User talk:MarshallBagramyan/Archive 1

Barev

As a fellow Armenian I would like to say barev to you and get to know you better. A little info about me, I was born in Yerevan, moved to the U.S. in 1995 but visit Armenia often. I hope to hear from you soon!--Moosh88 06:02, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Barev unger. I too am from Armenia. I moved out of the country in 1997 and recieved the second half of my education in the United States. I was born in Yerevan. Unfortunately I have never had the chance to visit back but plan on doing so in the near future. I'm mainly working on articles pertaining to history (with a special emphasis on the Caucuases and the USSR), politics, and economics. --MarshallBagramyan 07:34, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Will you return to Armenia to live or just to visit? I plan on moving to Armenia one day soon and getting involved in politics. I also work on mostly historical articles dealing not only with Armenian history, but also ancient Near Eastern history and European history; although I have been very busy in last couple of months.

BTW: Do you consider yourself as an Armenian nationalist?--Moosh88 08:09, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I might. I hope Armenia's standard of living can improve to the level of a modern country. Economics is one of the classes I am taking here in the United States so perhaps later on I can utilize those skills to improve the country's economy. I also am involved in Middle Eastern politics and history. I'm on vacation so I have a few weeks to edit around until my classes begin. --MarshallBagramyan 18:46, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, I hope you do use your skills to better our great nation; every person doing something useful really adds up. I don't think you saw the last part of my pervious post, I asked if you consider yourself an Armenian nationalist/patriot?--Moosh88 19:36, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh I guess I did miss that. I'm not sure what you mean by me being a nationalist, but I am a patriot who loves his country. I do miss the glory our country saw in its heyday with the USSR and hopefully it will become a leading power in the region. I hope that one day it will look like the Armenia of 1918 with its vast borders stretching from Van to Karabagh. --MarshallBagramyan 19:47, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Your comment is exactly what I meant by nationalist; a love, respect and admiration for everything Armenian. I too hope that one day soon Armenia will be a powerful regional power. The reason I asked you that question was to see if you are a person who'd like to join an Armenian forum with members who share the patriotic views that you and I have.

P.S. I really hope that you decide to join and make the forum an even more enlightening place.--Moosh88 20:49, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Whoa, the background color of that webpage is an eyesore. I'll try to find time to contribute my thoughts in the page if I find the time for it. I love my country and understand that is has both fallacies and its strengths. I don't want to follow it blindly like a sheep or condone unlawful acts it commits. Likewise, I hope the land we will take back from Turkey and Azerbaijan will be via treaty and not by the cause of war and bloodshed.--MarshallBagramyan 03:40, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

The background changes often, so don't worry about that LOL. I agree one should never simply follow anything blindly, I hope you don't think that's what the forum is like. As for getting our rightful lands back through treaty, every Armenian would want it to be by diplomacy rather than armed conflict, but we must face the truth, turkey still has an economic blockade against our homeland and azerbaijani officials often make bellicious statements concerning Armenia and Karabakh, not to mention their massive increase in the military budget for next year. Armenia should use diplomacy no doubt about that, but it must be ready for anything.--Moosh88 03:54, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, Azerbaijan is wildy beligerrent and I am frankly sickened by their constant taunting of renewing the Karabagh war. But from what I have learned from economics is that countries that focus on a large defense budget, such as North Korea who spends nearly 17-20% of its GDP on defense, decreases the standard of living of their country which might lessen the chances of a renewal of the war. In any case, I doubt that they will be able to do anything significant. We saw how a USSR-backed Azerbaijan that was repeatedly thwarted by a numerically and technologically inferior Armenian force. Diplomacy is nice but it usually fails to solve the problem in the long run.--MarshallBagramyan 05:18, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

It seems as if we are on the same page. Although I don't understand the last part of your message "a USSR-backed azerbaijan" During the start of Karabakh independence war Russia backed both sides but within a year began supporting solely Armenia; also we had better weapons than azerbaijan for the better part of the war, which we sent to the heroic soldiers of Karabakh. You are right diplomacy doesn't always work and even when it does it usually sets the stage for another conflict, that's why I said Armenia must be ready for anything.

BTW: BE SURE TO SAVE THE URL I GAVE YOU, AS I WILL BE TAKING DOWN THE ADDRESS TOMORROW SO AS TO KEEP THE SITE MORE PRIVATE. --Moosh88 06:01, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, according to newspapers and magazines that I have read (namely TIME Magazine since it covered the subject so throughly) it documented as how the USSR backed Azerbaijan in the initial stages of the conflict.

Take this excerpt from TIME dated April 19, 1992:

"Until the Soviet Union's collapse, the Kremlin tended to favor the Azeris in the conflict, largely because Azerbaijan was the last bastion of communist orthodoxy in the Caucasus. Soviet army and Interior Ministry troops alternately tried to keep the peace or assisted the Azeris in military operations. Though the Azeri government in Baku accuses Russia of helping Armenia, it is the Azeri fighters in the region who are far better equipped with Soviet military weaponry than their opponents."

We captured many of those weapons since the Azeris so easily abandoned them and it wasn't until the '90s where Russia pledged its support and began sending arms to Armenia. We truly were the underdog of the conflict. --MarshallBagramyan 19:46, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Hey how have you been lately? I see that you've added a lot of good content to Wiki. Have you had time to visit the Armenian forum that I gave you the link to?--Moosh88 03:29, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Hey Moosh, I've been good, I've began some articles including a military article on the Nagorno-Karabakh war. I want more opinions from other people on what they think of them and how to improve them. I have taken a look at the site but haven't had the time to register there.--MarshallBagramyan 05:36, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

T-64 video

The video sounds very interesting. If it's not too much trouble, email me through my talk page, and I'll email back my contact info. Cheers. —Michael Z. 2006-01-4 20:28 Z

Thanks for trying, but I can't play the video from putfile. I've tried on my Macintosh and XP installation, and even sussed out the video file's URL to download it or enter the URL directly in Windows Media Player. No go—the best I can get is a 72-kB file with about 3 seconds of video. Regards. —Michael Z. 2006-01-4 23:06 Z

Armenian Legion

Hi, I still dispute pretty much the entire article. In addition, i'm 99.99% sure that the quotes attributed to Hitler are total fabrications. Other mistakes, 812th did not have 18, 000 people. Dro was NEVER the commander of the batallion etc. I have a great book dedicated to the Armenian Legion of the Wehrmacht written by Eduard Abrahamyan (in Russian) which I will use as my source among others. I just don't have time now.--Eupator 02:06, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

The foundation of that quote is somewhat unusual but Auron's source comes from a Dutch historian. I've been desperately searching for books and articles on the Armenians in Germany during World War II and the general consensus (even by Turkish websites) was that there was about 20,000 men in the force but according to Walker, that was the unit he commanded. I'm sure his force was serving somewhere in the Western Front as he was arrested by Americans in Heidelberg in 1945. Thanks for catching my mistake on the NK-War article ;) --MarshallBagramyan 03:40, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

azeri POV pusher

Hey Marshall, I'd like your help in keeping an eye on user baku87. He is from azerbaijan and he recently joined wiki and is now adding baised edits to article, mainly the Military of Armenia article and the Military of azerbaijan article. I hope you will be able to help me with this problem, which I fear will escalate.--Moosh88 23:26, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I'll make sure to keep a keen eye on it. The Nagorno-Karabakh war article has already been vandalized by a few Azeris; some who even claim they fought in the war and that the version on that article was inaccurate.

