User talk:Milonica/Archive 5
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Poking the bear
I appreciate your support and your input on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/KUSW but, um, "why not nominate KSUT, or KNMI (FM) or even KSJE"? Since the nominator and a couple of the other respondents are seeking to make a WP:POINT, please don't poke the bear. Please? (Thanks.) - Dravecky (talk) 03:56, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- Sorry, its just frustrating to see a good article get nominated for deletion.--Milonica (talk) 04:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- I totally agree, I just didn't want to have to save three more tonight. Thanks for unpoking. - Dravecky (talk) 04:39, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- I wasn't trying to make a point - I was AfDing a prod which my adoptee (see below) got declined. At the time it wasn't a good article - but I'm happy now that it's been expanded! I hate to see stubs for stub's sake! Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 06:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- And I'm always happy to improve a radio station article, when I can. I do wish the AfD had been allowed to run its course instead of being withdrawn "without creating a precedent for future discussions" once the tide had turned in favor of keeping the article. A request to speedily close as keep would have ended the discussion as quickly without potential for the appearance of gaming the system. - Dravecky (talk) 08:01, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- I wanted to add to the afd that other radio station articles are meager compared to what KUSW looks like now. I wish we could get every radio station article to look like that one. Any takers? I'm trying to improve local stations I have access to information from (from Salt Lake City, Utah and stations in Wyoming,) but there are a few thousand others I wish could be as good. It'd take long hours but eventually they could be there. milonica (talk) 08:08, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- I've been working for more than a year to do just that, most recently in the Category:Radio stations in Alabama and selected other articles that find themselves in the spotlight. I've punched up KNMI (FM) and KSJE and am in the process of trying to improve KAOR but many hands, they say, make light work. - Dravecky (talk) 08:43, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- I wanted to add to the afd that other radio station articles are meager compared to what KUSW looks like now. I wish we could get every radio station article to look like that one. Any takers? I'm trying to improve local stations I have access to information from (from Salt Lake City, Utah and stations in Wyoming,) but there are a few thousand others I wish could be as good. It'd take long hours but eventually they could be there. milonica (talk) 08:08, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- And I'm always happy to improve a radio station article, when I can. I do wish the AfD had been allowed to run its course instead of being withdrawn "without creating a precedent for future discussions" once the tide had turned in favor of keeping the article. A request to speedily close as keep would have ended the discussion as quickly without potential for the appearance of gaming the system. - Dravecky (talk) 08:01, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- I wasn't trying to make a point - I was AfDing a prod which my adoptee (see below) got declined. At the time it wasn't a good article - but I'm happy now that it's been expanded! I hate to see stubs for stub's sake! Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 06:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- I totally agree, I just didn't want to have to save three more tonight. Thanks for unpoking. - Dravecky (talk) 04:39, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- (de-indent) Whew! I've spent a big chunk of my day so far on KSUT I think you'll find at least a slight improvement in the quality and depth of the article. - Dravecky (talk) 19:41, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Hey there! Glad to see you participating in the discussion at the talk page Talk:KUSW. I would ask that you try and be extra-nice around my adoptee, Panyd. She's quite new on Wikipedia, and took umbrage to you saying that 'deleting the article would open a can of worms'. I'm sure you didn't mean it offensively, but she doesn't have a thick skin yet. Thanks! Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 06:43, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I see what you mean. I have left an apology on her page. I didn't mean to come across as offensive by any means, I have just put a lot of hours into radio station articles, and I guess I've become pretty picky with them. Thanks for the heads up. --milonica (talk) 06:52, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- Out of interest, I've read NeutralHomer's comment and he seems a bit defensive, which I suppose is understanadble given all the flak that WPRS gets from admins. He - or possibly someone else, I don't recall, used the wattage of the station as an argument. Could you give me some rough examples, perhaps, of wattage? Is 20 watts big, or 200, or 2,000? Does it go up to 20,000? I'm not a US citizen, so I don't pretend to understand these things! How far out does a 200 watt transmitter generally go? Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 07:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- You'll have to excuse my crude estimates as I am no radio engineer myself, but 1 watt will get you a few miles on FM under good conditions. 20 watts is enough to cover a town and then some. 200 watts will get you probably 30-50 miles (again this is all on FM). 100,000 watts will cover a hundred miles or so on FM. On AM, things get much different. 1 watt will probably get you about a mile or so. 200 watts is enough to get a good signal 30 miles-ish. 50,000 watts (like KKOB for example) will get you a whole state depending on a number of factors. The higher the power, usually the farther the signal can be heard. Power (and on FM ERP) really has nothing to do with making a station notable in my opinion. What makes it notable for me is that it has a license issued by the FCC. --milonica (talk) 07:12, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- I'm sorry my proposed deletion caused such a stir but at least the article is bigger now! I just read that page and thought it meant the article should be deleted - sorry I didnt understand! The muffin is not subtle (talk) 07:19, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- You'll have to excuse my crude estimates as I am no radio engineer myself, but 1 watt will get you a few miles on FM under good conditions. 20 watts is enough to cover a town and then some. 200 watts will get you probably 30-50 miles (again this is all on FM). 100,000 watts will cover a hundred miles or so on FM. On AM, things get much different. 1 watt will probably get you about a mile or so. 200 watts is enough to get a good signal 30 miles-ish. 50,000 watts (like KKOB for example) will get you a whole state depending on a number of factors. The higher the power, usually the farther the signal can be heard. Power (and on FM ERP) really has nothing to do with making a station notable in my opinion. What makes it notable for me is that it has a license issued by the FCC. --milonica (talk) 07:12, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- Out of interest, I've read NeutralHomer's comment and he seems a bit defensive, which I suppose is understanadble given all the flak that WPRS gets from admins. He - or possibly someone else, I don't recall, used the wattage of the station as an argument. Could you give me some rough examples, perhaps, of wattage? Is 20 watts big, or 200, or 2,000? Does it go up to 20,000? I'm not a US citizen, so I don't pretend to understand these things! How far out does a 200 watt transmitter generally go? Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 07:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- Aren't FCC licences are easy to get hold of - they cost around $50, don't they? Certainly less than a month's wage, I thought. Doesn't that mean that any old man with a few hundred dollars can set up a radio station in his spare room - and have it notable, even if it's only 1 watt, and he lives out in the middle of nowhere? Does the general notability guideline come into it? I would have thought that there are notable unlicensed stations, and non-notable licensed ones. I mean, KAOR, for example - serves what amounts to a settlement of only 10,000 people. My village has more people than that! I'm going to try and get clarification from other admins on this - it sounds like an 'all-inclusive' policy, and one which some unscrupulous individuals from outside Wikipedia might try to abuse. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 07:38, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- As far as I know, no, FCC licenses take months if not years to go through and end up costing thousands of dollars. If they were 50 dollars we'd see hundreds of new stations a day, and the FCC would have their hands full (like they do already). The FCC is a good reference for radio stations being that it is part of the US Government. There are a few notable unlicensed stations, such as FRSC and FRSD but the FCC doesn't look too kindly on that activity. In the US, if you are going to operate on FM or AM with a substantial power, you better have a license. milonica (talk) 07:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- (edit conflict!) No, FCC licenses for broadcast radio stations are limited, relatively rare, and can trade for prices ranging from thousands to millions of dollars. I don't know what kind of license you're thinking of but it's not available for a broadcast radio station in the United States. - Dravecky (talk) 07:48, 13 November 2008 (UTC)