User talk:Malkee
Welcome!
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April 2011
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Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute to the encyclopedia, but when you add or change content, as you did to the article Angela Lansbury, please cite a reliable source for the content of your edit. This helps maintain our policy of verifiability. See Wikipedia:Citing sources for how to cite sources, and the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. GcSwRhIc (talk) 14:07, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
On female Vikings
[edit]Hi. I saw you post on the Vikings talk-page and wanted to give some feedback.
I take it, that you by "Viking" means "Viking warrior"? Many sources (especially Scandinavian sources) use the term Viking to mean "the Scandinavian people of the Viking Age", which would include men, women and children. Some older sources outside Scandinavia use the term Viking to mean "the Scandinavian attackers, raiders and settlers their ancestors had contact with". We could discuss the meaning of the term "Viking" for several days, but I take it, that you mean warriors of Scandinavian origin from the Viking Age. Correct me if I am wrong.
What I wanted to let you know is that female warriors are known from the Sagas. And as your own research has revealed, the concept of "shieldmaidens" also indicates a tradition of females engaging in war-activities. The 1100's historian Saxo Grammaticus wrote about them and the Ragnarok book also describes women's role and status in the Viking society. But these are all stories made up after the Viking Age ended (as far as I know) and can probably not be used as solid facts. You could perhaps find some proper sources about the subject out there, I am just not aware of any from the top of my head. Will let you know, if something pops up. You could try to follow some of the general sources on the Vikings page and perhaps something will emerge.
I didn't wanted to post all this on the Vikings talk-page because I haven't got any solid sources on female Viking warriors as said. But they are mentioned in many Viking related books and media.
RhinoMind (talk) 19:40, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
- Btw. The Viking settlers in Greenland and North America also "brought" women with them. That is a solid fact. I vaguely remembers a book describing Viking women fighting of native indians there with their fellow male warriors. RhinoMind (talk) 19:46, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
Wanted to share this: Shield-Maidens and Cross-Dressing RhinoMind (talk) 01:01, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Indent your replies
[edit]Indent your replies please. SpinningSpark 09:04, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Female vikings
[edit]Dear Malkee, viking means pirat, what you are refering to is Norsemen, the people in Scandinavia before christianity.
It sounds a little bit more boring, not so spectalar as the word viking, but at least something which would suit your story, and which can be researched, both historical and in the archelogy.
Of those Norsemen, very, very few were vikings. Numerous sources in Sweden name and mention viking-watchers, people who guarded the country against vikings. The mor reserach you will doabout norsemen, the more you will how incorrect it is to label them all vikings.
Most of the kings, sometimes refered to as viking-kings in angloxaxian litterature, were in fact the vikings worse enemies. Harald I of Norway is mentioned as he cleaned the shores of vikings:
- At last, Harald was forced to make an expedition to the West, to clear the islands and the Scottish mainland of some Vikings who tried to hide there.. (the original text says in english translation:
- King Harald heard that the vikings, who were in the West sea in winter, plundered far and wide in the middle part of Norway; and therefore every summer he made an expedition to search the isles and out-skerries (1) on the coast. Wheresoever the vikings heard of him they all took to flight, and most of them out into the open ocean. At last the king grew weary of this work, and therefore one summer he sailed with his fleet right out into the West sea. First he came to Hjaltland (Shetland), and he slew all the vikings who could not save themselves by flight. Then King Harald sailed southwards, to the Orkney Islands, and cleared them all of vikings. Thereafter he proceeded to the Sudreys (Hebrides), plundered there, and slew many vikings who formerly had had men-at-arms under them.
The scandinavian culture was rich long before the viking age, as well as after wards, if you are interested in the culture, the ship making, the discovery of new land, establisging of new cities, it is here you should search, while true vikings are very rare, maybe less then 50 vikings are known by name, and their activities were only piracy.
The first ever documented person, labelled a viking, was Alexander the greats father, king Philip II of Macedonia, who were involved in piracy for about two years, he is mentioned vikingus in the old english tranalation, where the original word is pirate:
- Philippus vero post longam obsidionem, ut pecuniam quam obsidendo exhauserat, praedando repararet, piraticam adgressus est, translated into:ac he scipa gegaderade, and i vicingas wurdon.
In this time the word pirat was not used in the english language, the latin piraticam was directly translated to vicingus.
So, as you may soon find out, there were no tribe, no ethnical group, no nation, and no people called vikings. A greek/macedonian king, was refered to as viking, during the period when he committed piracy. But he was not labelled viking before, or after the that period as a pirat.
Since the last 50 years the label has become romantically misused, and today the public, confused and misinformed, dont know what a viking was.
Some, may also generously claim that tradesmen during this time could be labelled a viking, but the sources tells us clearly that this is also not true:
- Vikings, as any pirate, can not be labelled as tradesmen, (or any civil profession) because tradesmen doesnt perform piracy (as tradesman, but sometimes as pirats): Egil Skallagrimsson about Björn farman: Icelandic: Björn var farmaður mikill, var stundum í víking, en stundum í kaupferðum; Björn var hinn gervilegasti maður. (english: Björn was a great traveller; sometimes as viking, sometimes as tradesman)
But you will find out, and you will see, that for most, or 99% of the scandinavian people, the norsemen, the vikings were actually their worst enemies, and thei defence fleet, the leidang, were upto a large part established for the defence against vikings. As you may understand, noone will be helped but yet another publication which mix up those things, just because the word viking sells better. Most people value true knowledge, and find it amusing when they leanr something new, rather when disinformation is repeated yet another time.
This is why there was no female vikings, since vikings were not a people, it ws actually an activity, probably mostly considered illegal in the vikings home countries, and the history has not mentioned one single woman as viking. While of course norse people consisted of 50% of both sex, which you refered to. Those people, who existed before 800, and after 1066, still exist. The Swedish kingdom, NEVER a viking kingdom, as it has sometimes been refered to, was mentioned already 78 AD by Tacitus. And already then Tacitus tells about the swedish war fleet, the cavalry, and how the use of weapons weas very regulated, within the rules of the community, contrary to how the vikings behaved.
It is simply time, that the scandinavian people, as a confirmed ethnic group, with a well reserached history, once again is accepted as the people who had an advanced navigtion knowledge, an advanced ship making industry, and an advnaced defence organzation, long before the viking era, and that the vikings may have been less than 1% of their population, and should not be used as a label on my forefathers.
Maybe you will write that story, the truth, and not yet a prepetition of myths and cartoon like characters. The discrimination of the scandinavian people, that started with the "viking cult" in the sixties, with "viking museum", "viking ships" (the true term is long ships) has not really been of any scientific use, when dealing with this true ethnical group´s history. Adding "viking women" which never existed, doesnt really help the situation.
best regards,
Dan Koehl (talk) 18:17, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
- According to Gesta Danorum, Alfhild, daughter of the Geatish king Siward, was a shield maiden, who had her own fleet of longships, with crews of young female pirates, who raided along the coasts of the Baltic Sea.Dan Koehl (talk) 17:41, 9 May 2015 (UTC)