User talk:MadmanBot/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Adding listas

Hi, please check the rules for human name sort keys at WP:NAMESORT. Especially note that:

• ... accented letters and ligatures should be replaced by their unaccented or separated counterparts.
• The first letter of each word should be in upper case, and all subsequent letters should be in lower case, regardless of the correct spelling of the name.

MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 21:50, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Most of the contributions listed here are my fixes of your edits. You may also be interested to see discussions here and here about sorting Arabic (and Chinese) names, which I did not attempt to fix.

I realize that in many cases, you used a sort key which was found in the article, so the original fault lies with the users who added erroneous sort keys there, but I figured you'd still want to know about this. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 00:45, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your advice. In almost every case, I used the article sortkey as-is, and in most cases that turned out to be correct, as expected; those who contributed to the article knew best how that article should have been sorted. But in this case, I am entirely at fault. I pedantically changed some sortkeys that were unaccented to match their title more exactly, just as I changed some sortkeys that were only the last name to include the first name, after a comma. I was trying to match the article title as closely as possible when possible, and that was not correct in this case. Thanks for pointing it out and I will also be reviewing the contributions of MadmanBot automatically to make sure everything was fixed. Cheers! — madman bum and angel 05:17, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Upon reviewing those discussions you referenced, 1.) I did not know there already was a ListasBot, which is good, and 2.) I didn't make up any listas parameters myself; I basically used the sortkey to tell where to split the name. I noticed many sortkeys for Arabic and Chinese names that were not what I had expected, but I passed them on to MadmanBot anyhow, assuming they were correct; I didn't ever try to determine where the surname and given name were myself. I'm sure in some cases the editors of the article were wrong, but hopefully those cases should have been few and far between. Given that there's already a ListasBot, I think I may cease MadmanBot's assisted edits, though. I was trying to deal with the backlog, but I'm sure Mikaey is more informed than I am in the relevant guidelines, having been doing this longer. — madman bum and angel 05:23, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your responses. As you discovered, sort keys can be very tricky and complicated (such as WP:COP#Nobility). I believe that ListasBot has made several complete passes through Category:Biography articles without listas parameter, so most of the remaining ones are likely to need either a human's input or a bot with logic beyond what ListasBot does (adding listas from the article's DEFAULTSORT, {{Lifetime}}, {{Persondata}}, etc.). I often work on it, but even with AWB's help, it's slow going, as I do manually inspect every edit, and often change them. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 06:39, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Excellent. Well, my algorithm should catch articles that don't use DEFAULTSORT, but only have one sort key nonetheless. I'm going to probably re-do the whole run, inspecting the articles and reviewing Wikipedia:Categorization of people at the same time. The 36,000 article backlog shouldn't be done as quickly, but it should be done correctly. Cheers! :) — madman bum and angel 13:19, 5 August 2009 (UTC)