User talk:Khoikhoi/Archive 5

Controversy...Ancient Egyptians

Thanks for the catch, I must have missed some of it. --Mgreenbe 21:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

But it's good! I forgot to look through the history to see what else had been changed. Cheers! --Mgreenbe 21:28, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Deletion or merging Iranian peoples

Obviously there are no scientific sources references to support content of this article. I neutrally ask you to help delete that article or at least merge its stuff to other related articles. I still think you are neutral. Thanks. Diyako Talk + 23:46, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply about deletion of original research and racistic article of Iranian people. Diyako Talk + 00:10, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi!i have no idea why i am telling u this,or that if me,u or anyone else can do something about it,but i just saw on inanna's tak page that she removed the message i had sent her to work on a solution in Turkish cypriots article.i have figured out what she is trying to do in the articles,but i didn't think that she would even change the talk pages!u can check it in the history section...just leting u know that i asked her to cite sources and solutions and telling u not to ask for unprotection of that article,cause i am sure that it will be reverted as soon as she logs in again.regards--Hectorian 01:55, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

By the way,i saw that u are in a search about the iranian languages and people and about a name of them that would create no disputes.if i can propose something u(although i know u know better than me:)...),i think that the term 'Iranic' would be more neutral.something like german and germanic...it is a term that it is used in international bibliography...i have not made it up by myself:)--Hectorian 02:03, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

thanks with the inanna case.about the term Iranic,it may not be used as much as 'Iranian',but i think it is the only one that will end all disputes...there is no dispute between e.g. norwegians and germans cause the term 'germanic' is used.if the term 'iranian' will continue to be used,there will always be cases of kurds etc who will be offended.--Hectorian 02:19, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

hey!thanks again for the correction in my userboxes:)--Hectorian 02:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Turkish interests

Khoikhoi, just observing your interest in the Turkish/Turkic related subjects I suspect that you have more than just a rudimentary knowledge about the Turks. But if you are interested in furthering your knowledge about the Turks it is imperative to go beyond the current social restrictions and the jingoism and re-examine the history with a critical eye: The "Turk" constitues a very convernient "other" which other identities can use to distinguish and define their own identities. This creates an artificial "see-saw" where one's own identity rests on the demise of the Turkish identity. I do not take the history, folklore and ethnology lightly. In my opinion investigation of any ethnic identity adds pieces to the big picture of human culture. And I strongly disagree that ones own identity should be at the expense of other identities. Rape and exile are part of our shared history, regardless how painful it would be to learn that "our" brethren were wronged in the history, we need to keep an open eye to be able to see the whole picture. I am afraid this little blurb was more normative than informative but this is what I think the best information I can give to you at the moment. Take care AverageTurkishJoe 05:11, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Mongols and Han Chinese have very similar phenotypical traits. There are 1.3 billion chinese and less then 10 million Mongolians. So if we are investigating the possible source of mongolian phenotypes we cannot assume that these traits are exclusive to Mongolians. The difference is Mongolians speak an Altaic language and Chinese mostly speak Mandarin. There are other Altaic languages further east of Mongolia (Evenki, Tungus, Manchu) whose speakers have even less similarity to Turks. Chances are that the Altaic languages spread from west to east and Mongolian phenotypical characteristics spread from east to west from an originally Mandarin speaking people. Of course without sources this is just my POV. Take care. - AverageTurkishJoe 11:53, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your voting!

Thanks!

Hi, thanks for your voting on my RFA. It has finished with the result 88/14/9, and I am promoted. I am really overwhelmed with the amount of support I have got. With some of you we have edited many articles as a team, with some I had bitter arguments in the past, some of you I consider to be living legends of Wikipedia and some nicks I in my ignorance never heard before. I love you all and I am really grateful to you.

If you feel I can help you or Wikipedia as a human, as an editor or with my newly acquired cleaning tools, then just ask and I will be happy to assist. If you will feel that I do not live up to your expectation and renegade on my promises, please contact me. Maybe it was not a malice but just ignorance or a short temper. Thank you very much, once more! abakharev 07:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

new guinea

Hi, thanks about the maps :) I hadnt planned on doing western new guinea maps because there is already Image:Westpapua1.png, but I suppose I could if there was something which needed a map for it -- Astrokey44|talk 23:47, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Western New Guinea

Ahh - I see your point. My apologies. I didn't understand that was the point of "Western New Guinea", and in fact was wondering why there wasn't just an article - dealing with the whole legitimacy/independence question - called "West Papua", since that term is certainly used as well. (Btw, that's not one I want to really touch -- I am trying to stay as neutral as possible regarding that whole issue since either way one is bound to anger one side or another.) Also, since the question of West Irian Jaya Province is still in play - though it looks somewhat likely it will happen - it simply didn't occur to me. I see the value of an article that deals with WIJ province and P province as a coherent entity, but maybe this needs to be mentioned at the beginning of the article. Anyway, sorry, and I agree with your point.

Iranian peoples pic

Since you deleted the Iranian peoples pic (for lack of inclusiveness) would you mind and suggest some good looking Afghan, Tajik, and Kurdish pictures? I'll make a new collage.

btw, it seems Heja is determined to carry out a revert war. So be it.--Zereshk 06:09, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

---

Ah, Tajik. He's in a tight defensive mode right now. I cant convince him right now of anything. He even attacked SouthernComfort. But Safavids were Azeri. But they were also Iranian too. It's not an either/or thing. They had both traits. Look at the portrait of Ismail Safavi. You can still see the "Per" (as in Persis) on the top right side of the picture. They were proud Persianoids. But Tajik is right about Sheikh Safiddin being originally Kurdish up the ladder. Dehkhoda verifies that too. But hey, I'm happy with that too. Another example of the intermingling of one big Iranian family. As far as Im concerned, ethnic lines are so blurred in the region nowadays that these ethnic squabbles on WP are pretty vain to me. My aunt is Kurdish. Im half Azeri, and my paternal grandfater was half Georgian. A typical case.

