User talk:LoekVV

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Edits on polling of Joe Biden

Hi, I undid your edits on the 2022 polling of Joe Biden. First off though I want to compliment you on all your hard work putting together the polling numbers table and creating those charts. That’s a lot of code to finagle and it’s thankless work but you did it and I have to really give you a lot of credit for your efforts.

As far as your edits, there is simply no reason to mention Donald Trump’s polling at all. Why? Because it isn’t an article about Donald Trump, it’s an article about the Biden Administration’s polling. Also, the article you cite and the statement you make are in opposition with one and other. You make a glaring omission in the author’s point that Biden had a strong base of support when he was elected where Trump had not and that Trump improved over time and built support where Biden’s loss of support was from his base. I’m of a sense that isn’t something you want to highlight.

Also, we’re talking specifically about 2022 here.

Second, the other citation is from an opinion piece and should be used with great care - see WP:RSEDITORIAL. I’m not wanting to get into a battle here simply put though you have no need to mention his predecessor specifically in the context of an article about the Biden Administration’s polling. That’s due to the Biden Administration’s actions, not his predecessor and justifying the numbers by using the comparison is violation WP:NPOV 71.190.233.44 (talk) 13:52, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I understand your decision. I added too much information, which, when writing, I did not realize was inappropiate for that article.

What I do think should change about the current lead of the article is "Biden's approval/disapproval numbers have become the worst numbers of any President since Harry Truman.". Truman did receive low approval ratings during a time of inflation, but Trump has had lower approval ratings than Biden too. The FiveThirtyEight page you cited also shows that one could argue his approval ratings can be compared to Trump's too.

The text under this page makes clear that Trump has had a lower approval rating than Biden at a certain point: "Biden's approval rating has approached - but has yet to reach - the lowest levels of his predecessor, Donald Trump, who had a 33% approval rating in December 2017."

With this in mind, I believe it is inaccurate to say that Biden's approval numers have become the worst since Truman. Should Biden's approval percentage continue to decline, a comparison to Truman could be more accurate. LoekVV (talk) 21:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I just circled back and saw the edit. I know you cited that article but I’m not seeing anything to back it up. From what I can tell on the Real Clear Politics site and Five Thirty Eight both Trump’s rating never fell that low. I would restore the comparison because it’s accurate. The numbers for Biden are putrid and getting worse and I even though Trump’s numbers were never good they were never as bad as the current President’s are.

I think you are doing hard work and it’s good work too (and as observed mainly thankless). I went back to see if I could find out why Truman’s numbers were so low at different times in his Presidency just to get a sense of what was going on in the country and it does make for interesting reading what you can find. He had a precipitous drop after opposing promotions for veterans returning home from WWII and then I believe the other drop was after pushing for aid to Europe. In any event Biden’s numbers are in fact the lowest since Truman unless you can back it up because that article doesn’t in fact cite where they are getting the 33% number from. If you can dig up something somewhere that proves it then by all means take it out but if the only thing you have is what’s said in the article w/o a source you likely should restore. 71.190.233.44 (talk) 00:03, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I like documenting Biden's approval ratings. Unfortunately, the chart on the 2022 opinion polling article is still broken :(.

The 33% seems to be from individual polling (a list of individual polls on Trump's approval rating can be found on the 538 Trump approval rating page), but I see you tend to look at the charts on 538 or RealClearPolitics instead, which I think is smart because those charts seem to be based on multiple polls. So I will only look at charts on 538 and RealClearPolitics from now on.

Looking at the charts, this is what I found:

Trump's lowest approval rating on 538 was 36.4% (December 16, 2017) (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/);

Biden's lowest approval rating on 538 so far was 38.0% (yesterday) (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/);

Trump's lowest approval rating on RealClearPolitics was 37.0% (December 13, 2017) (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html) (use the date filter on the bottom left if you want to);

Biden's lowest approval rating on RealClearPolitics so far was 37.1% (yesterday) (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html).

Biden's lowest approval rating on both of these sites isn't as low as Trump's has ever been yet, but Biden's lowest point is so close to Trump's on RealClearPolitics (37.1% vs 37.0%) that I wouldn't be surprised if Biden's approval rating on RealClearPolitics will be under 37.0% in the future.

Once Biden has a lower approval rating than Trump at certain times, I think it would make more sense to state that Biden's approval rating has at times been the lowest since George H. W. Bush, rather than stating it's at times been the lowest since Harry Truman. When scrolling down to look at the charts for other presidents on the 538 page, you'll see H. W. Bush received a 27.6% approval rating on day 1,294, day 1,300, and day 1,306. Or you could state it's at certain points been the lowest since George W. Bush, who received an approval rating of 24.6% on October 14 and October 18, 2008, according to the chart on his RealClearPolitics page. Once Biden's approval rating gets lower than 37.0% on Biden's RealClearPolitics chart, I think it would be accurate to state this: "According to RealClearPolitics charts, Biden's approval rating has at certain points been the lowest since George W. Bush's approval rating". LoekVV (talk) 12:08, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That’s a totally reasonable approach and I can endorse it. Is there anything I can do to help you with the charting? 71.190.233.44 (talk) 02:24, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alright. Yesterday, Biden's approval rating on RealClearPolitics was 36.8%, which is probably the worst RealClearPolitics approval rating since George W. Bush.

With respect to the chart, I'm still unsure what the problem is. I'm trying to do some tests. I just put a part of the 2021 approval rating chart on my sandbox, with values from January 25, 2021 to June 17, 2021. When I changed all year values to 2022, the chart broke (see this edit). The only difference between the two charts is the year. You can see a comparison here. I really don't understand why the 2022 chart displays days of the week on the X axis and why it's not displayed correctly. I don't know what the problem is, so all my edits on the article have to do with new polls/aggregate poll numbers now. LoekVV (talk) 15:35, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like you got it working with that last revision. Sometimes (and I don”t know if this happens to you) I pick up line breaks or other things I didn’t realize were there. It’s necessay to throw something into sublime text or something to see the code correctly. 71.190.233.44 (talk) 21:42, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that that working chart is for 2021. Changing the values to 2022—the year which we need for the 2022 opinion polling article—breaks the chart. LoekVV (talk) 16:22, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You really deserve this!

For all your hard work on the Biden approval ratings page. Truly a thankless task but your hard work is noticed!

	The Working Man's Barnstar
	message 71.190.233.44 (talk) 02:42, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@71.190.233.44 Thank you so much! :) That's nice! I'll add it to my profile. Still not sure how to get the chart to be displayed correctly on the 2022 article, but I'm sure we'll figure it out someday ;P LoekVV (talk) 16:02, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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