another set of eyes to look at your work as other people will see mistakes that you will miss.

The "perfect" wikipedia article conforms to the WP:MOS (Manual of Style) at every detail. I say this tongue in cheek, as the MOS is a work in progress itself and even contradictory in spots. That's the nature of the beast when a project is run by thousands of volunteers. It's a lot to swallow at once. My advise is to go for a GA review/FA review, and as people chew you out for not complying with the MOS, read that section and learn. =-) Take all feedback graciously. Even if somebody is ripping your work to shreds they are taking the time to read your article and help you to make it better. Also, once you've been through the GA process once or twice, you should start reviewing other articles. I've found its a little like bartering, the more of a good review you give others, the more willing others are to review your work.

As far as Utah State Route 269 is concerned. It's definitely a B. I do see some problems with it if you want to go for GA.

• WP:LEAD - this section of the MOS has guidelines on how long the lead section should be relative to the rest of the article. The lead is a little long and should be max two paragraphs. Or make the article longer =-)
• Also per the MOS, use bolded text sparingly such as the article title, alternate titles (that redirect to this artile) etc. Rarely should text be both bolded and linked to another article. You will need to choose between bolding and linking on Martin Luther King, etc. If you notice my lone FA (so far =-) ) Interstate 70 in Utah there is no bolding in the lead paragraph. That was intentional because I had to choose between bolding Interstate 70 and linking Interstate 70 to comply with the MOS, I chose to link as that was more important.
• WP:Sources - Unfortunately personal websites (such as Dan Stober's excellent website) are not allowed on FA class articles. For GA articles it depends on who reviews your article. Some people will not allow it, others may say, yes it's a personal website, but it looks credible and let it slide. However, even if it passes GA review with a personal website as a source, if you want to take this to FA, you will need to find a different source. This does NOT apply to external links, and you could use Stober's website as an external link, even on an FA class article. What I would advise is do search old newspaper articles and see if you can fine another source. Google's News Archive has been a lifesaver for me, even though you only get a couple of paragraphs for free and have to pay if you want the entire article.

hope this helps. Good luck on the GADave (talk) 02:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I've just done what I could do for now. As for the sources, I doubt I could find two paragraphs of any newspaper that are as detailed as Dan Stober's lengthy article on SR-269, so it all depends on who's reviewing I guess... if the reviewer doesn't like the source, I'll try finding something though. Thanks for that link. I'll begin the GA review process when I get access to DSL, dial-up does get irritating at times. Thanks again - CL — 02:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Midland Trail

SR-30 was in fact the original Midland Trail: [1]

As for the dead link (stateroutehistory.pdf), this was published by UDOT, but is no longer online. I saved it from that URL in July 2007, and have used it for information that does not appear in the other PDFs. --NE2 21:17, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I have asked a question at Wikipedia talk:Citing sources#Dead link guidance. --NE2 21:24, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

By the way, [2] (1918) shows that, while the Midland Trail had already moved to the Lincoln Highway, the Pikes Peak Ocean to Ocean Highway used SR-30. --NE2 21:30, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, since UDOT still has the records, it is similar to citing a paper document that has not been put online. --NE2 21:31, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The following is from the 1913-14 biennial report; I will add a reference to it to the SR-30 article:

In May, 1912, a road to pass west from Snowville through Park Valley, Rosette and Lucin to the Utah-Nevada line was designated as a State Road. At the following session of the State Legislature, an appropriation of $15000 was made to help in the construction of this road. This appropriation was part of the "Midland Trail" building fund, the Midland Trail being a proposed highway entering the State through Grand County on the east, thence through Emery, Carbon, Utah, Salt Lake, Davis, Weber and thence west through Box Elder County around the north end of Great Salt Lake.