On a side note, I disagree with you about supporting secessionism, but that's OK. I absolutely however agree that every group and community should have their freedoms. The solution to Iran's problems are political in my opinion. Once a state becomes a self-evolving pluralistic democracy and the economy as a result is opened up, it eventually creates prosperity. With prosperity comes stability: People like Diyako and Heja will be running around enjoying making money in their prosperous Iranian Kurdistan home, instead of spewing out hatred here. Nobody will care about ethnicity in a society that has its desired welfare. Racism (and other forms of extremism) are generally a symptom of lack of prosperity. That's my theory. We can disagree on that. Nobody thinks the same. But that's fine.

Now, Heja and Diyako, I dont know what's wrong with them. I wasnt going to get in this mess. But erasing "Iranian people"? That's just taking it way too far. You should see Heja's posts on other websites. She fumes with hatred against Persians and Sassanids.[1] [2]

One request though: If you can, please let the poetry (like on the Fars page) stay. It took me ages to find those verses. My goal is to eventually have one or two lines adorn every provincial page of Iran. And cities too. It gives flavor and beauty, and many readers actually enjoy it. We can even use Kurdish and Azeri verses as well. I just want to get the artistic heritage of Iran across. I get emails thanking me for these things. (some are from Iran). It wont hurt to have these verses.

Anyway, take it easy.--Zereshk 06:52, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

The pics can be lower down the page. No problem. For example, we can make a section called "Fars province in poetry", and paste all that stuff there. User:wikiacc was actually the one who made that proposal. I only put it on the top because I thought it looked nice that way.

Iran's pres? I disapprove him. He's still living in the 80s. What Iran needs are some forward looking globally minded technocrats. Not zealous embassy-wall-climbing revolutionaries. But things are not looking good.

Im not an admin. But even if I was, according to WP rules I couldnt do anything with admin powers, because admins that are involved in an article dispute must ask other admins to block a user or lock a page or etc. Problem is, we dont have ANY Iranian or Iranian informed admins to help us out in these cases. wikiacc isnt Iranian. And User:Refdoc is no longer active.--Zereshk 00:02, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I would support you. You sound like a reasonable person, even though we may not agree on everything all the time. But hey, who does?--Zereshk 00:13, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

IP's on vandal watch list

Well, granted that I'm not an admin, it's kind of hard for me to do anything directly but I have passed the message on to a user who is an admin who will have a look. Thanks for the heads up though :) Tawker 08:43, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Ah don't worry, I needed some poking to get me to start my "Users who think I'm an admin" counter :) -- Tawker 08:47, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I have a policy of no self nominations, so who knows when it will be. Tawker 08:51, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. The list has been checked by an admin btw. Tawker 08:54, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Heja Helweda, Diyako, Aucaman

These three users are on some sort of anti-Iranian crusade vandalizing all the Iranian and Persian related articles. We need to keep an eye on their " edit activities" as their intentions is not sincere but merely for the purpose of propagating false information.

Khoikhoi and Armenians

Don't you people have anything better to do than editing Turks related Wikipedia articles? Now, I know Armenians are obsessed with everything related to Turks but what's your story Khoikhoi? And why are you cooperating with Armenians? --Kagan the Barbarian 14:59, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Is he not allowed to edit Turkey related articles? I must say, I have a fascination with such subjects as well and have found Khoikhoi a pleasure to work with. I think you should read Wikipedia:Ownership of articles, according to which all articles are for all users, so telling other users to bug off is not going to work. I'm sure that Khoikhoi is applying NPOV, not co-operating or collaborating with anyone. --Latinus 16:39, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Khoikhoi was asking support from chauvinist Armenians for voting in his favor on a Turks related article. Anybody can edit any article here, I am aware of the rules, don't play smart with me, I am also aware there are Wiki users with an agenda. Apperantly Turkish users are busy working on Turkish Wikipedia which explains why most English articles related to Turks and Ottomans are being edited by Armenians, Greeks, Serbs and Khoikhoi. Keep in mind that just like a Turk can't stay neutral while writing about Turks, so can't a Serb, an Armenian or a Greek; your edits are destined to get re-edited sooner or later unless you compromise.--Kagan the Barbarian 18:26, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi, do you think you could keep an eye on Mehmed Pasha Sokolović - there is an long dispute there over whether he was of Serbian or Bosniak descent. As far as I can see, so far (from the sources on the talk page) he was most likely of Serbian descent, but Bosniak users edit war a lot. HolyRomanEmperor asked me to look into this. --Latinus 22:01, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi, could you please check your e-mail. --Latinus 19:24, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Aucaman

Is Aucaman some sort of a moderator? If yes, who is his superior? I'd like to file a complaint againt him. --ManiF 02:50, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

If he's not an Admin ot mod then why is he issuing me warnings? Why is his name/signature in bold? He's systamtically disputing every Iran-rleated article on some ridiculous ground and even when he's presented with facts and sources, he still refuses to remove the dispute tag and he warns me when I do it! Can he do that? Can you just dispute an article on some ridiculous ground and stick to it no matter what? That doesn't sound right! --ManiF 02:56, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Dispute Tags

Can you explain to me how and when they can be removed? If users can't remove the dispute tag once a theory has been proven wrong or the cliam is simply false, then anyone who intends to vandalize an article can just insert a "Dispute Tag" and stick to his/her own ridiculous argument without any proof or source to back it up. --ManiF 03:12, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Aucaman may never be satisfied as his intentions are not good and he seems vindictive toward Iran and Persians for some reason. There is however a clear majority consensus on the issue of origins of Persians, so why do you keep reverting the article to dispute status? --ManiF 20:51, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Tenedos and Imbros

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (places) says:

Generally, article naming should give priority to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature.

