User talk:Limelightangel

Educational Project Autumn/Fall 2024

For the 10th year running, from October - December 2024, I am facilitating an Educational Project by students of LIUC, Italy, with a course page at: https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/LIUC_-_Universit%C3%A0_Cattaneo/Digital_Technology_(October_-_December,_2024). These students are new to the Wikipedia platform. They will have completed mandatory WikiEd Training for Students modules and have regular tutor workshops and review meetings during the project. They are also supported with a course website, extensive help resources, class lectures, a detailed project document and intensive tutor feedback via draft Talk pages and in meetings. They are learning to edit following Wikipedia rules, with learning and assessment criteria including topic acceptability, content relevance, linking, style/grammar, sourcing, image use and copyright, use of draft Talk pages, and page formatting. They are open to any advice on improvements of their draft pages in conformity to Wikipedia requirements and guidelines, and any help useful for the enhancement of the page will be gladly accepted. Some of the student User account names will have 'LIUC' in them so be similar. Edits by different users may have identical IP addresses due to the use of the university network. These users and draft pages will be listed on the WikiEd dashboard once they get started in mid-October. Last year several of the student team's new pages were rated B-Class when submitted for review (e.g. Croveo ). As in the past, I'm happy to listen to other editors to quickly resolve any issues if they arise. Limelightangel (talk) 12:56, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Block

Hello Limelightangel. I see I've been here before, years ago. I will unblock the accounts, but let me place two notes. First, the account I looked at first had overlap with someone, an LTA, who was blocked yesterday for socking--and the student account made very similar edits (copy edits by someone who clearly was not an L1 speaker or writer in English). I have already emailed that blocking administrator to ask for their advice.

Second, I just saw that user page image on one of the accounts, but I cannot really figure out what that means. I strongly recommend you run your project through the educational project. The edits from your students do NOT at all indicate that they are in an educational project; taking the guided sandbox tour is no longer a giveaway since many socks and vandals use that too. If I had seen any edits that for instance looked like the editor was signing up for a project, or an edit that linked to your user space, maybe to a sign-up sheet, I would have followed that, and that might have prevented this whole affair. Please remember that the things that are automatically clear to you are not always clear to other editors. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 17:17, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, we've been here before, but it's all useful! Many thanks again for your advice, which I'll progress with the students, and thanks for the unblocks. I think in future I need to post the Educational Notice on their User pages too. I have been too focused their draft pages in terms of communicating the project and addressing the many draft issues, rather than independent edits. The user page images relate to evidencing completion of the online Training for Students. There used to be an online badge generated, but no longer. A huge amount of work goes on 'behind the scenes', and several of last year's projects were rated B-Class on submission (e.g. Talk:Curbar Edge. We also have on-going workshops and meetings, plus a course website with all the obvious advice (links, references, style, copyright, plagiarism, images, etc.). But in the early stages it is like 'herding cats', and 'you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink'. Thank you once again for your efforts and advice - which I will share with the class. Limelightangel (talk) 18:23, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And please point your students to WP:OVERLINK. Many of their edits link things that shouldn't be linked at all, like countries and such. Also explain to them that links shouldn't be inline, and that we need secondary sources, not company links. Finally, I have reverted a number of "grammatical fixes" already, since they actually introduced grammatical errors (same with italics, bold). Thank you. Drmies (talk) 17:29, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done, thanks. I monitor it on their drafts, and they've had detailed guidance on this. I'll share WP:OVERLINK with them too, thanks. Limelightangel (talk) 18:24, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Draft_talk:Villa_Toeplitz_(Varese)

Limelightangel, I want to ask you if you can ask your students to be more clear about their status, specifically as part of an educational project. None of the many editors in the history of this draft had indicated anything about what they were doing, and some had very similar user names, which made me very suspicious, especially since that draft is highly promotional. I dropped a note on the talk page of one of them, but got no reply. Transparency is key in such assignments, and I encourage you to enroll your students in our educational arm, via Wikipedia:School and university projects. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 13:05, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Drmies: Thanks for the helpful and patient advice. Yes, I will ask them all to address the issue. I have been trying to get them to start using the draft Talk page properly, and 'learn the rules' for this space. I'll definitely use the educational projects enrollment the next time. Limelightangel (talk) 13:20, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OK. I pasted {{Educational assignment|date=|day=|month=|year=|dateformat=|link=}} on a few article talk pages--you can maybe do that for all of them, filling out as much as you can (see Template:Educational assignment). That also categorizes them under educational assignments, and that can be helpful. Good luck, Drmies (talk)

OK. Got it. Many thanks. Will do. I've just shared and communicated this discussion and issue with my students Limelightangel (talk) 13:47, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation

Some Gritstone Climbs, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.
The article has been assessed as C-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you are more than welcome to continue submitting work to Articles for Creation.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk.
If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider leaving us some feedback.

Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!

MatthewVanitas (talk) 16:09, 22 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Student editors

Please advise your students to follow some of the basic rules outlined in the Manual of Style, especially those on bolding, duplicate links, and overlinked terms. They have also removed valid {{citation needed}} tags from statements without providing a source. I've been reverting quite a few of their edits over the past few hours and see that there's still hundreds that need to be checked for compliance. Sounder Bruce 10:41, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks. I will reinforce this with them, be having meetings with them to review their recent work and the many issues. They have repeatedly had this advice but clearly need it emphasizing. Thanks for the feedback. Limelightangel (talk) 14:47, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright problem on Draft:Asplund Pavilion

Hi!