--NE2 21:33, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

According to the Ogden Standard, June 26, 1913, "the trail north of the lake and on through Nevada is incomparably better than that across the salt marshes and sand wastes directly west from Salt Lake to Ely". Remember that road construction was still in its infancy; of course there was probably also bias in that the north route would serve Ogden. It was probably the Lincoln Highway's choice of the direct route that convinced the Midland Trail to move. --NE2 21:42, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification. That is inconceivable that somebody would want to take this route to LA, this is at least a 300 mile detour if not more. But the Ogden Standard does provide the context as to why. I strongly suspect there was politics involved also, as the Arrowhead Trail would be a much better choice and would also avoid the salt marshes.Dave (talk) 21:49, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

For some more early history, see [3]: the early trails were mapped out by A.L. Westgard, Director of Transcontinental Highways of the National Highways Association, who apparently concentrated on east-west trails first, and thus did not follow the Old Spanish/Arrowhead Trail. The Arrowhead Trail was not organized until 1916. If you can get access to the Utah Historical Quarterly from 1999, it has an article about it: [4] --NE2 22:04, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I just noticed that the earliest Nevada state highway maps take SR 1 to Utah on present SR 233, obviously because the Wendover Cutoff was not considered feasible. This was in fact the San Francisco-bound route of the PPOO (until 1924, when they moved their west end to LA essentially via I-70 (SR-10, SR-11, SR-13) to I-15). It's not a bad route to get to the Humboldt River route, and was popular in the mid-19th century as the Salt Lake Cutoff of the California Trail (whose main route went via southeastern Idaho). Check out this old bridge with "Ocean to Ocean Highway" painted on the side (no, I don't know where it is): [5] --NE2 17:21, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

US-40 followed 2100 South

See [6], page 5 of [7], and [8] (big JPEG). All show US-40 on 2100 South, and all but the first show US-40A on SR-186 (which was not added to the state highway system until 1935, nine years after US-40 was signed). As far as I can tell, US-40 originally followed SR-4 all the way, via present SR-201, SR-111, SR-171, US-89, and 2100 South from west to east. Once the Lake Point Junction-downtown road (then SR-67) was built, US-40 was moved to follow present I-80, North Temple, US-89, and 2100 South, while US-50A remained via Magna (and was later moved to SR-201 east of SR-111). It was not until the mid-1960s that US-40 and US-40A were swapped east of US-89, taking US-40 along current SR-186 to Parley's Canyon.

Since I do not have enough sources to be entirely sure of the above, I did not give details. But US-40 definitely did use East 2100 South for about 40 years. --NE2 00:52, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I've got maps that contradict the history as currently written, including a different edition of the same map hosted by utexas.edu cited above. Unfortunately, I can't find a publication date on my version of this map to see when it was published, however it is obviously more recent then the edition they have.

I was wrong to hastily change that, and I apologize with the assurances I will be more careful in the future. Some events have come up that are severely limiting my wikipedia time. Once, these issues are resolved, I'll try to reconcile the maps I have with the online ones you have listed. In my defense, I know the 1926 map used as a source just before I made my hasty edits is in error. It is showing proposed routings that were never constructed.

BTW: on the lighter side, It's "21st south". You say 2100 South to a Utahn and they'll promptly respond "Boy, you ain't from around here". =-) Dave (talk) 03:52, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict)For the record, I've been in Utah for all my life and for me, it's just "21st" (there's a big difference between, say, 7th East and 7th West and people usually know what you're talking about even when you omit the directions). I wish Utah would just give their streets real names and get it over with. Besides, I thought you were from Nevada anyway :P CL — 04:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