The above names for the islands have been in use in English since the Renaissance, and are the only names recognizable to the vast majority of English-speakers. This is my only concern with the matter: I will have to go back to the article to remind myself that the Turkish names are: Gökçeada & Bozcaada.Septentrionalis 04:43, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

You are pretty sick to propose that the Template for the Reunification of Romania and Moldova be deleted. If templates such as the ones that claim that parts of Canada and USA should brake away from those countries and join up toghether in new states are allowed to exist, so should this one. IF you ever try to attempt to repeat this sort of vandalism, I am going to report you ASAP. Constantzeanu 08:27, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I still see the anti-Bush template, the anti-EU template, the two state solution template. Why are those not deleated? Either propose that all of them get deleated or none at all. Why can I keep my pro-NDP template but not the pro RO-MO union template?Constantzeanu 08:30, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

You are telling me that the template with the "Independence of Tibet" or that the "unionist" template has been deleated as well? I am sorry but I still see the unionist template alive and well.Constantzeanu 08:33, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[3]. I am going to go to bed b/c it is late. plz do not vandalize my page until tomorrow so i can be online to see what is going on. Also, how come the orthodox wikipedians template is gone too? That is not a unionist/sepp. template. In my opinion why should some templates get erased over others? Either we erase them all or none at all. Why don't we also erase Israel and Palestine templates? After all, supporting the independence of Palestine is supporting a carving of Israel and vice-versa since some Arab countries do not even recognize Israel.Constantzeanu 08:40, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I still have the two-state solution template so that one works. What about the orthodox template? What about all the other templates that are political? And don't forget the unionist template. Constantzeanu 08:44, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Hey, Khoikhoi, I didn't realize you were my guardian angel ;) I was away for a few days and was alerted by someone regarding my userpage. Thank you very much for removing that idiots' vandalism.--TigranTheGreat 10:20, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks....

....for welcoming me to Wikipedia Khoikoi and for the useful links. I'll try to use my new powers wisely! --Adkins 15:42, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[No Title]

Hi. If you are not familiar with the subject then dont edit. You said one nonsense. You said Mehmed-pasha was Serbian. Even Serb sources dont say that. "Serbian" means born in Serbia, and he was born in Bosnia.--Emir Arven 18:23, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

List of Sovereign states

Please, be more carefull, when making reverts and especially when giving a definition of "vandalism" to other people's actions. You didn't call it vandalism when Jiang and Alletchang changed the compromised version without explanations on the talking page. And now you call "vandalism" absolutely legitimate edits of Irakliy81, which are explained on the talking page. Please, read the discussion page.

Regards Pirveli 20:08, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm tired, I feel like the snitch of Wikipedia. I just reported Irakliy81 for violating the 3RR. We should wait until he's blocked before reverting, someone else (Jiang?) may have already reverted by then. --Latinus 21:23, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Am I blind? I don't see your reply!

Khoikhoi,

I will try to answer your question. Unfortunately, as I see now, you have fallen a victim of exactly the propaganda that I’m trying to eliminate from the “List of Sovereign States”.

Just so you know I will state my ethnic background: I am 1/2 Georgian, 1/4 Abkhazian, and 1/4 many other nationalities. Also I am by no means against ethnic groups governing themselves; however, I am against it when it is being done at the expense of other people. I am even more against it when this “governing” becomes fascist in nature.

Your question: “why do you not want Abkhazia and South Ossetia to be independent?” implies several things that are just not true. You assume that Abkhazia and South Ossetia are separate entities that evil Georgians occupied for no reason. In reality, asking this question is the same as asking Americans why they don’t want California to be independent or asking Italians why they don’t want Sicily to be independent. Both Abkhazia and so called South Ossetia (a term that was non existent until the early 20th century and that was introduced by Bolsheviks) have been integral parts of Georgia for almost 2,000 years. Georgians lived there throughout all that time alongside other ethnic groups. I might be mistaken on this one, but Ossetians migrated to “South Ossetia” around 15th century AD, while Abkhazians migrated to Abkhazia around 17th Century AD. These facts are somewhat disputed, so other people might have other opinion on that. What is undisputed, however, is that Georgians have lived there for centuries. The term “Abkhazian” itself used to refer not to an ethnic group but to any inhabitant of Abkhazia (those who we now call Abkhazians are in reality an ethnic group called Apsua, and that’s how they call themselves, and their name for Abkhazia is Apsny). Only in the last 2 centuries or so a term “Abkhazian” became synonymous with an ethnic group.