Thanks for the heads up.--MarshallBagramyan 21:59, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Marshall I need you help right now, please! They have sent the entire pro azeri users on wiki to argue against me and are trying to start another fruitless wiki war. Please read the talk page of the Military of Armenia article. Get back to me as soon as possible, this is very important! Thank you!--Moosh88 20:02, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for posting that info on the talk page Marshall. I have talked with other users, mostly Armenians, and hopefully they will soon be involved in putting an end to bs that the azeri/turkish side is trying to get in the article. Please continue to monitor the talk page as well as the article and I will do the same. By working together, we will present a much tougher resistence to the biased azeri users.--Moosh88 22:03, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I see the Pan-Turkist Are Attacking Armenian Articles

Azeris are not Turks, the sooner the few hardheads in the Republic of Azerbaijan know that the soooner the situation with Armenia can be fixed. Racial nationalism has a part to play and one of the causes fueling this conflict is pan-Turkist ideology. Azeris are Iranian and their ancestos are the same as Persians, Kurds, and Armenians. 69.196.139.250 21:42, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Mail

A few days ago you asked me for my e-mail address because you wanted to send me something. I still have not recieved you e-mail, are you planning on sending it anytime soon? Please get back to me, thanks!--Moosh88 02:34, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Ya I'll send it over the weekend its just that I haven't had enough time to write it due to school and work. I'll send it sometime over the weekend.

Regards--MarshallBagramyan 04:05, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Help needed

Hey Marshall, would you be able to help me out by reverting User:-Inanna- on the Adana page? I'm not asking you to get into another dispute, but I was just wondering if you could do me a favor. After that you don't have to revert.

Basically, a bunch of Turkish editors are trying to delete information about the Adana massacre and adding a paragraph about how a large number Turks were killed by Armenians. Of course they haven't cited any neutral sources. --Khoikhoi 08:15, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Sure Khoikhoi, I'll see what I can find and include more references from neutral sources. If you can conversely do me a favor, can you visit the Kars page? Kagan has been deleting my grandfather's picture on grounds that it is "inappropriate" and "inaccurate". Thanks.--MarshallBagramyan 23:42, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey, no problem. :) --Khoikhoi 02:00, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Help Neeeded on armenian Division Article

Hello,

I am hoping you can help expand this article I started. Best, Soviet 89th "Tamanyan" Division (Hetoum 23:45, 26 March 2006 (UTC))

Hi!

I totally forgot about the Sasunci Davit division. Well, my great-grandfather was in the Tamanyan and Berlin. He brought back some of those big German Marks from the Empire now in my collection! Hope to work on articles in the future with you. Best,

(Hetoum 02:09, 27 March 2006 (UTC))

Nice, mine was infantry captain I htink ... He is mentioned in the book om the history of the Tamanyan division, issued to it's surviving members.

Wikiproject: Armenia

Hakob and I, decided to make a Wikiproject for Armenia. We hope that you and other Armenian wikipedia editors, will take the time to expand Armenian related articles and create new articles on topics currently without one. Please feel free to share your thoughts on the project and have fun! Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Armenia --Moosh88 01:08, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Are you going to help with the project or no?--Moosh88 08:20, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Khojaly Page

Dear Marshall B,

Look at the Kojaly page. It is filled with Azeri prop and bias to the limit, how can we unite and counter this? Hetoum

Kars

Helklo, I loved the drawing of kars you posted ... on the Molakan street ... I thought I would comment what I knew ... Molakan are a group of Russian protestants, amny of whom settled in Armenia, during the periofd of Russian empire ...

Hetoum

Khojaly massacre

I read your comment on the talk page of the Khojaly massacre article, and it suprised me to read that you think the article is NPOV, please read my comment. Hopefully you will see that in fact the article is flawed and another example of azeri propaganda.--Moosh88 01:00, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

SL

Sedat Laciner is on Wikipedia contributing under two different usernames, please keep and eye on him, as he has already begun his POV pushing campaign. His user name is Slaciner, I don't know the other name he uses. Please contact me if you have any questions or something important comes up, thanks!--Moosh88 23:24, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!

Hey Marshall,

Thank you very much for your kindness! :) What particular vandalism caught your eye? FYI, Adkagansu left Wikipedia. —Khoikhoi 06:38, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Charjhe. You'll see a similar POV by looking at the recent edit history of the Armenian Genocide article. Ts'tesutyun, —Khoikhoi 00:14, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

nazım hikmet

Nâzim Hikmet, who also acknowledged the Genocide may I ask for sources of it ? I am a fun of him, but I haven't seen such acknowledge. Additionally, I have to remind you about More and more historians. The list you show doesn't contain more and more historian. Am I right ? Some of the human activity volunteer were claimed as supporter of PKK. Do you know that ? Then, we cannot say humanistic for them.

You can go on UnSalty/UnFlavored, I don't mind. I can do the same.

--TuzsuzDeliBekir 19:30, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Fund of him? Fond of him?

"The Armenian citizen has not forgiven

the slaughter of his father in the Kurdish mountains

But he loves you, because you also won't forgive

those who blackened the name of the Turkish people"

Hikmet's quote on the lament of the Armenian Genocide is expressed in his book Things I Didn't Know I Loved: Selected Poems of Nazim Hikmet (New York; Persea Books, 1975) on page 60. And who exactly is the alleged member of the terrorist? Akçam? Or beleaguered Zarakolu whose office was bombed by Turkish extremists? Others include Ali Ertem and Salim Deringil, --MarshallBagramyan 01:51, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

lover of his poems. You did understand what exactly I mean. As for part of poem, His writings were filled with social criticism and he was the only major writer to speak out against the Armenian massacres in 1915 and 1922. What you understand after reading is based on which you want to understand. I totaly disagree with you about his support of Armenian genocide. Lots of his poems are about love of motherland, social criticism and so on. One of his well-known poem is the legend of Turkish War of Independence, and one of the longest, too.