If you'll give me a private means of contact (email, instant message, whatever) I'd be happy to discuss where I'm from. I think I've disclosed too much personal information on wikipedia anyways, so I'd prefer not to do it publicly.Dave (talk) 04:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I was joking about the Nevada thing, I swear I remember seeing that you were from there somewhere. But anyway, I don't need to know where you are, I was just commenting on a bit of typical Utah life. By the way, thanks for your congratulations, I appreciate it. CL — 04:25, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that the 1926 map is not the best; what it is good for is showing the pre-1927 numbering (1-17), of which all but 17 remained post-1927. I also agree that at some point US-40 did move to SR-186 and US-40A moved to 2100st South. I have compiled most of what I have at Wikipedia:WikiProject Utah State Highways/SLC streets, but since UDOT used the state routes internally until 1977, and I don't have too many old maps with enough detail, information on the U.S. Routes isn't great. --NE2 05:22, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

As for the naming, what do Utahns call roads like 260 West or 7755 South? :) --NE2 05:27, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, streets like those usually have a name (such as Kensington Avenue or Denver Street) associated with the number, as they are minor, 25-mph type residential streets. You may even find names such as Magic Wand Drive in new developments in Draper where they are apparently losing ideas for names. Also, for streets such as Kensington and Denver, it's not practical to refer to them by number as they change positions in the grid system numerous times, so one minute Kensington Av may be 1560 South, the next, it's at 1550. By the way, sorry if I'm intruding Dave. CL — 05:42, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

No apology necessary. I was going to say essentially the same thing. You don't hear those street names often, they are minor streets. But the dropping of the last two zero's on major streets is almost universal.Dave (talk) 05:56, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

"Right bank"

"Right bank" is a standard term for the right side in the direction of flow. It's especially useful on winding rivers like the Colorado. --NE2 06:26, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

SR-128 history

There's a bit about earlier history (1919-1923) at U.S. Route 6 in Utah#Utah Valley to Colorado that you may find useful. --NE2 22:38, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow, I never knew that the midland trail went through that many routings. Thanks. My internet time is limited right now. When things get back to normal I'll work this in.Dave (talk) 03:16, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

You may also find it interesting that it once used part of the old D&RGW grade north of the San Rafael Swell mentioned in the I-70 article :) --NE2 07:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Here you go

		The Utah State Highways Barnstar
		I know this is quite belated, but I think this is a token of gratitude that you deserve because you have given UTSH its first (and so far only) featured article, along with the GAs US-50 in Utah, SR-128, US-163, SR-279, and US-491 (is that it?). Good job, keep it up. CL — 04:45, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Accessdate

I actually downloaded all the PDFs on May 18, but I don't think it's necessary to give the exact day. --NE2 05:36, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Needs of Reverts

Why you undo all my changes. They were constructive; i just made one mistake which I didn't know, because I never been to utah. I went to fix the to just Mile the same as other 49 states besides California. When people drives on freeways they definitely don't care about what the sign is (green most of the time with white text), and they don't even pay attention to the numbers. I have spent alot of time trying to fix those junction lists to bring them closer to WP:ELG.--Freewayguy ^{Call? Fish} 01:03, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I didn't undo all your changes. I undid changed to 3 articles that resulted in a link to California postmile on a Utah State Route, with an explanation that postmiles are only used in California, they are not used in Utah. I believe you that this was an honest mistake, and know your intentions were good.Dave (talk) 02:22, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Sego, Utah

I've started an article on Sego, Utah. Noticed it's on your to-do list. It still needs a lot of work, so any contributions would be welcome. Ntsimp (talk) 21:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Awesome, Thanks. I've been there and have pictures I could donate to the cause. Also, I've got a book titled "Utah Ghost Rails" that discusses Sego from the POV of the Ballard and Thompson Railroad. Keep jabbing me. I'll get around to it.=-) Dave (talk) 21:49, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, that's funny—I have Utah Ghost Rails too, and I didn't even think to look in there. Well, whenever you have the chance. Ntsimp (talk) 21:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I uploaded two pics. i have a pic of the stone house mentioned in the article, but unfortunately it would require photoshop to remove people that are in the photo.Dave (talk) 07:41, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. They really add to the article. Ntsimp (talk) 14:19, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