Now, fast forwarding to 1990’s. Under Georgian control Abkhazians enjoyed a very high degree of autonomy, a degree unheard of in any other autonomous republic of Soviet Union. Constituting about 17% of population of Abkhazia (Georgians constituted about 45%) ethnic Abkhazians were guaranteed to have 50% + 1 vote in parliament. It was also guaranteed by the constituting that a president of Abkhazia must be ethnic Abkhazian (imagine a constitution of France stating that only ethnic Frenchman can be a president of France). I am not going to go into the reasons for the war but I will say that in my opinion it was not a war of Georgians against Abkhazians but it was a war of Georgia against Russia. This is my personal opinion, and you may disagree with it. The result of the war was that most of the population who was against the integration of Abkhazia into Russia (including many Abkhazians) was expelled from Abkhazia and over 10,000 ethnic Georgians (civilians not military) were killed. The current “government” of Abkhazia is fascist in nature. It is impossible for me, for example, to return to the place where I was born and raised because I am 1/2 Georgian. Very few Georgians who remain in Abkhazia have no rights what so ever, they are not protected by the law, they can not speak Georgian or educate their children in Georgian.

These are just few of the facts. And I hope it provided you with the better understanding of why “evil” Georgians “oppress” poor Abkhazians and don’t want them to be independent. Irakliy81 05:30, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

No problem, thank you for the reply. As far as whether Georgians and Abkhazians got along well, let me give you a couple of examples. It is not a widely known fact that Russian empire exterminated a lot of Caucasian people during 19th century (very similar to what the United States did to Indians). Abkhazians were one of them. In fact Abkhazians are a part of Adig tribes most of which are now gone. Most of Abkhazians were expelled by Russia from what is now Russian coast of Black Sea into Turkey. I think there are 5 times more Abkhazian descendants in Turkey then there are in Abkhazia. Most of those who remain in places of their origin were shielded by Georgians from Russian military. Abkhazians and Georgians got along rather well all the time. About 50% of all marriages in Abkhazia were mixes (even during the time preceding the war), and there was no discontent between common people. Things started to deteriorate starting in 1950’s and went really bad in 1970’s. And yes, you guessed right soviets had a lot to do with that. Irakliy81 06:15, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Ethnic Groups' rights

Hi Khoikhoi. After some thought I decided that I can not leave your question unanswered: "Honestly, why do you not want Abkhazia and South Ossetia to be independent? Shouldn't all ethnic groups have the right to rule themselves?". It is hard for me to see how someone can honestly find this argument valid when applied to territorial disputes. How do you resolve the problem when there are more then one "ethnic group" sharing the same territory? Which group should get "the right to rule themselves"? In case of Abkhazia, i believe, there were twice as many Georgians as Abkhazians living there. Why do you give the Abkhazians the rights to govern themselves and deny the same rights to Georgians. I believe there are many more ethnic Chinese leaving in New York City then Abkhazians in Abkhazia. Are you saying that they should get independence if they choose to do so? Or if ethnic Cubans in Florida decide to split from US and join this territory to Cuba, they should be allowed to do so? I can go on and on. The principle "all ethnic groups have the right to rule themselves" has an intrinsic sound of fairness but it completely incompatible with real life. As mathematicians may say: this principle "is not properly stated". In particular the terms "ethnic group" and "govern themselves" IMO are impossible to define without loosing the sense of fairness, wouldn't you agree? (PaC 18:21, 28 February 2006 (UTC))

Thanks for the reply Khoikhoi.

First of all - "you Georgians"? I do not believe I ever stated anywhere that I am a Georgian, did I?

Second - not all Georgians "believe that the Abkhazians came to Georgia in the 17th century". The topic is more complicated.

Third - and actually important, what does this have to do with the issue? Are you now modifying your statement to "All ethnic groups have the right to rule themselves as long as they lived there more than a 1000 years"? Or what do you propose the time requirement should be before ethnic groups can start exercising their right to govern?

Fourth - I believe it is not disputed by anyone that Ossetians became a substantial part of the population of what is now South Ossetia not earlier than several hundred years ago. Comparable to my Chinese in New-York example. And besides, do you really want to talk about residency time requirement when talking about America?

My point: I do not think you can argue your time requirement in this issue. It has no relevance when talking about human rights.

Fifth - you haven't answered my question about which ethnic group should get "the right to rule themselves" if there are more then one living together?

Honestly, Khoikhoi if you do not want to give a serious answer just let me know that you are busy, or not interested, I'll understand. I do not mean it in an offensive way. (PaC 00:37, 1 March 2006 (UTC))

I am sorry Khoikhoi, but I do not believe you are serious. "Abkhazia is mostly Abkhaz today, so it's more simple" ???!!! I thought we were talking about the rights of ethnic groups. Are you saying that if one ethnic group kicks out another then they get the right to govern themselves? This is how you think, seriously?

And what about Ossetians? I can assure you few of them "believe that they have inhabited an area for thousands of years", this is just simply not true, you can check it out. What about Georgians living in S.O. (or Abkhazia for that matter). They lived there for thousands of years. Why should they be ruled by somebody else.

I also do not understand why are you saying "I never said that ethnic groups have to live in a certain place for a certain amount of years to be able to rule themselves". How else can one interpret "people, that have, or believe that they have inhabited an area for thousands of years shouldn't have to be ruled by another people." In other words if people lived somewhere for hundreds of years can be ruled by other people but if they lived thousands of years the can't? (BTW, what do you think about Mexicans in Texas, they certainly lived there longer than white Americans. I do not even say anything avout Native Americans.)

