User talk:Mindbuilder

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Reversion - Ryan Reynolds

Hi

Whether or not people discussed what to put in the lede, the fact still remains it is too long.

Please see the guidelines I pointed you to.

Thanks Chaosdruid (talk) 21:00, 26 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at the guidelines in [WP:LEDE](only a guideline by the way). What part do you think suggests the Garner lede is too long?

[WP:LEDE] starts out: "[The LEDE page] in a nutshell: The lead should identify the topic and summarize the body of the article..."

Then: "The lead serves as an introduction to the article and a summary of its most important contents."

And: "The lead is the first part of the article that most people will read. For many, it may be the only section that they read." [this is why I think the most important points should be squeezed in there if possible]

"As a general rule of thumb, a lead section should contain no more than four well-composed paragraphs..." [The Garner lede currently has 4] [Emphasis added]

And from the length section: "The length of the lead should conform to readers' expectations of a short, but useful and complete, summary of the topic." [Emphasis added]

"It should...summarize the most important points,..." [Emphasis added]

One of the most common complaints about the incident was that the cops and EMS just let him die and didn't do CPR. So I think one of the most important points is that they immediately took some care to ease his breathing(by rolling him on his side) after realizing he was unconscious, and explain why they should not have done CPR.

You might be interested to know the timeline of Garner's care as can be determined by the videos. It is clear, though not obvious, from the video, that Pantaleo had his arm around Garner's neck for 15.3 seconds. Clearly that chokehold/headlock was not primarily what killed Garner, regardless of what we know about the medical examiner's conclusion, as he was not only still alive, but still conscious and talking after the chokehold/headlock was released. From when Pantaleo's arm first went around Garner's neck, to when they finished handcuffing him was about 1 minute and 20 seconds. Seems slow, but they reportedly had some difficulties due to his weight, and ended up having to use two pairs of handcuffs. About 10 seconds later they can be seen pulling Garner up on his knees to get him to walk. They obviously didn't think or realize he was in any great distress until then, or they wouldn't bother trying to get him to walk. When they realized he couldn't walk, they laid him down and immediately rolled him on his side to ease his breathing, and presumably called for an ambulance at that time. About 4 minutes and 10 seconds after they laid him down, the first ambulance personnel are seen arriving. That seems like a reasonable response time for the ambulance. However, it then takes about 2 and a half minutes for the stretcher to arrive. I'm not sure why that took so long, but it was reported that the ambulance had to park a long distance down the block due to traffic. The EMS may have been told over the radio that Garner was breathing and may not have planned taking the stretcher until deciding whether Garner needed transporting to the hospital. They try to talk him into getting onto the stretcher, but when he is unresponsive, they start putting him on the stretcher about 10 seconds after it arrives. It takes them about 1 minute and 10 seconds to get him on the stretcher and start rolling him away. That's almost 4 minutes from the arrival of EMS till they start rolling him away. That seems too long to me, but I've personally seen paramedics here check out a person with chest pains for about 30 minutes before deciding to take them away. I don't know why they take so long. Mindbuilder (talk) 07:21, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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