RfA thank you

		Thank you!
		Moabdave, it is with deep awareness of the responsibility conferred by your trust that I am honored to report that in part to your support, my request for adminship passed (87/14/6). I deeply value the trust you and the Wikipedia community have in me, and I will embark on a new segment of my Wikipedia career by putting my new tools to work to benefit the entire community. My best to you, Happyme22 (talk) 03:19, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Infobox changes

Hey, Dave. I changed the road infobox for Utah since we have two lists of routes. I'm notifying everyone because after all, we're all going to be seeing it. Check it out, what do you think? CL — 06:30, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Beginning / End

Could you alter those on the list that I have botched? I get going on the list, and start editing, and sometimes forget to look at the map. -- Admrb♉ltz (t • c • log) 01:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I made the fixes as well as a few other changes. If I hosed anything or misunderstood your intent, you know what to do... (i.e. revert and tell me to buzz off =-) ) Dave (talk) 02:34, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Looks good to me :) Now I just need to add the last 4 route descriptions and cite the former routes :p then off to FLC possibly. --Admrb♉ltz (t • c • log) 02:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Adams Avenue Parkway at PR

Please comment at Wikipedia:WikiProject Highways/Peer review/Adams Avenue Parkway if possible. Thanks! --Admrb♉ltz (t • c • log) 07:51, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Re: ACR

That's weird, when I took an article to ACR, I was told to link the first mention of all units. However, that article hasn't gone to FAC yet, so that may just have been one person's misguided suggestion. Good luck with the sources for Utah. The article is oh-so-close. -- Kéiryn (talk) 21:20, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Congrats on the A-Class promotion :) --Admrb♉ltz (t • c • log) 21:09, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks that one went so slow I was about to start pulling hair out.Dave (talk) 02:07, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

If only everyones concerns were as easy as mine? :p --Admrb♉ltz (t • c • log) 03:41, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Utah State Route 68 (PR)

Could you make any suggestions/comments on the peer review before I suggest the article for GA? Thanks! --Admrb♉ltz (t • c • log) 06:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

California' exit list issues

You say Golden State Freeway should definiely have an exit list. Should i-5 duplicate it, or just say See Golden State Freeway by linking it. i-5 is a state-wide highway and for Orange County we ahve at least 50 exits total, and copy-and paste stuff is not that easy. The problem with showing 2 exit lists, is we have to update two, and most people will frequently forget to update two, when they only update one.--Freewayguy ^{Call? Fish} 20:14, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

US-491

Well, Dave, you've done it again. Another featured article for UTSH! Good job, and good luck making that April Fools' Day nom a successful one CL — 00:17, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Contrats! --Admrb♉ltz (t • c • log) 00:38, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Guys! Dave (talk) 00:43, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations on the FA. I look forward to seeing that on the MP! –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 12:08, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations on the FA, I know how hard they can be (and still fail). Anyhow, I noticed your suggestion for the article to be used as the Wikipedia:April Fool's Main Page/Featured Article. Would you propose the main page text for the article, and provide a link to the proposal so others can evaluate its funniness? Remember, the devil and number of the beast (666) are Christian concepts that many people around the world will not be able to relate to. Royalbroil 02:19, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I was hoping to get some help with the humor part, asking a roadgeek to be funny in describing a road is like asking a math professor to be funny while teaching algebra =-) However, here's a first draft: User:Davemeistermoab/sandbox. Dave (talk) 03:04, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I understand (I was a math major!). That's pretty funny! Would you add a link to your proposed summary at Wikipedia:April Fool's Main Page/Featured Article. Be aware that you might need to leave that link up until March/April because responses are usually quite slow there, so maybe you want to find a more permanent home for the summary (maybe a subpage under the article or on its talk page?). It might even more powerful to title the article under its former name, U.S. Route 666. I don't understand the line "is general proof that they just do things differently there" and it sounds non-encyclopedic. Otherwise it reads quite well. I'm sure someone will help spice it up a bit if you propose it there. After this, let's please keep this discussion at the main discussion place instead of hard to find on our/your talk page(s). Royalbroil 15:38, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Moved to here U.S. Route 491/main page blurb Dave (talk) 02:18, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

thanks!