26 AĞUSTOS GECESİNDE SAATLAR İKİ OTUZDAN BEŞ OTUZA KADAR ve İZMİR RIHTIMINDAN AKDENİZ'E BAKAN NEFER

Saat 2.30.

Kocatepe yanık ve ihtiyar bir bayırdır, ne ağaç, ne kuş sesi, ne toprak kokusu vardır. Gündüz güneşin, gece yıldızların altında kayalardır. Ve şimdi gece olduğu için ve dünya karanlıkta daha bizim, daha yakın, daha küçük kaldığı için ve bu vakitlerde topraktan ve yürekten evimize, aşkımıza ve kendimize dair sesler geldiği için kayalıklarda şayak kalpaklı nöbetçi okşayarak gülümseyen bıyığını seyrediyordu Kocatepe'den dünyanın en yıldızlı karanlığını. Düşman üç saatlik yerdedir ve Hıdırlık-tepesi olmasa Afyonkarahisar şehrinin ışıkları gözükecek. Küzeydoğuda Güzelim-dağları ve dağlarda tek tek ateşler yanıyor. Ovada Akarçay bir pırıltı halinde ve şayak kalpaklı nöbetçinin hayalinde şimdi yalnız suların yaptığı bir yolculuk var : Akarçay belki bir akar su, belki bir ırmak, belki küçücük bir nehirdir. Akarçay Dereboğazı'nda değirmenleri çevirip ve kılçıksız yılan balıklarıyla Yedişehitler kayasının gölgesine girip çıkar. Ve kocaman çiçekleri eflâtun kırmızı beyaz ve sapları bir, bir buçuk adam boyundaki haşhaşların arasından akar. Ve Afyon önünde Altıgözler Köprüsü'nün altından gündoğuya dönerek ve Konya tren hattına rastlayıp yolda Büyükçobanlar Köyü'nü solda ve Kızılkilise'yi sağda bırakıp gider.

Düşündü birdenbire kayalardaki adam kaynakları ve yolları düşman elinde kalan bütün nehirleri. Kim bilir onlar ne kadar büyük, ne kadar uzundular? Birçoğunun adını bilmiyordu, yalnız, Yunan'dan önce ve Seferberlik'ten evvel Selimşahlar Çiftliği'nde ırgatlık ederken Manisa'da geçerdi Gediz'in sularını başı dönerek.

Dağlarda tek tek ateşler yanıyordu. Ve yıldızlar öyle ışıltılı, öyle ferahtılar ki şayak kalpaklı adam nasıl ve ne zaman geleceğini bilmeden güzel, rahat günlere inanıyordu ve gülen bıyıklarıyla duruyordu ki mavzerinin yanında, birdenbire beş adım sağında onu gördü. Paşalar onun arkasındaydılar. O, saatı sordu. Paşalar : «Üç,» dediler. Sarışın bir kurda benziyordu. Ve mavi gözleri çakmak çakmaktı. Yürüdü uçurumun başına kadar, eğildi, durdu. Bıraksalar ince, uzun bacakları üstünde yaylanarak ve karanlıkta akan bir yıldız gibi kayarak Kocatepe'den Afyon Ovası'na atlıyacaktı.

Saat 3.30.

Halimur - Ayvalı hattı üzerinde manga mevziindedir.

İzmirli Ali Onbaşı (kendisi tornacıdır) karanlıkta gözyordamıyla sanki onları bir daha görmiyecekmiş gibi baktı manga efradına birer birer : Sağda birinci nefer sarışındı. İkinci esmer. Üçüncü kekemeydi fakat bölükte yoktu onun üstüne şarkı söyliyen. Dördüncünün yine mutlak bulamaç istiyordu canı. Beşinci, vuracaktı amcasını vuranı tezkere alıp Urfa'ya girdiği akşam. Altıncı, inanılmıyacak kadar büyük ayaklı bir adam, memlekette toprağını ve tek öküzünü ihtıyar bir muhacir karısına bıraktığı için kardeşleri onu mahkemeye verdiler ve bölükte arkadaşlarının yerine nöbete kalktığı için ona «Deli Erzurumlu» derdiler. Yedinci, Mehmet oğlu Osman'dı. Çanakkale'de, İnönü'nde, Sakarya'da yaralandı ve gözünü kırpmadan daha bir hayli yara alabilir, yine de dimdik ayakta kalabilir. Sekizinci, İbrahim, korkmıyacaktı bu kadar bembeyaz dişleri böyle tıkırdayıp birbirine böyle vurmasalar. Ve İzmirli Ali Onbaşı biliyordu ki : tavşan korktuğu için kaçmaz kaçtığı için korkar.

Saat 4.

Ağzıkara - Söğütlüdere mıntıkası. On ikinci Piyade Fırkası. Gözler karanlıkta, uzakta. Eller yakında, makanizmalar üzerinde. Herkes yerli yerinde. Tabur imamı mevzideki biricik silâhsız adam : ölülerin adamı, kırık bir söğüt dalı dikerek kıbleye doğru, durdu boyun büküp el kavuşturup sabah namazına. İçi rahattır. Cennet, ebedî bir istirahattır. Ve yenilseler de, yenseler de âdâyı, meydânı gazadan o kendi elleriyle verecektir Cenâbı rabbülâlemîne şühedâyı.

Saat 4.45.

Sandıklı civarı. Köyler. Sarkık, siyah bıyıklı süvari, çınar dibinde, beygirinin yanında duruyordu. Çukurova beygiri kuyruğunu karanlığa vuruyordu : dizkapaklarında kan, kantarmasında köpük... İkinci Süvari Fırkası'ndan Dördüncü Bölük, atları, kılıçları ve insanlarıyla havayı kokluyor. Geride, köylerde bir horoz öttü. Ve sarkık, siyah bıyıklı süvari ellerinin tersiyle yüzünü örttü. Karşı dağlar ardında, düşman elinde kalan bir başka horoz vardır : baltaibik, sütbeyaz bir Denizli horozu. Düşmanlar herhal onu çoktan kesip çorbasını yapmışlardır...

Saat beşe on var.