I am trying to show you that the issue is not as simple as "ethnic groups should rule themselves". In fact it is not a proper principle at all. It is impossible to even define the term "ethnic group" precisely in this context. I challenge you to do it if you disagree. And another thing... I do not believe "ethnic groups" should rule anything in a civilized society. What happened to democracy? I am surprised to here this from an American. (PaC 01:37, 1 March 2006 (UTC))

Look, the Georgians were expelled from Abkhazia 12 years ago. Are you saying that 12 years ago Abkhaz did not have the right to rule themselves, but now that they committed ethnic cleansing the do have this right? I do not see what else could you mean? (PaC 02:14, 1 March 2006 (UTC))

And still, what do you propose to do with Georgians who still live in Abkhazia and S.O. They still fit into your definition of "people, that have, or believe that they have inhabited an area for thousands of years", and therefore "shouldn't have to be ruled by another people." I really want to hear your answer on this one. (PaC 02:19, 1 March 2006 (UTC))

I hope you do not regret that you asked the question by now...

I mean you are not getting annoyed by my pestering (PaC 17:55, 1 March 2006 (UTC))

I did not ask you to list the ethnic groups, I asked you to define what an ethnic group is in the context of territorial disputes. Something that will start with "An ethnic group is a group of people that ...." Can you do that? (PaC 02:26, 1 March 2006 (UTC))

OK, here's your definition:

(Or I guess the definition by a fellow named Smith PaC 19:05, 1 March 2006 (UTC))

• "An ethnic group is a human population whose members identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry."

And here's your statement:

• "Every ethnic group should have the right to rule themselves."

Well guess what? My family fits this definition of ethnic group perfectly (as I am sure your family does too). Does this mean that my family has the right to claim independence and rule ourselves on the territory that me reside on? That is precisely what your statement is suggesting. Or do you want to change your definition now? Or may be your statement? (PaC 08:56, 1 March 2006 (UTC))

See, that's exactly what I meant. You could not come up with the suitable definition, because it does not exist. I challenged you to define "ethnic group" in the context of your statement and you couldn't. And not surprisingly you turn to "well you know what it is" clause. No, I do not know and if you can not define it then you do not know either. Ergo, your statement "Every ethnic group should have the right to rule themselves" is completely meaningless. Case closed. (PaC 02:33, 2 March 2006 (UTC))

Sockpuppets

Hi, do you think you could request a sock check on all those Georgian POV pushers who all seem to have created their accounts today. If my suspicions are confirmed, then mass blocks will be handed out. --Latinus 08:20, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Ah I see you've already done it, good. --Latinus 08:24, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Latinos, you should FIRST check the IPs and only THEN decide, whether to make your accusations or not. What you have done, is a slander. Sorry to say this. Pirveli 12:25, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Greetings, Khoikhoi

I see that even you have been involved in the dispute on the Mehmed Pasha Sokolović article. I have invited neutral mediators like User:Duja and User:Latinus, but the other party (User:Emir_Arven in precise) refused all agreements. I have made clear arguements on the article's talk page, but they are still unacceptable by the other party.

Indeed, he was born in Bosnia, please see Serbian article. It refers to his ethnic origin. This presice is the fact that Emir doesn't want to accept, so he succumbs to three: 1. He is a Bosniak (disputable) 2. he is a Bosnian and 3. non-defyning I know that I seem POV if I say this - but the only reason why this is pushed - is NOT to mention "Serb-"... --HolyRomanEmperor 13:29, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi, could you check your e-mail? --Latinus 16:23, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I suggest that we do that in the near future; but I have invited an excellent neutral wikipedian - User:Live_Forever. He will write a NPOV article, and he is an ethnic Bosniak, so Emir will accept him (I don't think that he would accept non-Bosniak wikipedians' edits). --HolyRomanEmperor 17:16, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Emir_Arven has been blocked for three days because of ... well, naming it would be just insultive to him. Anyway, I hope that he will become reasonable after his 4th block. --HolyRomanEmperor 21:57, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Macedonia

Hey!u reverted my edits as well...i should had checked though that someone had already blanked a whole section...Anyway,i am re editting my minor contributions by copy-paste.i am not sure if this way the changes will be shown in 'diff'...--Hectorian 00:13, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

i understoond that,but my edits were added after andropolus' removal of the section...Anyway,i have already editted the article 3 times and i do not want to violate the 3RR...it seems that my edits are still in the current article.Thanks for helping:)...and sorry if i caused trouble to u,cause the phrase 'wikification was destroyed' scared me a bit...--Hectorian 00:29, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I meant editting not reverting the Macedonia(region) page.but in any case there is a sort of a huge discussion coming in the talking page,that all edits will probably be reverted many times till we end up somewhere...so,since my edits were minor...no prob... Happy for helping u:)...i know from personal experience(turkish cypriots article) that she is not going to discuss anything that has to do with historic facts...so,i am here to help u again if i can,and do not hesitate asking me!--Hectorian 00:54, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I wonder how much you earn by this job...Inanna 00:34, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Your aim is obvisous.I am sure your masonry spends an amount for this.That's your tactic after all...Inanna 00:44, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[[4]]...100,000 can't live that small island.Find more logical lies...Inanna 21:00, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

100,000 people was residing at the island.Search all the sources.You can't find anything which says "100,000" were killed.25-30,000 of them were killed and about 30,000 of them were exiled, didn't killed. Inanna 22:34, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Especially read that --> [[5]] Inanna 21:34, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