You're very welcome, Dave. Keep up the high quality and the state bureacrats and construction companies might use them as a resource. You may consider trying to forge an ongoing telephone/email relationship with one or two professionals in those institutions; announcing that you promote their work through the seventh-most-popular Internet site in the world is always a good entree. Why bother? Because they might be willing to offer advice, or make available documentation about, say, planning or technical challenges, or interesting features, that is currently unavailable. With their permission, you could enrich your articles with this additional layer of information. Think of aiming for a Featured Topic eventually? Tony (talk) 02:56, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Phan Xich Long

Hi Dave, I've implemented the changes you mentioned in your review. I also added some more background to teh article which may enhance the interestingness of the story (hopefully). Blnguyen (bananabucket) 05:19, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!

I appreciate the barnstar (and yeah, it was about time I got my own). Congratulations on SR-128 passing FA, and that image that you say helped the FA pass? Not a problem CL — 04:30, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Utah State Route 68 FAC?

Dave, CL said I should poke you — care to give 68 a once-over and see if shes ready for FAC? Thanks! --Admrb♉ltz (talk) 03:26, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

201 as 40A/50A

Got proof for ya here. Page 6 of the 201 highway resolutions doc. --Admrb♉ltz (talk) 06:50, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Utah Wikipedia Meetup

Interested in attending a Utah Wikipedia Meetup?
If you are interested in a Utah meetup, please visit Wikipedia talk:Meetup/Utah and voice your interest. Not in the Utah area? Check out other meetups around the world!

--Admrb♉ltz (talk) 22:23, 15 September 2008 (UTC) via AWB

Crescent, Utah

Hello. I just created a page on I'll Take You There by Joyce Carol Oates and she mentions a place called Crescent, Utah. I got your talkpage from the page for Crescent Junction, Utah, I hope you don't mind - I thought you may be able to help. However, I think they may be two different places. Google has pages on Crescent, Utah [9] and more specifically perhaps here [spam://www.onlineutah.com/crescentsaltlake.shtml], so it's probably not a fictional town. Would you be able to find more info and create a page, possibly add some pictures? That would help me a lot in terms of literature.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:13, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

It was a small community in the Salt Lake valley [10] that is now part of Sandy, Utah. (the article briefly mentions it) Until about 1985ish this area was rural, then development exploded.Dave (talk) 20:16, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Perhaps you could redirect Crescent, Utah to Sandy, Utah if there is not enough info on the 'small community' itself? I would however advocate creating an article depending on how much political/cultural sway the community had. Although Oates's novel was published in 2002, it is set in the 1960s.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:22, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

U.S. Route 395 in California

Can you really say 395 traverses the Sierra? Eeekster (talk) 18:01, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

It's a work in progress, once I get the article expanded I'd like to nominate it for GA. I'm aware I made some grammar boo-boos, and there's some slop to mop up. If you have a better way to word it, or any other ideas, by all means...Dave (talk) 20:22, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not complaining. Just wanted to point out the change made 395 do something it doesn't do ;) Eeekster (talk) 23:42, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Response to NBSP

For the record, I know the function of nbsp since I used to write HTML. Anyways, I removed nbsp when convenient because personally I don't see why should there be a nonbreaking space between "US" and "395". But then again, I don't see anything bad about adding nbsp so I might as well just let you do your thing. But thanks for rewriting the US 395 article, by the way! Must eat worms (talk) 00:00, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

This is why I like UT and our dashes … now is it an – or a —or a - … --Admrboltz (talk) 02:27, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I use the basic hyphen.Dave (talk) 03:26, 20 September 2008 (UTC)