Kırk dakka sonra şafak sökecek. «Korkma sönmez bu şafaklarda yüzen al sancak». Tınaztepe'ye karşı Kömürtepe güneyinde, On beşinci Piyade Fırkası'ndan iki ihtiyat zabiti ve onların genci, uzunu, Darülmuallimin mezunu Nurettin Eşfak, mavzer tabancasının emniyetiyle oynıyarak konuşuyor : -Bizim İstiklâl Marşı'nda aksıyan bir taraf var, bilmem ki, nasıl anlatsam, Âkif, inanmış adam, fakat onun, ben, inandıklarının hepsine inanmıyorum. Meselâ, bakın : «Gelecektir sana vaadettiği günler Hakkın.» Hayır, gelecek günler için gökten âyet inmedi bize. Onu biz, kendimiz vaadettik kendimize. Bir şarkı istiyorum zaferden sonrasına dair. «Kim bilir belki yarın...»

Saat beşe beş var.

Dağlar aydınlanıyor. Bir yerlerde bir şeyler yanıyor. Gün ağardı ağaracak. Kokusu tütmeğe başladı : Anadolu toprağı uyanıyor. Ve bu anda, kalbi bir şahan gibi göklere salıp ve pırıltılar görüp ve çok uzak çok uzak bir yerlere çağıran sesler duyarak bir müthiş ve mukaddes mâcereda, ön safta, en ön sırada, şahlanıp ölesi geliyordu insanın.

Topçu evvel mülâzımı Hasan'ın yaşı yirmi birdi. Kumral başını gökyüzüne çevirdi, kalktı ayağa. Baktı, yıldızları ağaran muazzam karanlığa. Şimdi bir hamlede o kadar büyük, öyle şöhretli işler yapmak istiyordu ki bütün ömrünü ve hâtırasını ve yedi buçukluk bataryasını ağlanacak kadar küçük buluyordu.

Yüzbaşı sordu : - Saat kaç? - Beş. - Yarım saat sonra demek...

98956 tüfek ve şoför Ahmet'in üç numrolu kamyonetinden yedi buçukluk şnayderlere, on beşlik obüslere kadar, bütün âletleriyle ve vatan uğrunda, yani, toprak ve hürriyet için ölebilmek kabiliyetleriyle Birinci ve İkinci ordular baskına hazırdılar.

Alaca karanlıkta, bir çınar dibinde, beygirinin yanında duran sarkık, siyah bıyıklı süvari kısa çizmeleriyle atladı atına. Nurettin Eşfak baktı saatına : - Beş otuz... Ve başladı topçu ateşiyle ve fecirle birlikte büyük taarruz...

Sonra. Sonra, düşmanın müstahkem cepheleri düştü. Bunlar : Karahisar güneyinde 50 ve doğusunda 20-30 kilometredeydiler.

Sonra. Sonra, düşman ordusu kuvâyi külliyesini ihâta ettik Aslıhanlar civarında 30 Ağustosa kadar.

Sonra. Sonra, 30 Ağustosta düşman kuvâyı külliyesi imha ve esir olundu. Esirler arasında General Trikopis : Alaturka sopa yemiş bir temiz ve sırmaları kopuk frenk uşağı...

Yaralı bir düşman ölüsüne takıldı Nurettin Eşfak'ın ayağı. Nurettin dedi ki : «Teselyalı Çoban Mihail,» Nurettin dedi ki : «Seni biz değil, buraya gönderenler öldürdü seni...»

Sonra. Sonra, 31 Ağustos günü ordularımız İzmir'e doğru yürürken serseri bir kurşunla vurulan Deli Erzurumluydu. Devrildi. Kürek kemikleri altında toprağı duydu. Baktı yukarı, baktı karşıya. Gözler hayretle yandılar : önünde, sırtüstü, yan yana yatan postalları her seferkinden kocamandılar. Ve bu postallar daha bir hayli zaman üzerlerinden atlayıp geçen arkadaşların arkasından seyredip güneşli gökyüzünü ihtiyar bir muhacir karısını düşündüler. Sonra... Sonra, sarsılıp ayrıldılar birbirlerinden ve Deli Erzurumlu ölürken kederinden yüzlerini toprağa döndüler...

Solda, ilerdeydi Ali Onbaşı. Kan içindeydi yüzü gözü. Bir süvari takımı geçti yanından dörtnala. Kaçanı kovalamıyordu yalnız ulaşmak da istiyordu bir yerlere ve sadece kahretmiyor yaratıyordu da. Ve kılıçların, nalların, ellerin ve gözlerin pırıltısı ardarda çakan aydınlık bir bütündü. Ali Onbaşı bir şimşek hızıyla düşündü ve şu türküyü duydu : «Dörtnala gelip Uzak Asya'dan Akdeniz'e bir kısrak başı gibi uzanan bu memleket bizim.

Bilekler kan içinde, dişler kenetli, ayaklar çıplak ve ipek bir halıya benziyen toprak, bu cehennem, bu cennet bizim.

Kapansın el kapıları, bir daha açılmasın, yok edin insanın insana kulluğunu, bu dâvet bizim...

Yaşamak bir ağaç gibi tek ve hür ve bir orman gibi kardeşçesine, bu hasret bizim...»>

Sonra. Sonra, 9 Eylülde İzmir'e girdik ve Kayserili bir nefer yanan şehrin kızıltısı içinden gelip öfkeden, sevinçten, ümitten ağlıya ağlıya, Güneyden Kuzeye, Doğudan Batıya, Türk halkıyla beraber seyretti İzmir rıhtımından Akdeniz'i.

Ve biz de burda bitirdik destanımızı. Biliyoruz ki lâyığınca olmadı bu kitap, Türk halkı bağışlasın bizi, onlar ki toprakta karınca, suda balık, havada kuş kadar çokturlar; korkak, cesur, câhil, hakîm ve çocukturlar ve kahreden yaratan ki onlardır, kitabımızda yalnız onların mâcereları vardır...

Well, I didn't say that people listed attacked civil point. I said they were suspected of being supporter of PKK. They made PKK propaganda. Anyway, I haven't seen list of more and more Turkish historian who accept Armenian Genocide as a fact, yet.--TuzsuzDeliBekir 07:09, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Request

Hi Marshall,

Would you please be able to help me out at Abdullah Öcalan? Some user keeps adding terrorist categories to the article, although this is POV. Thanks. —Khoikhoi 01:06, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Ah no, I didn't want you to actually contribute to the article, but just help me out with a certain user. It's all cleared up now anyways. —Khoikhoi 03:42, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: Nagorno-Karabakh map

I've completely revised the Nagorno-Karabakh war map (see here). I decided to keep the Azeri-occupied Artsvashen exclave of Armenia on the map, because in that respect, it will be more complete.