I'm awarding you the shiny medal for keeping all those trolls/vandals/etc at bay while combating vandalism in numerous articles. I would have given you the Anti-vandalism Barnstar, but I think this looks way more cool. But if you're against being awarded ex-Soviet medals, I can change the image. Keep it up — your work is appreciated. Saravask 05:33, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for the comments. To answer your question: I don't think I need sysop tools — I almost never involve myself in WP:CV, WP:TFA, WP:AFD, WP:RFA and only infrequently revert vandalism, etc. But it's odd that you asked, since User:Bhadani just suggested on my talk page that I should be nominated based on a comment by User:Nichalp (see this) — but still, I refused. But stick around, and someone may just nominate you — I might offer to do it, but if you stood at RFA now, it'd likely go the way User:Idleguy's is going — majority support, but w/ deeply offended people retrieving unsavory ancient history. Saravask 22:36, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

• That's wonderful! I'm looking forward to giving your RFA my unqualified support. On second thought, that RFA should fare better due to your name recognition and high level of involvement everywhere. Saravask 00:56, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

ACUMAN

Please check Persians' talk, there is no way of convincing him of anything. Many users have presented countless authoritative sources, but he's already made up his mind and he simply wants to push his POV no matter what. The dispute tag is his hostage so he'd get his way. He's just abusing the dispute function to get his way despite the majority objection. I checked your edits and you seem like a reasonable guy, so why are you helping him when he's clearly defying the rules and pushing his POV? --220.92.206.12 08:44, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Dorje

Khoikhoi, I see now I could have requested clarification of your position before writing that, I did replace the information with a minor edit, the addition of Baghdad, fyi. The trivia classification is not apparent to me as the article section on History is self-admittedly terse on any information on the History in the seventh and eight centuries and therefore the added entry is indeed the only non-trivial information for that time period in that section of the article. Therefore the entry enhances the article by improving, Wikipediacally, on the content of the History section. It is also interesting to note how the non-citationed entries regarding "little is known" and the myth of decendence from union with a monkey escape editorial improvement, particularly as this is a section on History. DorjeGonpo

Khoikhoi, I see the point, it is more appropriate to only include a short sentence in the Tibet article and to expand on it in the History of Tibet article, is it neccesary to include a reference link to the other article, or will readers know that is implied since this section in the Tibet article is a summary? Just trying to improve this history section, some things are trying to remain and are not historical and historical things are being removed completely rather than being edited to be a summary. My academic acumen may not be as appropo hear on Wiki as it is in the peer reviewed citation system. The entry has been reduced to a breif summary statement to address your editorial input.

Your comments would be appreciated

Systematic vandalism on Iran-related articles reported: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Aucaman_and_User:Heja_helweda_and_User:Diyako

Your comments would be appreciated

Your question

No, that person is not me or related to me. Regards. --ManiF 01:58, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Mediation Case

The question Would you be willing to mediate yourself and accept an assignment as a mediator? in the mediation case you submitted was ment to ask you if you are willing to be a mediator in another case. Yes or Not now are appropriate answers. You don't have to explain why. --Fasten 10:42, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

You have updated your answer but it still makes no sense because you refer to the case you have submitted. The question is whether you would be willing to mediate in an entirely different case. --Fasten 15:33, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

I wish to thank you, now, for your efforts to help resolve the on-going dispute at the Persian people article. Since I do not have special knowledge or a vested interest in the article, I'm glad someone else stepped in and is trying to mediate. Thanks again, and happy editing. KnowledgeOfSelf 11:26, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

It is tough to say, I only protected the article yesterday, and ideally we'd want it to be unprotected as soon as possible. I'd suggest that if the dispute cannot be resolved soon, that some form of agreement be reached that, would allow the article to be unprotected. The hard part is finding a compromise for everyone. If this doesn't get resolved in the next day or two an WP:RfC might be the next best thing. KnowledgeOfSelf 16:26, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Hello

Hi Khoikhoi.As i saw you're in a fierce conflict with Inanna.I reccomend you not to care her so much.Because she'll view you as an enemy if you edit just a little thing against them.However that's not her fault.I live in Turkey also and i know their system very well.Ultra-Nationalism is started to graft them just at their childhood.Such as; "Your fathers and mothers had sacrificed so much to give you a free life".They start to feel in debt themselves so much for their ancestors.If they behave contradictious, they will feel the pricks of conscience a lot.I am sure now what she thinks about you.She thinks that you want to pull them pieces and can do everything for that.Unfortunatley theri brains are washed as "The Turk has no friends other than Turk" consciousness.Otherwise, there's no other nation who is superior than them for them :)...There is something like "deep state" in Turkey and that's the results of that.And That ultranationalism goes to racism by time very as well.Turks are so professional that to play humans' consciousness.Don't misunderstand me.I don't hate Turkey.Here is my country.I saw a lot of favour from my state and people.But these are the truth and bad side of the Turkey.Anyway i just wanted to explain her POV...Have a nice day --194.27.151.66 14:14, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Make your comments(about me) in my talk page kurdi! Stop silly lies... Inanna 22:34, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Escuela Oficial de Idiomas

Why do you keep deleting my link in Escuela Oficial de Idiomas to Education by coutry/Spain? The Escuela Oficial de Idiomas is common education in the whole of Spain. Please enlighten me. --RiseRover|^talk 16:15, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Persian stuff

