User talk:Lairfans12
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Revert
[edit]Please see WP:SPOILER, WP:LEAD. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:22, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
- Why are you removing spoilers from the lead? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:42, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Justin (koavf) -- Because if someone is interested in the movie, but wants to read about the film's production on Wikipedia first, they may have the movie partially ruined for them by seeing a spoiler in the lead section. I thought having a spoiler in the lead went against Wiki guidelines as well. I could be wrong on that, but I don't see spoilers in the lead section of, say, Memento (film). Nor in any other movie article I can think of. I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I honestly don't think that spoiler needs to be in the lead section of the article. There's already enough plot info for people to get the gist of what it's about. Lairfans12 (talk) 16:52, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
- "Spoilers" make you enjoy films more. You're just wrong. The lead should give an overview of the entire article, including the entire plot. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:00, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Justin (koavf) -- Um, way to be diplomatic about it. I'm trying to be nice here because it seems like you're an administrator and I don't want to get banned, but the way you just responded to me was unprofessional. You only addressed one of my points. And to be honest, I don't think you addressed it very well. One study does not definitively prove that everyone likes movies being spoiled. Most people I know say they hate it. I personally dislike it. Beyond that, you didn't address one of my main points: I can not think of a single movie article on Wikipedia that spoils a film in the lead section like the Thoroughbreds article does. Sure, there needs to be a general rundown of the narrative in the lead, but that doesn't entail giving away twists or endings (once again, see the Memento (film) article to understand what I'm talking about). You also didn't respond to my statement that the spoiler policy on Wikipedia is against putting a spoiler in the lead (I could be wrong on this point because I haven't read the policy in full, so I'd appreciate it if you would give me a direct response). If you keep treating me like I'm an idiot, I'm gonna take this to another administrator and try to get the dispute sorted out. Because you're just wasting my time giving me the runaround. Lairfans12 (talk) 01:00, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not an admin and admins can't ban at will, so that's not an issue. Why is it that some users not wanting "spoilers" trumps me wanting a comprehensive overview in the lead? The purpose of a lead is to give an overview of the rest of the article and the plot section is about the entire plot. I would recommend that you read WP:LEAD and WP:SPOILER in full (why haven't you...?) but "spoilers" are not treated differently than any other information here. I edited back when we had spoiler tag warnings and the community realized that it was a bad idea and arbitrary standard: what constitutes a "spoiler"? Is mentioning that MLK got assassinated a "spoiler" of his bio? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:25, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Justin (koavf) -- Thank you for the direct response. I haven't read the policies in full because I'm not a frequent editor and I simply don't have the time. I know that the plot section is about the entire plot, and I have no issue with spoilers being in the plot section. I'm talking specifically about the lead, which is the only part of the article I edited. Once again, I bring up the Memento article as an example of a lead that provides a general overview of the plot without going out of its way to explain every single detail, including the ending, to the reader. The Memento article's lead is written in such a way where, if you haven't seen the movie before, reading the lead wouldn't tell you how the film ends. But if the policy says its acceptable to write a lead like Thoroughbred's, then I guess I'll leave it like that. I wish you had explained your rationale at the beginning of this discussion (especially what you wrote about "arbitrary standards" and the fact that the community agreed upon this); it would've made things a lot less contentious. Lairfans12 (talk) 13:36, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- "[the] lead is written in such a way where, if you haven't seen the movie before, reading the lead wouldn't tell you how the film ends" That's the problem, yes. There will be an RFC for this topic and I encourage you to give your perspective, even if you don't edit regularly. I value your contributions, even if we disagree. Thanks again for pining me and discussing this--it's encouraging and helpful. Let me know if you need any help on the site. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:24, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Justin (koavf) -- Thank you for the direct response. I haven't read the policies in full because I'm not a frequent editor and I simply don't have the time. I know that the plot section is about the entire plot, and I have no issue with spoilers being in the plot section. I'm talking specifically about the lead, which is the only part of the article I edited. Once again, I bring up the Memento article as an example of a lead that provides a general overview of the plot without going out of its way to explain every single detail, including the ending, to the reader. The Memento article's lead is written in such a way where, if you haven't seen the movie before, reading the lead wouldn't tell you how the film ends. But if the policy says its acceptable to write a lead like Thoroughbred's, then I guess I'll leave it like that. I wish you had explained your rationale at the beginning of this discussion (especially what you wrote about "arbitrary standards" and the fact that the community agreed upon this); it would've made things a lot less contentious. Lairfans12 (talk) 13:36, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not an admin and admins can't ban at will, so that's not an issue. Why is it that some users not wanting "spoilers" trumps me wanting a comprehensive overview in the lead? The purpose of a lead is to give an overview of the rest of the article and the plot section is about the entire plot. I would recommend that you read WP:LEAD and WP:SPOILER in full (why haven't you...?) but "spoilers" are not treated differently than any other information here. I edited back when we had spoiler tag warnings and the community realized that it was a bad idea and arbitrary standard: what constitutes a "spoiler"? Is mentioning that MLK got assassinated a "spoiler" of his bio? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:25, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Justin (koavf) -- Um, way to be diplomatic about it. I'm trying to be nice here because it seems like you're an administrator and I don't want to get banned, but the way you just responded to me was unprofessional. You only addressed one of my points. And to be honest, I don't think you addressed it very well. One study does not definitively prove that everyone likes movies being spoiled. Most people I know say they hate it. I personally dislike it. Beyond that, you didn't address one of my main points: I can not think of a single movie article on Wikipedia that spoils a film in the lead section like the Thoroughbreds article does. Sure, there needs to be a general rundown of the narrative in the lead, but that doesn't entail giving away twists or endings (once again, see the Memento (film) article to understand what I'm talking about). You also didn't respond to my statement that the spoiler policy on Wikipedia is against putting a spoiler in the lead (I could be wrong on this point because I haven't read the policy in full, so I'd appreciate it if you would give me a direct response). If you keep treating me like I'm an idiot, I'm gonna take this to another administrator and try to get the dispute sorted out. Because you're just wasting my time giving me the runaround. Lairfans12 (talk) 01:00, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
- "Spoilers" make you enjoy films more. You're just wrong. The lead should give an overview of the entire article, including the entire plot. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:00, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
- @Justin (koavf) -- Because if someone is interested in the movie, but wants to read about the film's production on Wikipedia first, they may have the movie partially ruined for them by seeing a spoiler in the lead section. I thought having a spoiler in the lead went against Wiki guidelines as well. I could be wrong on that, but I don't see spoilers in the lead section of, say, Memento (film). Nor in any other movie article I can think of. I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I honestly don't think that spoiler needs to be in the lead section of the article. There's already enough plot info for people to get the gist of what it's about. Lairfans12 (talk) 16:52, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
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