Your fellow Armenian, Clevelander 20:35, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Refs

Hi. To add a ref, here's an example.

I like cats.<ref>Smith, Britannica, 2005</ref>

It then automatically shows up at the bottom. However, to add a ref for something that you'll use mutliple times throughout the article, the first time it would look like this:

My grandma hates cats.<ref name="johnson">Johnson, Thomas. Columbia, 1996</ref>

And then the second time that you want to use that in an article, use this:

My grandma also hates dogs.<ref name="johnson" />

Hope that helped. —Khoikhoi 01:38, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I thought you should know

March Massacre Fad (ix) 23:13, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Sumgait

Sure, I'll check it out. Would you be able to tell me briefly what the main POV issues are? Thanks. —Khoikhoi 05:12, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'll read it tomorrow. (I'm getting very sleepy) ;) Cheers, —Khoikhoi 05:49, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Heh, you're welcome my fellow "hatemonger". ;) —Khoikhoi 03:42, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

From your userpage...

You seem to be an expert on any topic that has Anti-Turkish sentiments. I read your one-sided view on issues pertaining to Turks and Armenians, and it would help if you made a better effort to learn the truth. You seem misguided. But I guess claiming to be from the USSR(which does not exist), and to be supportive of a bandit group of Armenian militias that murdered innocent Turks throughout the Caucasus and Eastern Turkiye, puts you in a fixated group of hatemongers...—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.44.193.160 (talk • contribs)

Enjoy! --M1ss1ontomars2k4 | T | C | @ 05:13, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I seem to be an expert on anti-Turkish sentiments? Can you please clarify? What issues do you have grievances with? The Armenian Genocide article? the Sumgait Massacre? Perhaps even the Nagorno-Karabakh war also? Anything that involves criticizing and accurately explaining crimes committed by Turks or Azeris? I'm far from being misguided and I was born in what was at the time called the Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic and part of a larger country called the Soviet Union; hence the verb "was". ASALA, though its means of accomplishing its goals were tragic managed to bring up the issue of the Armenian Genocide back into the international picture in the 1970s and 1980s. That you most probably reject the occurrences of such events doesn't surprise me nor concern me. The fact that you accuse me of being racist against Turks/Azeris/Turkic people is also not surprising and I really don't need to spend time on refuting such minor, inaccurate charges no matter how much how much you provoke me. Sorry, I don't play those games. --MarshallBagramyan 06:10, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Are you an Admin?

If you are please look at the threats that user:Grandmaster is issuing towards me for freedom of expression. He is trying to manipulate the system against me because I am an Azari who does not beleive the rheotoric from Ankara and the corrupt political elite of Baku. I am an Iranian not a Turk, just like the majority of Azaris view themselves. I do not beleive that their are'Armenian terrorists.' I recognize the fact that Azaris are a kin to the Armenians too. When I show evidence and verify this user:Grandmaster threatens me or deletes my statemsnets on the talk page and tries to have me blocked. If you are an admin please mediate. His bias and propganda is terrible. 72.57.230.179

Yeah, I know this user. I believe FrancisTyers is checking it out, as well as InShaneee and Tony Sidaway. So I don't think there's any reason for me to get involved. Oh well. —Khoikhoi 04:43, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

RfAr

Don't worry, you will be informed, you are the only active Armenian editing Armenian related issues that somehow understand how to write encyclopedic articles, no offense to others. I'd rather have you there at the RfAr then the others. BTW about the manipulation you showed me, no it can not go in the main article. I can give you various more serious examples, this compared to others is nothing. For the time being, I will concentrate on the RfAr and the article about denial. Fad (ix) 16:30, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

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Tag

The tag states "This article does not cite sources or references that appear in a credible publication and are not primary sources".

Please stop bitching about Grandmaster and concentrate on the page. I looked at the March Massacres article and it is crap — I did a bit of "cleanup" but it still sucks, its even worse than the Sumgait Massacre and Kholajy Massacre ones. If you tried to constructively engage rather than sniping at each other I think you'd get a lot further. When you are interested in trying to build consensus and not discussing each others actions, let me know and I will be glad to mediate. - FrancisTyers 17:22, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I just don't understand why the tag says that "it doesn't rely on primary sources" when it certainly does.

Read the tag, carefully. "This article or section does not cite sources or references that appear in a credible publication and are not primary sources" — articles aren't supposed to rely solely on primary sources. That borders on original research. - FrancisTyers 19:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

About Sumgait pogrom article

Be cautious, the article now has introduced POV issues, be more careful about the wordings. Regards Fad (ix) 22:22, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

When are we Going to See Proof that Azaris are Genetically Turkic

Please keep an eye on Azari and the talk:Azari. I have started the following in the discussion.

It has been ages since these citations have not been verified. Verification is needed. If not delete the material. the amount of time granted has been generious. The Azaris Iranian background has been verified through various scientific and academic sources, but the Turkic claim has not. The only think that has been verified is the Turkic langauge. 72.57.230.179

Soviet Armenia

Marshall,

I was wondering if you could help me out with the Armenian SSR article, you know verify it, maybe look it over. Tell me what you think.

Regards, Clevelander 02:39, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

RFE images

You have to use this tag, the one you added is wrong: {{CopyrightedFreeUseProvidedThat|REASON}} --Eupator 22:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Sh'norhavor lini!

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		Hey Marshall, for all your great, detailed, thoroughly-researched, and unbiased work on the Nagorno-Karabakh war article, I would like to award you this. Kenats't! -- Clevelander 00:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Karabakh map

Marshall, regarding the new Karabakh map, should it cover both Armenia and Azerbaijan in full (like on the occupation zones map) or should it be specfically focused on the Karabakh region? Also, which cities do you specfically want to have featured on the map? -- Clevelander 12:39, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Map One

Okay, I've completed the first map:

Image:Karabakh War Map.png

Tell me what you think. I'll be doing the other map shortly. I'm also thinking of completely redoing my Karabakh occupation map, as there are several things I want to change on it. Regards, Clevelander 21:41, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Alright, how's this?:

Image:Nagorno-Karabakh War Map.png

This includes the Lachin corridor road (leading from the Azeri-Armenian border to Lachin to Sushi to Stepanakert, and finally to Aghdam). I also removed the Azeri rayon borders and replaced the stars with circles. The only one that I didn't change was Stepanakert.

Good luck with those new articles, they should be great reads. Keep up the good work!