Hi. I was asked to look into Persian_people. I've looked at the talk page, and all I could get from that was that there was a lot of argument, and you seemed to be a force for Good & trying your best to mediate, with some success. As an admin, all I get to do is hold the ring where necessary, so if you need any admin back up feel free to call on me William M. Connolley 19:43, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi, This user Khash removes dispute tags from the page Iranian peoples. Its a clear vandalism!Diyako Talk + 02:21, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

There is no dispute about the history, so I do not understand why this user keeps adding the dispute there without any mention of it in the talk page --Kash 02:25, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

It's too late brother, they don't mention anything, just their personal POV.. they call it 'nonsense', apparently. These two users have to be blocked --Kash 02:32, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Brother can you please do this.. I have spent the last 3-4 hours doing this..--Kash 02:37, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

You know we appreciate your help, I am not sure how worse it can get really.. it is a real shame, I am still not an expert on wikipedia, but if you could help, you can count on us for whatever you will need help with in future --Kash 02:49, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

List of massacres

I reverted the article to your first version of 2nd march.the source provided by Inanna claims different numbers than those she editted.and in any case her edits seem to be by far motivated by her own propaganda.not that turks were not killed in Tripoli during the Greek war of independance,but cause the number is uncited and the comments she made about this massacre are trying to present the greeks as barbarians who flooted the rivers with blood!!!Also the thing she calls 'turkish cypriot massacre' never happened...turkish cypriots were indeed killed by greek cypriots during the unrest decade (1964-1974),but 1000 deaths in 10 years surely do not make the definition of massacre,nor shows any form of political motivation.it was a civil violence which had as a result one dead turkish cypriot every 3-4 days.if we will start to include such incidents in this page,maybe we should add all the black americans who were killed in usa during the past 10 years and call it a 'massacre'!(i am just using an example,not cause u are an american:)...)--Hectorian 02:39, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh yes,i know him.although i did not remember his name,i remember the riots and violence in LA and the trial,but not well enough cause i was just 10-12 that time...it was on the news here in greece for several days.of course u have probably seen these things with your own eyes,since u live in California.Racial violence is present everywere.in the US it is more present cause of the many immigrants from every corner of the world.in france,we saw what happened last automn...In greece we also have some minor incidents,but as my country becomes more and more a migrant destination,i am afraid that the incidents will multiply over time:(...About Inanna,it was really sad how she talked to that guy/girl in your talk page...she said the word 'kurdi' in an offensive way,without even knowing that he/she is a kurd!i know some turks and i am happy that they do not share her point of view.and that's why i am not trying to talk to her as if i am refearing to all the turks...But she really has to calm down or something must be done about her,cause i do not want to spend all the time in the wikipedia in reverting her POVish edits!--Hectorian 03:09, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

She is a jew?!!!:0...Jesus!she talks like been the only last real turk in the world!after that i will stop talking about her too:she knows her origins and denys them!!!...what else should i say?nothing more than that the 'special' 'deep state' of my neighbouring country does anything to build a nation...--Hectorian 03:30, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Everyone is not as devilish as you Khokhoi.Don't adapt your POV to me.I could tell what you can do about him but anyway.By the way, when i told you i was jew?! Inanna 08:33, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Could you explain where did you get that please? Inanna 21:59, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Then did you read what i wrote? I was talking about relations between Askenazis and Khazar Turks. Inanna 01:09, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I have never said i was jew.Khazars are Turkic people as me or anyone in Turkey.Nevertheless, that doesn't make me jewish... Inanna 01:28, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Exactly.Am i look like a jew? My family is from Cyprus.If they were jewish, greeks would kicked them before the muslims as they did in Tripolitsa... Inanna 01:38, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, less than 100.Still there are jews in iran, iraq, germany...One of my copartners in one of my shops is jewish and he calls himself Turkish although he is not sabetay as you call yourslef american. Inanna 01:52, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

They came during the WW2 when Cyprus was British colony.You can't find any Greek Jew because they hate even catholics.Sabetay means followers of Sabetay Sevi.They're the Turkish Jews but they're diffrent.They are seen as muslim but jewish origin.They don't call themselves as sabetays.So we can only guess by their life style if they're sabetay or not.So the Turkish Jews are hundred thousands of at real in Turkey.They're more nationalist than even muslim Turks.Such as Halide Edip Adıvar and Nazım Hikmet Ran.Someones say Atatürk was also but it's not seen right. Inanna 02:10, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

In order to talk about the truth,here are 2 links about jews in cyprus [6],[7]. about the sabbatays in turkey,an interesting thing is that Ismail Cem is a sabbatay,and when he was about to be nominated to presidency,the 'deep state' expressed its disagreement(u know...freedom!).lastly,about ataturk,he was a native of thessaloniki,and was born at a time when the 1/3 of the city population was jewish.i do not know weather he was of jewish origins or not(i prefer to believe that he was not!),the fact is that he never said a thing about his origins.cheers dude!--Hectorian 19:04, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Nobody has asked his opinion but anyway...Khoikhoi, i wonder you have a jewish name or you're a victim of american assimilation program? Inanna 21:46, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I'll say something Hectorian at first.Sabetays are "Turkish Jews"(actually, i supposed one can't be a jew who hasn't hibrew blood).There are thousands muslims in Turkey who has jewish ancestors.They're called "Dönme".I have been at the house of Atatürk in Selanik.There were a lot of Kuran books so he wasn't jew.Even if he was, i would know.Sabetays are seen and live like muslims.That's their lifestyle.They have any other traditions and they don't view themselves same with "Real Jews".Ask their freedom the jews in Turkey.Yes, Ismail Cem is a sabetay.Tansu Çiller, Rahşan Ecevit, Kemal Derviş are other sabetay politicians.As i said before, they're seen muslim and they never say that they're sabetays.A sabetay can recognize another or it's difficult to understand...Let's say Atatürk was jewish.What would happen? Would you hate two times more all the jews in the world? Neither Muslim Turks nor Jewish Turks don't like you.For Cyprus; Israel is the 2th country after Turkey which South Cyprus makes Anti-Propaganda about it...

