User talk:Markwhite01

Welcome!

Hello, Markwhite01, and welcome to Wikipedia! My name is Shalor and I work with Wiki Education; I help support students who are editing as part of a class assignment.

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If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 19:08, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

General comment

The material in the article needs additional detail and more images. Markwhite01 (talk) 18:48, 26 February 2020 (UTC) i created a sandbox page and added the complete text of the original posting. ````

Response to Peer Review Azvdo.art (talk) 14:57, 19 April 2020 (UTC)Azvdo.art

Thank you Mark! Yes, the extra photos of Zeytun Gospels canon tables was unnecessary, I deleted the ones that were put there by original article writer, I created the gallery; I wasn’t sure how to delete the side photos until after week 12, which you saw during your review.

I added citations to the 3 sections, and continue to add citations. It was a slow process until I realized I could just add the ISB Number. I will also be adding more detail or links like you recommended to some of the scribes mentioned in my history section.

Cheers Scott

Peer Review Posted on 04/08, Reposting in this format.

Mark White-Wikipedia Article “Peer Review” by Azvdo.art (talk) 16:48, 08 April 2020 (UTC)Azvdo.art

The article has a great amount of content! I can definitely see where I need to beef up my article; I need more actual descriptions of my gospel and how it is structured. I think you did an excellent job in explaining how the manuscript is laid out and its contents. Along with an in depth history about the period.

In your first paragraph Ottonian is mentioned, I did have to google “Ottonian vs Ottoman” right away (I wasn’t sure if they were interchangeable). Could there be a link for that? Then at least the reader can hover over it and get a quick zap of info about it.

Visually the pictures are just kind of there, not categorized under a “gallery” heading. Maybe putting them under a gallery heading would help structure them, allowing other users to add to them in an organized way. It looks like an editor previous to your input put them there.

The word “superb” stuck out to me after reading it a second time in the first paragraph. It sounds biased the second time around. Kind of like praising the manuscript above and beyond, that it is the best manuscript, instead of saying it is one of the best.

Is “Reichenau” an island in Germany where the manuscript was produced? Could you link that, I wasn’t sure what it meant when it was referenced, whether it was a style, people or a place? Update: after reading into your “Art History” section I see that Reichenau is a reference to a monastery, no need to link the island seeing how it is on the island and that link is used under the description of that monastery on Wikipedia under “Reichenau Abbey”.

Here are a few link ideas that have correlating Wikipedia pages. Some readers may not know the definitions, ie high school kids who are researching, at least then they’d have the option to hover over the words so they can read a quick description, especially if they’re not inclined to do so on their own.

Linkable words- -Ottonian -“illuminations” (can link to “illuminated manuscript”) -Otto III -“canon tables” (can link to “Eusebian Canons”) -Charlemagne -frieze -Reichenau Monastery (can link to “Reichenau Abbey”) Mentioned in last section “Importance of the Work”

Maybe edit out the use of cover due to redundancy?

-Revised- The ivory inlay representing the Dormition of the Virgin was placed on the cover rather than inside the manuscript because the text of the four gospels does not include reference to the Virgin Mary's death.

-Original- The ivory inlay on the cover representing the Dormition of the Virgin was placed on the cover rather than inside the manuscript because the text of the four gospels does not include reference to the Virgin Mary's death.

Question- Was the book considered “symbolic of Christ” because it was so beautiful? I’m wondering if you could better connect that idea.

Also, the use of emperor and Otto fluctuates; maybe start with Otto then use emperor after?

Under Ottonian Period in Art History…“His reign was not peaceful. for example,” capitalize For.

“Artists added elaborate and detailed illustrations.Finally, a cover was added to the book.” Space needed between “illustrations. Finally”.

Under “Ottonian Period in Art History”…the last few paragraphs are spaced further apart than the previous ones.

The last sentence in this paragraph reads funny… Otto III, his ancestors and some of his successors lived in a period named Ottonian and art produced in this time is termed Ottonian art. The Ottonian period started in 955 and continued until the late 11th century.[5] The Ottonian emperors were close to the pope and used his spiritual role to claim a God-given right to rule. They built a palace in Rome to be near him. They also sought to be close to Byzantium to take advantage of their superior strength. Otto III's mother was a Byzantine princess. They also benefited from exposure to art was produced in these other areas.

Consider revising the order of the paragraphs in the “…Art History” section for better continuity, see moved paragraphs in bold.