BTW, where do you stand on the Karabakh issue? If you don't wish to disclose it on Wikipedia, you can always e-mail me. Regards, Clevelander 15:09, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I think I see what you're saying now. So you want me to do a map that looks something like my old Karabakh occupation map and show certain cities in it? I just want to make sure that I have it right. Cheers, Clevelander 20:05, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey Marshall, I'm not sure if you got my last note, but, I was just asking, do you want me to do a map that looks something like my old Karabakh occupation map and show certain cities in it? Thanks again! Best, Clevelander 23:24, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

look

Hey,

Check out the shusha prison article POV bs keeps extending ... Baku87 needs to be taught a lesson in professionalism and such ..

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fadix"

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Foreign relations of Armenia

Hey Marshall, how does this look so far?: Foreign relations of Armenia. Be sure to give me your feedback. (Also, never got word from you on the Karabakh issue - you can e-mail me through Wikipedia) -- Clevelander 02:44, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Nice work as always! I actually never knew about the "revenge massacres" that the Azeris committed against the Armenians after Khojaly, according to Caroline Cox. I hope this conflict gets resolved soon. Best, Clevelander 15:13, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Karabakh table

How's this? You can fix it up however you'd like, at least I made a foundation for us to work off of. -- Clevelander 19:31, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Armenian Genocide

Barev,

I've listed it on WP:RPP, although I don't think there's a enough vandalism at the moment to get it protected. —Khoikhoi 01:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Map of the Democratic Republic of Armenia

Hey Marshall, do you know where I can find a map of the Democratic Republic of Armenia from a non-Armenian (preferably western) source? I made the current map, but Grandmaster and AdilBaguirov have disputed its accuracy in comparison to the map of the Democratic Republic of Azerbaijan. They claim that the map used on their page is from an official Azerbaijan source, while my Armenian map is from http://america.com/ . Also, is Robert H. Hewsen really not an Armenian? Be sure to respond soon. Thanks! -- Clevelander 22:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

thanks for the good debate

I just wanted to thank you for your good will. it is rare to find a reasonable man in these pages. I can go on with the asala arguement but obviously that page is not the place. I want to say that I never said or think that all armenians are terorist. it is unfair to accuse me of this. But I still find it a bit disturbing that Asala members lie in your monumental heroes cemetary ( and i think that is disrespectfull for the real heroes there) and some people indeed mourn for them. but these things happen. I did not bring these up to smear armenia or armenians I just wanted to remind you that one should first look at its own nation before blaming others of crazy patriotism.

and 150.000 armenians in russian army + 40.000 armenian irregular militia is well documented both in russian, french, english and ottoman documents. if you want an examle I can scan it for you when i have time. in french thoug.neurobio 23:41, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Karabakh

Ultimately, I would be in favor of secession of Karabakh as an independent state. I believe this because the Armenians were the underdogs in the conflict, with considerable odds against them (almost like a Six-Day War situation), and yet they prevailed. If it were to become an independent state, then perhaps both Armenia and Azerbaijan could make an agreement establishing a completely neutral foreign policy in Karabakh like that of Austria or Switzerland. These may help ease tensions over the region. I also believe that its name should be changed from "Nagorno-Karabakh" to "Artsakh."

However, if Azerbaijan continues to push for its terrorial integrity to be preserved, then I wouldn't be opposed to the region becoming an autonomus republic of Azerbaijan again, provided of course, that it also include the rest of the Kalbajar rayon and all of Lachin giving them a border with Armenia, promised protection of all ethnic Armenians and Christians living in the area from Armenia, and that the government of the area have direct links to the government in Baku. Shahumian may or may not be included as part of it. In my view, that would depend on demographics (I'm not sure if any Armenians live there or not). The "Artsakh" name change should also be applied to this action as well.

Regardless of whatever happens, I also believe that the enclaves of Azerbaijan (Yukhari Askipara, Barkhudali, and Karki) should be incorparted into Armenia, while the Armenian enclave of Artsvashen should be incorporated into Azerbaijan. These oddly placed territories are what I call "Stalinist enclaves," named of course after our favorite smug looking, mustachioed dictator fiend...er, I mean friend from Georgia. More important, however, is the reconciliation process between Armenia and Azerbaijan. For starters, both countries should apologize for the Sumgait Massacre and the Khojaly Massacre respectively. Overall, however, I believe that the greater issue that Armenia faces is with Turkey concerning the Armenian Genocide and the lost territories of Armenia (I wish Russia would annul the Treaty of Kars and be done with it).

The reason why I didn't give out my e-mail was because on the left side of my user page, you will see under the "toolbox" section the "e-mail user" option. I'll admit that I had trouble getting adjusted to this too, so no worries.

I brought up the map to you because of a recent controversy based on the fact that the map on the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic article contradicts that of both the Democratic Republic of Armenia article and, as I pointed out today, the Democratic Republic of Georgia page. See the talk page on the Armenian article for background of the dispute.

An interesting note that I'd just like to add that I'm not sure you've heard about. According to the Los Angeles Times, The History Channel pulled a two-hour documentary about the rise and fall of the Ottoman Empire that was due to air tonight [1]. But due to pressure from Turkey, it was pulled. Do you suppose it had anything to do with the Armenian Genocide? Best, Clevelander 23:04, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

New movie about the war

[2] looks pretty cool.--Eupator 15:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: New War?

I hope a second war doesn't happen, as it will benefit nobody in that region - Armenians or Azeris - and would mean more death, more destruction, and more DPs. The idea of renewing the war has come up often whenever peace talks do not reach a definitive resolution. Aliyev has been the biggest proponent at pushing for the war and I believe before the recent Bucharest conference, he not only threatened to invade Karabakh but Armenia itself. He has hinted at it before (in ways similar to those of Nasser prior to the Six-Day War, which concerns me). No doubt that he's making these statements just to bolster his popularity in the face of pro-democratic opposition forces. Of course, if he were to invade Karabakh, then some may view that as something that may only improve his reputation in Azerbaijan.

I find it ironic that the Azeri government and media label the Armenians as "aggressors" when clearly the Azeri government seems to find it justifible to not only destroy the cultural heritage of an ethnic minority group (the khachkars in Nakhichevan) but to make statements promising to invade a territory whose population is virtually non-Azeri and try to integrate it by force. Similar statements from Azeri propaganda that vow for the "liberation of Karabakh" don't make much sense for this exact reason - how can you "liberate" a region where the people living there despise those who claim to be "liberating" it? That's like the Soviets invading Hungary, claiming to be "defending Socialism."

However, even if there will be a second war, I'm confident that the Armenians will at least be prepared. Like Azerbaijan, although they have not made much noise, Armenia has been increasing its military spending as well as recruiting more servicemen (since 2002 or so, I read somewhere the Armenia's number of active troops has increased from 10,000 to 60,000, roughly 10,000 new recruits per year). They have also developed substantial military alliances with both Russia and Greece and have purchased a greater deal of weapons from both countries in recent years.