I was looking at this version of Draft:Asplund Pavilion, a draft created as a part of a class for which you are listed as facilitator. The version copies several paragraphs verbatim from "From the Hut to the Totem: An Archetypal Analysis of the Holy See's Eleven Chapels at the Venice Architecture Biennale" a 2022 paper written by Marta Isabel Sena Augusto and Vidal Gómez Martínez that was published in the Athens Journal of Architecture. The paragraphs were added to the Wikipedia draft as follows, by the following students:

A sentence that was lifted verbatim from the paper (beginning with "At the 2018 Venice Biennale, the Holy See") was added by LIUC7michelle05 in this edit on 4 December.
A few sentences that were lifted from the paper (beginning with "The Asplund Pavilion belongs to" and "It is the archetype most commonly used by") were added by LIUC7michelle05 in this edit on 5 December.
A paragraph that copies from the paper (beginning with "In the 2018 edition of the Venice Biennale") was added by LIUC7alberto in this edit on 5 December. (This paragraph would be split into two paragraphs in this edit, also by LIUC7alberto).
Another paragraph that copies (beginning with "It is evident that among these approaches ") was added by LIUC7alberto in this edits on 5 December.
Another sentence that copies from the paper (beginning with "In the hut archetype") was added by LIUC7alberto in this series of edits on 5 December.

The article from the Athens Journal of Architecture is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 4.0 International license. These licensing terms require prohibit re-use for commercial purposes. While your students' use in a classroom setting would ordinarily be OK under this license (provided that proper attribution is given), use of this material verbatim is incompatible licenses under which Wikipedia itself is published (CC BY-SA 4.0 and the GFDL), because these licenses allow commercial re-use. For this reason, Wikipedia rejects licenses that limit use exclusively to Wikipedia or for non-commercial purposes. If the paper is to be used as a source for the Wikipedia draft, the content in the draft will need to be in the students' own words.

For these reasons, I have tagged the affected sections as constituting a copyright problem, and I have listed it on today's copyright problems list. The sections will need to be re-written to comply with our copyright policy. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns; I'd be more than happy to help.

— Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 18:58, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, and thanks for flagging this up at draft stage. These edits were made in a workshop today so I missed them during a draft review yesterday (4/5/12) when I posted 9 comments for them on the draft Talk page (under 'Review 4/12/23' on Draft_talk:Asplund_Pavilion. As part of this Educational Project the students have been repeatedly reminded of issues related to plagiarism, licensing and copyright, which are part of the learning objectives of the project. This has included requiring them to complete the Training for Students modules, class lectures, weekly tutor meetings, and course website posts. This has also included the following recent advice to them: "...this is still plagiarism and will cause you problems - rewrite and synthesize the content for Wikipedia style, NOT copy/translate it." I will make sure that the content is re-written as a matter of urgency and again remind them of the issue. I'll also share your comments with the entire class now to reinforce the learning. Let me know if there is anything else I should do to resolve the issue and have the copyright investigation closed. They're new to the platform, working in a second language and the issue was through ignorance rather than intent. Limelightangel (talk) 20:04, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Red-tailed hawk

I have just sent the following message to the students involved: "@LIUCMaelis7, LIUC.FA, LIUC7carolina, LIUC7alberto, LIUC7Francesca7, and LIUC7michelle05: You need to review the editor's feedback at User talk:Limelightangel, understand the issues and resolve them immediately by removing or rewriting the relevant plagiarized sections. When this has been completed I suggest you notify User talk:Red-tailed hawk and request the removal of the copyright infringement tags. Limelightangel (talk) 20:17, 5 December 2023 (UTC)"[reply]
I have shared our exchange above with the entire class, along with the following message: "Copyright & Plagiarism: Text and Images - The following post from a Wikipedia editor has been placed on my own User Talk page tonight, with my response at the end. Copyright can apply to text in articles as well as to images. In this case, text has been directly copied from a source covered by copyright. The solution, as with all your content, is to never plagiarise content and to always check copyright (for both text and images). I strongly recommend that you all review your own draft content to prevent further issues related to this prior to page submission."

Limelightangel (talk) 20:32, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for the swift reply and for addressing this with the students. I likewise don't see any malice from the students, and I agree that this is something that second-language speakers can struggle with at a much higher rate than native speakers.

The main thing to get the problem closed is just to re-write the sections in their own words; when that happens, let me know so that I can check it and mark the problem as resolved. Alternatively, if you would prefer, I can also delete all the text in the problem sections (except for the formatted references) for them to re-write the sections on their own. The one thing I will note is that the vast majority of the page history since the morning of 4 December is going to have to be revision-deleted because of the copyright issue. This means that you will be unable to view what happened in each specific edit, but you will be able to see who edited the page, at what time they edited the page, and the net change in page size. (This might break automated tools that work by looking at edit histories to establish who wrote what part of a page.) If this is OK, and it doesn't mess with your grading system, I can do that and resolve the tags in the next ~1 hour.

On a separate note, I do really appreciate the work you're doing with your classes. I joined Wikipedia for a class I took as an undergrad, and it makes me happy that there are people like you who are introducing so many students to Wikipedia. You also appear to have set up a good system for training your students (much more than my professor had given me) and you are very hands-on in helping them through this. It's not every day that I encounter a professor who's been doing this for so long and who is so dedicated to teaching students about Wikipedia so thoroughly. I want to express my gratitude for introducing so many students to editing on this project, and I hope for the best going forward. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 21:03, 5 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Red-tailed hawk Thanks once again for your input, help and kind feedback - it's really made my day to get some positive feedback related to this educational project! The students have removed the copyrighted text. Please revision delete the relevant edits and remove the tags. Best wishes. Limelightangel (talk) 09:33, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My pleasure! I've removed the copyrighted text from the source code of the article and tagged the page for revision deletion. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 15:27, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]