The Ottonian Period in Art History[edit source] Otto III, his ancestors and some of his successors lived in a period named Ottonian and art produced in this time is termed Ottonian art. The Ottonian period started in 955 and continued until the late 11th century.[5] The Ottonian emperors were close to the pope and used his spiritual role to claim a God-given right to rule. They built a palace in Rome to be near him. They also sought to be close to Byzantium to take advantage of their superior strength. Otto III's mother was a Byzantine princess. They also benefited from exposure to art produced in these other areas.[7]

Otto III was the third and last in a line of Ottonians that were Holy Roman Emperors. Otto was only three when his father, Otto II died, and he became King of the areas of Germany, Switzerland, and northern Italy (modern day designations). The Ottonian emperors felt they were the equal to the greatest rulers.[7] He was designated the Holy Roman Emperor by the Pope when he was 16 years old. His reign was not peaceful. For example, he and the pope responded to a rebellion by mutilating the face and blinding one of his former teachers.[4] He died when he was 21 in 1022.[8] Following Otto III the title went to Henry II and then to several Saxon rulers. The Ottonian period ended with Henry IV.

While Otto's reign was not without controversy, he is recognized as one of few individuals that had such a great impact by the age 21. His advisors, who were were talented and well known, did not always agree, but did achieve cohesion due to Otto's character.[4]

The influence of Charlemagne was important to Otto I following his interest in ancient Roman sculpture, painting, architecture, metal work, and manuscripts.[5] Key to much of the work being done was the connection to the Roman work. Often medieval emperors modeled behavior and art on the classical history.[10]

The manuscript was given by Otto III to Henry II who donated it to the Bavarian State Library in Munich to protect the material value in its binding and cover rather than the artistic value. [4]

• Otto III giving Henry II the manuscript is a nice way to wrap up this section. I moved some paragraphs into the following section…

• Would the following be better in “Importance of the Work” or adding another Heading for this info? Seems like this info isn’t neceassrily describing the Ottonian Era as much as it is describing/how the work is being done and about the monastery where it was done…

The works of the Ottonian period can be traced back to work done during Charlemagne’s reign. Evidence is found in the comparison of (there’s an extra space between these words in your original paragraph) evangelist portraits in the Lorsch Gospels produced at one of the Court Schools of Charlemagne to the portraits in the Codex Gero produced by the Reichenau monastery. The comparison shows the artists at Reichenau used the work from the Charlemagne era as the model for their work.[4]

Since the Gospel Book of Otto III was written before the invention of the printing press it was prepared manually. Extensive labor was required. The hides of animals were dried and processed to make the parchment for the book. Inks were mixed and the parchment lined to facilitate the lettering. An existing version was used by the scribe as the source. Artists added elaborate and detailed illustrations.Finally, a cover was added to the book. For the most lavish books, the cover would have jewel stones and ivory engravings.[9] The Gospel Book of Otto III was a fine example of these techniques.[3]

The first letters of a page was considered art. Sometimes the first letter occupied an entire page, with intricate borders on the page and complex interlacing within the letter. Following the Charlemagne experience, the calligraphy was more important to the Ottonians than the pictures because Charlemagne condemned the worship of images.[4]

The lack of status of the painters and scribes that produced the illuminated books is evident from the lack of attribution in the books. A few scribes, such as Liuthar, the scribe thought to have produced the Gospel Book of Otto III, were recognized unlike many of the highly skilled scribes that produced these works. Imagine the scribes and artists working in the monastery’s scriptorium for years on one book.[4]

Manuscripts during this period developed at some of the major monasteries, such as the Reichenau, and in schools of the bishops. Historians are able to trace the development of techniques from the early 10th century at the Reichenau monastery to works done there in the late 11th century so that they can identify works from the Ottonian period.[4]

The art produced at the Reichenau monastery was recognized as exemplary works. The origin of the Reichenau works has been traced back to works produced for Charlemagne but with many of the illustrations of individuals flattened compared to the Charlemagne works. The Ottonian works were less spiritual than those from the Charlemagne period. Figures in Ottonian work were presented with a frontal view rather than from the side.[4]

Great Job! I hope this all makes sense and aren't ridiculous suggestions! Cheers! Azvdo.art (talk) 17:49, 8 April 2020 (UTC)Azvdo.art

Wells Cathedral edits

Hi there @Markwhite01, Glad to see you are participating in this project again. I want to bring your attention to your edit on the Wells Cathedral article. I see you provided a source, but the majority of the content was your own personal commentary. If you want to have a discussion, then the talk page of the article would be the page for that, not the body of the article. Let me know if you have any questions about this. Brianda (Wiki Ed) (talk) 21:28, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

could my comments be revised to better to better follow the source, but not appear as a personal opinion. I think his comment about considering the architecture as the people at the time would is valid. do you? Markwhite01 (talk) 16:49, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

and thank you for your comments. Markwhite01 (talk) 16:49, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

@Markwhite01 In reading over your text, I am not sure if an encyclopedia is the best place for the kinds of considerations that the author is posing. I think their book or essay is a good place for those kinds of questions, but for an encyclopedic article, we want to focus on information that is known about a topic, focus on the facts. Does that make sense?

Also considering this is a Featured Article, which means that it is among Wikipedia's best work, it might be worth starting a discussion on the talk page about the information you'd like to add, to see what others think. Brianda (Wiki Ed) (talk) 21:41, 23 February 2024 (UTC)