Again, I pray that this doesn't happen. But who knows? Only time will tell if Aliyev is being serious or not.

The Karabakh movie sounds interesting. I wonder when it'll come to the US. -- Clevelander 22:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I would be interested to see what some of the Azeri editors on Wikipedia think - if they're in favor of restarting the war or not, just to see what the popular perception is on the other side of the fence. -- Clevelander 22:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I actually agree with you completely, now that I look at the overall situation again. If Azerbaijan does decide to retake it, perhaps Armenian forces could also push into Nakhichevan and other areas that once belonged to historical Armenia. So, if anything, it may even be their loss. -- Clevelander 21:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

BTW, if Karabakh were to be a seperate country do you think that it should include the rest of the Kalbajar rayon and all of Lachin as well? I think it should, but I'm not sure about the remaining occupied territories. Also, do you think it would be better as a seperate republic or as a part of Armenia (or maybe even an autonomous region of Armenia)? -- Clevelander 21:18, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Very fascinating discussion. A lot of what Mr. Giragosian says makes sense. I agree, in particular, with his closing thoughts that the younger generation of Azerbaijan maybe the greatest threat to Karabakh in the future. The corruption in the Azeri military, as well as the Armenian military as discussed was also eye-opening. He also makes some interesting observations on Georgia and how all three of the states in the Southern Caucasus are gradually moving towards different spheres (Georgia = Europe; Azerbaijan = Central Asia; Armenia = Russia). I'm also beginning to see that Aliyev isn't as bad as I thought he was (still authoritarian, but not as harsh as I thought). Giragosian brings in a good obersvation of how he seems to be under pressure from his father's advisers, much like Bashar al-Assad of Syria, as he points out. He also speaks of an eventual impatience between the US and Azerbaijan. Furthermore, I never actually knew how much the Caucasus states wanted to move away from Turkish influence (and it now makes me see the recent Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline as a desperate effort by Turkey to bring both Georgia and Azerbaijan into its sphere of influence, while at the same time isolating Armenia). Overall, again, I found it to be a very interesting discussion. -- Clevelander 00:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm still curious, though, do you think it would be better as a seperate republic or as a part of Armenia (or maybe even an autonomous region of Armenia)? -- Clevelander 02:18, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Great news! Look at this: http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeniareport/report/en/2006/06/00DB055C-7469-4805-A919-3395C5858110.ASP Makes me think that the peace process is working after all! -- Clevelander 21:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I see what you mean. If that means that Armenia should leave all the territories surrounding Karabakh than that also rules out any possibility of Armenian control over Lachin, Qubadli, Zangilan, Jabrayil, the remainder of Kalbajar, or the Azerbaijan's "Stalinst" enclaves in Armenia, all of which, I think, are too important to give up for both geographical and historical reasons. Sort of elaborating on your earlier analogy, I personally don't want to see the "Woods of Aramanyak" surrounded by a "Land of Eternal Fire". Anyway, though, I doubt Robert Kocharian, a resident Karabakhian, veteran, and activist would stand for it.

Admittedly I didn't read the whole thing when I sent it to you. I just got excited by the headline. -- Clevelander 22:22, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

In response to your question on the Karabakh talk page: Self-determination was rejected in the name of threats of military aggression and vows to "liberate" a region of people who despise their would-be "liberators." -- Clevelander 01:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Aghdam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agdam

dunno if all this is true or some Azeri media props again ...

Country survey for Wikipedia:WikiProject Armenia

Which country do you live in specifically (I'm doing this so I can include a flag next to your name on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Armenia participation list). -- Clevelander 20:07, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

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WOW!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Revolution

Check this out!

I've seen it. You need to look at his other articles. I don't think we're dealing with a pov fork here. The article requires a copyedit, the article's name should be changed as well.--Eupator 18:36, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

You oughta request an assessment of the NK War article here: [3]--Eupator 18:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

The intent is indeed suspicious.--Eupator 18:58, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Marshall and Eupator, I put a notice about this on WikiProject Armenia. Be sure to help out in anyway you can to improve these articles. -- Clevelander 20:59, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Drastamat_Kanayan&action=history

thjis guy keeps deleting dro from Armenian people category!

ASALA

What I gave as referneces to the article are books by 2 independent authors, most of the sites on internet may have direcly copied the contents of the book without referencing, but with proper referencing it's not considered copt violation anymore, it's research. I don't want to suspect your good faith but reverting refenced contributions seems as if you want to hide something from revealed. No offense but being an armenian you're the biased source in the first place.

Vandalism

Please refrain from removing content from Wikipedia, as you did to Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia. It is considered vandalism. If you want to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. 85.101.118.4 19:07, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

WARNING: 3RR

You have been reported on the Administrator's notice board for the violation of 3RR on the article Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia. Please stop reverting the page, Wikipedia is not the place to push your political ideology. Keep in mind that you might well be blocked from editing Wiki content. Kültigin ^(talk) 19:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Can you count up to 4? You have reverted the same page (lets count together) 1...2...3...4 times in 24 hours, thus you have violated the rule. No offense but unfortunately it's a pity that you can't sum up 4 respective numbers at a time. Kültigin ^(talk) 19:29, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

correct

Marshal if you think that i am a sicko who is making personal stories or my grand father was lying what can I say to you. I actually regret telling you about my personal life now.neurobio 00:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Ottoman Reference

More POV by this guy can be seen at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Van

and Caucusus Campaign

A work-in-progress

Hey Marshall,

I'm in the process of compiling a comprehensive chronology of the post-Armenian Genocide period. Tell me what you think: Post Armenian Genocide chronology -- Clevelander 19:25, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Any comments? Questions? I think I may need to cite my references, but anyway. -- Clevelander 15:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it's pretty good so far. Were there any Armenians residing in Kelbajar at the time of the invasion by Armenian forces? -- Clevelander 15:58, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, did Greece, Lebanon, or Syria aid Armenia during the conflict in any way? We still have the latter two on the Karabakh conflict box and I was wondering if there was anything to back that up. -- Clevelander 16:00, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

First Republic in 1915? Waat?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Armenian_Republic_%281915%29

and this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_volunteer_units

Turkish railway project threatens Armenia with isolation

Hey Marshall, have you heard about this? -- Clevelander 20:26, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Check out his talk page and tell me what you think. I'm going to warn other uses only when I get a response back from him. I don't want to take the same path as that anon and inform every user on Wikipedia whenever he creates a new article. -- Clevelander 21:42, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

ok

unfortunately this is just the type of mentality that makes dialogue impossible. You are angry saying that we dont respect your death and we deny but what you do is prety much the same. We are ready to accept this as an ethnic cleansing and say sorry but accepting it as genocide above all means insulting the truth and our own deads.neurobio 02:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Re

You've got to be kidding me.--Eupator 17:43, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Armenian volunteer units

Hey Marshall, did you nominate this for deletion yet? I'm not sure if I should or not myself. What do you think? Regards, Clevelander 23:15, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Great job! The quotes do enhance the article's quality, I think. Especially interesting was the one issued by the Azerbaijan SSR government in response to the 1988 Leninakan Earthquake. Your latest editions are also great and I'm interested to read about what happens next. Once you have this article completed, I think I'm going to nominate it for "featured article" status. It's well-researched and well-written. Keep it up!

