User talk:Michjet

Welcome!

Hello, Michjet, and welcome to Wikipedia! My name is Ian and I work with the Wiki Education Foundation; I help support students who are editing as part of a class assignment.

I hope you enjoy editing here. If you haven't already done so, please check out the student training library, which introduces you to editing and Wikipedia's core principles. You may also want to check out the Teahouse, a community of Wikipedia editors dedicated to helping new users. Below are some resources to help you get started editing.

Handouts
Choosing an article to edit Editing an article • Add images to articles Citing sources on Wikipedia
Additional Resources
You can find answers to many student questions on our Q&A site, ask.wikiedu.org

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:51, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

March 2018

Hello, I'm Zefr. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions to Clementine have been undone because they appeared to be promotional. Advertising and using Wikipedia as a "soapbox" are against Wikipedia policy and not permitted; Wikipedia articles should be written objectively, using independent sources, and from a neutral perspective. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you. Zefr (talk) 17:11, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

On my Talk page, you said: "thank you for explaining why my section was removed. It was not my intention to be promotional; instead something I am interested in is the rise of how the clementine became a popular snack. One of the ways I wanted to describe it was through the marketing and brands. Ex: if I wanted to know who was the main business in clementines I believed that that section could be useful. They are also very prevalent in the large grocery stores. Is there a way to add that section while staying within the rules?"

The message below by Agricolae addresses your question partly. Wikipedia needs independent, secondary and reliable sources described in WP:SECONDARY. To source clementine commerce, it's best to leave discussion of brands to the source itself, and not engage in brand discussion and promotion (which tend to be biased). News sites are typically best for foods, similar to this article, but you'll easily find others. Best to stick to general facts, however, as explained in WP:5P1. Good luck, and feel free to ask questions, if needed. --Zefr (talk) 02:06, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Clementines

Knowing that you are new to editing, I wanted to be sure you are clear about what was wrong with your addition. The CUTIES part relies on the CUTIES own web site. To be reliable, a source must be independent (see WP:RS) - someone else needs to think this is worthwhile information, not the producers themselves. The second reference was to a student paper. To be reliable, a source must have been published in some manner that includes fact-checking - an editor or a peer review process must have been involved. Nothing self-published (placed on the web by the authors) is considered reliable for Wikipedia purposes. Finally with the nutrition section, we at Wikipedia have to be particularly careful when making medical claims such as "Eating Clementines has been linked to relief from digestive issues, better cardiovascular health and a strengthened immune system. A negative aspect of Clementines that could be a health concern is that the caloric value of clementines mostly comes from sugar." This is because when people read incorrect health-related information on Wikipedia, it can have far more important consequences than an incorrect fact about something essoteric such as medieval Russian history or the game of contract bridge - people may chose to act on this 'information'. For this reason, there are specific policies that govern medical subjects and claims - see Wikipedia:Medical disclaimer, WP:MEDRS and Wikipedia:Why MEDRS?. The paragraph had been deleted because it's source fell short of the standards of reliability for making such medical claims, and it should not be restored without a better reference. Agricolae (talk) 17:43, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Let me add that a good bit of the CUTIES information itself may indeed be noteworthy, you just have to find the right source. I see a detailed discussion of how CUTIES and Halos revolutionized the California citrus industry in a major business newspaper and they are also featured in a slideshow on a webpage of perhaps the best-known US newspaper, undoubtedly reliable sources (but I am not going to hijack your assignment - it should be easy enough to track down). Always, though, bear in mind that we are after balanced coverage of the topic, that giving paragraph-long detailed accounts of these brands may make it too US-centric and too brand-focused. Also be aware of a common confusion I am seeing. The deleted text stated that CUTIES are two different fruit, Clementines and Murcotts, but this is contradicted by the cited CUTIES website and other careful accounts, which say the late-season fruit is actually W. Murcott, a distinct variety from Murcott. This is something that is also confused in a lot of 'popular-media' web sites, the authors of which are either unaware of the distinction or are using 'murcotts' (lower case) to refer to both the Murcott (upper case) and its hybrid progeny such as W. Murcott. This is part of the reason such sites do not represent the most reliable sources to use. Agricolae (talk) 17:07, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Again, I wanted to give an explanation, because it must feel like you are swimming against a strong current. The NYT article you cited was about mandarins. Clementines are mentioned as one type of mandarin, but most of the varieties named are explicitly therein called varieties of mandarin, not of clementine - the article only names three clementine varieties, none of which were among those added. For the clementine article, the NYT piece only serves as a valid source for the comments that specifically relate to clementines. The rest of the material may be appropriate elsewhere, for example on our mandarin orange and Murcott pages, but again, balance is key - as would be expected, the NYT article is very US-centric, but we aim for global coverage. Along these lines, the NYT piece says clementines were first imported to the US from Spain, and US is not listed among the major producers, so we really don't want to focus on California and the US to the exclusion of this major producer, home of both Fina and Nunes varieties. (This has problems of its own - those production stats are for mandarins as a whole, and it is likely that most of China's production is non-clementine. It would be great if someone could find some clementine-specific data.) Agricolae (talk) 18:14, 2 April 2018 (UTC)