I'm trying to get Golbez to remove the "Armenian Revolution" redirect as I've removed the link from all the pages that OttomanReference stuck it too (in some cases it was just thrown in at random places within credible works such as the Caucasus Campaign article). As you know I nominated it for deletion, but I decided to reverse my position as my argument to begin with was weak and I knew that was an Armenian uprising at Van (similar to that of Musa Dagh - in pure self-defense against advancing Turkish death squads). OttomanReference makes it sound as though it were a revolution, on par with that of the Bolsheviks'. My objective (and I assume the objective for the other Armenian editors here on Wikipedia) would be to set the historical record straight. -- Clevelander 21:05, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I changed to "Van Resistance" as the name "Van Defence" can vary (you used the British accent spelling but in in the United States, "Defense" is used alternatively). The word "resistance" was suggested by Fadix and I think it describes the event the best. -- Clevelander 21:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Greetings

Hi Stifle, I was hoping you can place the article, the Armenian Genocide to be protected because of a recent war reverting. Several users have committed the 3RR rule 2 times over a very minor issue and I was hoping you can assess the situation and carry out whatever needs to be done as you see fit. Thank you.--MarshallBagramyan 21:45, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I will look into this. In future, however, you should place such requests on Wikipedia:Requests for page protection, as if the admin, like me, that you contact is away, it means the request goes longer without being fulfilled. Stifle (talk) 21:47, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Copyright problems with Image:40634281 azerbaijan 238.jpg

An image that you uploaded, Image:40634281 azerbaijan 238.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Copyright problems because it is a suspected copyright violation. Please look there if you know that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), and then provide the necessary information there and on its page, if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.

Unfortunately this one's going to be tough to get away with - it's an AP image and we rarely push our luck with those. AP value their image archive (it's extensive, and valuable) so aren't too liberal about other people's use of their copyrighted material. There doesn't seem to be a strong fair use case - Wikipedia's use of this material doesn't appear to be transformational (we aren't using it in a different way to AP's clients like the BBC do) under American fair use law. TheGrappler 00:31, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Great Job.

		The Barnstar of National Merit
		Hello there, buddy:) I am hereby giving you this barnstar for your great work on Armenia-related articles, especially concerning the modern period and the Liberation War of Artsakh. Keep up the great work. TigranTheGreat 10:27, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

T-34 for Featured Article

I think I have corrected or responded to all of the objections at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/T-34/archive1. User:Kirill Lokshin, who filed the first and most complete critique, has changed his vote to "support". I haven't followed every single objector's suggestion, so please have a look at the article and let me know if you would still like to see any changes, or if you are willing to give it support for FA. Thanks for the comments—the FA review has already resulted in some notable improvements to the article. —Michael Z. 2006-07-13 17:47 Z

Suggested reading

Hey Marshall, you may want to check out the book The Armenia-Azerbaijan Conflict: Causes and Implications by Michael P. Croissant. It gives a very interesting history about Karabakh's Soviet division and of the alliance between Nariman Narimanov (the Bolshevik leader of Azerbaijan) and Stalin. -- Clevelander 00:27, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Armenians in Nakhichevan

Hey Marshall, Clevelander here on another computer. I have a question. According to Tim Potier's book, Conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh, Abkhazia, and South Ossetia: A Legal Appraisal, a referendum was held to determine the future of Nakhichevan in 1920, a move that he states was supported by Lenin himself. Potier's book then says that 90% of the population voted in favor of becoming part of the Azerbaijan SSR as an autonomous republic. Now, according to Fadix, 40% of Nakhichevan's population at the time was Armenian and he says that they boycotted the referendum. I'm curious to see if this indeed happened or not, because I've seen that figure (40% Armenian) in other sources. I was wondering, could you verify these claims (both in numbers and in the referendum boycott)? Thanks! -- Clevelander 12:41, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Complete Karabakh War article

Excellent job! I can't wait to see the remaining portion (on human rights violations, etc.). Again, I think the quotes really enhance the quality of the article. -- Clevelander 20:50, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Crucified Armenian women during the genocide

Hey Marshall, where did you find this image?: Image:Armenianwomencrucified.jpg. I'm curious because it seems to be more blurry than other photographs of the genocide. Was it taken by Armin T. Wegner or someone else? -- Clevelander 22:34, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

So an old man like you, talking about neutrality and POV pushers... I hope by accusing lutherian , you are not claiming you are neutral in all this. Because you are one of the most biased people in this. There had been -very grave- changes without even bothering to the talk page, and you just shut your eyes and reverted to those versions. Do you really think is that so easy?

--128.211.201.37 18:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Nakhichevan

Hey Marshall, check out the Nakhichevan page and tell me what you think. I did a lot of research on its post-Imperial Russia history. -- Clevelander 02:35, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

You may want to check out the Nakhichevan talk page. Is there anyway I can verify my information regarding massacres in Nakhichevan? -- Clevelander 19:58, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey!

Wow, that's pretty impressive man. The person who gave me the photo was Ldingley, so I suggest you contact him. BTW, I got your message from about a month ago, is the conflict resolved? —Khoikhoi 23:28, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Nagorno-Karabakh War

Apologies. The article has now passed into a "Good Article". I should have put it on hold. Thanks, and sorry! Iolakana|^T 11:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Languages

Hi There! Can you translate my name in what language you know please, and then post it Here. I would be very grateful if you do (if you know another language apart from English and the ones on my userpage please feel free to post it on) P.S. all th translations are in alpahbetical order so when you add one please put it in alpahbetical order according to the language. Thanks!!! Abdullah Geelah 15:59, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!!! Pass the message around! Abdullah Geelah 17:05, 29 July 2006 (UTC)