Back to Khoikhoi; Is mr. Soprano German? There are a lots of greeks, armenians, italians...who has WASP names and last names.Lots of people don't speak their own native languages.I think that's awful...

Learn a foreign language is really difficult and needs too much effort.You can't learn all where it isn't spoken also(if you noticed my perfect english :).Because linguistic POVs are so diffrent.For example, there are some form sentences in english.If we translate those into Turkish one by one, there will be ridiculous meanings.I'm sure same about Turkish form sentences.However, our lingustic POVs are so common with greeks(although we don't like eachother and have very diffrent language classes).Because we have lived together hundreds of years together.So that's affected deeply.Besides, i can communicate here in english beacuse there's writing(and i think a couple of minutes before write).But i can't speak at all.When a Turk speaks english, i can understand mostly.But when an american or british speaks, i can't so much.Pronounciation problem.Therefore it's important to learn it where it's spoken...

I didn't see the movie but i can understand an immigrant's life.I have been in US for three weeks.I depressed so much at the 3th and decided to go back immediately(but i didn't do such an stupidty for sure).Cultural shock and the sense of "belong somewhere" affects so much at first.I know many Turks in europe who cries when they see just a Turkish product.After the barriers opened in Cyprus, my grandmother go there and take a few earthen for her home.Not only her, most Turks(immigrants in Turkey) do same thing when they go to kosova, bulgaria, greece...etc.It's diffrent for new generations who borns there.They feel they belong there.For example i am a cypriot but i can never live in cyprus.Because i've grown up in a megapol.One of my friends who is cypriot came to Istanbul.She afraid at first.Because there are only 1-2 automobiles in Motorways at North Cyprus and very small place.Istanbul is very crowded and big for her.That's to say where you born and grown is your home for me... Inanna 00:27, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Because Cyprus is too small for me.I can't do there.I used to live in Istanbul.No problem with traveling there...I have been in New York, Miami, Orlando.I have been in San Francisco also but that was too long ago.I don't remember very well. Inanna 01:12, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah but there are too much things to do in Istanbul than that.However, it depends on what do you expect? I can give you some tips at this point.Turkish Coffee[[8]] is very strong coffee, especially for mornings and after too much alcohol... Inanna 23:00, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

He didn't talk with me.All numbers' resources were given although we don't have to...Inanna 05:39, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Somehow, always the greeks, armenians, chaldeans, assyrians...and you editing on negative way...Inanna 05:52, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

My edits were compeletly right.Nobody shows any web-site here.I am showing though that.You usually work about showing "Terrible Turks".For Armenian Genocide; I have said my opinions before and i'll write about that also.There's no any proof about armenian genocide.I don't say it has never happened but it was not genocide and numbers are so exaggerated.So i don't believe as all right people...Inanna 10:01, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Please post it on Talk:Persian people. While you are there, check my latest additions and see if we can use any of them on the mediation page. By the way, please check Iranian peoples, the Kurdish editors and Aucaman continue the falsification process over there. Just like Persian people, they have re-added an unnecessary dispute tag because they didn't get their way. --ManiF 05:12, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

If you feel like leaving a comment on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Aucaman, then please do so, it would be appreciated.Zmmz 07:39, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Persian people

Yes, I was on a real world vacation and stayed as far away from the Internet as possible. ;) But I'm back. I've just checked out what's been going on lately over at Persian people and it's incredibly absurd. No sources seem to have been provided to back any of these fringe claims that Persians are "mixed" with Arabs or Mongols or any other group. Where are the genetic studies? Do these editors even realize that there is not only one Persian ethnic group, but many who are categorized under that heading? Obviously they have no clue as to the very meaning and definition of "Persian." IMHO, this is the same old anti-Iranian, anti-Persian nonsense that I've been witness to for over a year and a half now since there has been no attempt to provide genetic studies to back up these subjective theories. The version that existed before these anti-Persian editors began their crusade was, at the very least, NPOV since it avoided getting involved in these subjective details. And it's further offensive, these attempts of theirs, since their theories assume that they are true for all Persians. And again, no evidence. What are your suggestions? Take care. SouthernComfort 08:06, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you!

Wiki-Thanks, I wish to thank you personally for your great efforts for the Persian people Mediation. Cheers and please do not give up! --Kash 12:33, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

- You are beautiful, one of a kind :) (you can quote me on this!) --Kash 01:25, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

- Do you have any idea how we can finish the mediation or conclude from it, or anything? where do we go from here? --Kash 02:12, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi

Please check your e-mail. --Latinus 12:46, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Do you think you could give your assistance on Bitola - it's a hard area. --Latinus 17:42, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Pashtunistan

I think you added a request for citation in Pashtunistan requesting the population distribution of Pushtuns in Pakistan and Afghanistan. I have added following section the Pashtunistan page.

The Pashtuns constitute approximately 35% of Afghanistan's population The Afghanistan's 2005 population was 30 million. The 35% of 30 million is approximately 11 million. The Pashtuns constitute over 14% of Pakistan's population. The Pakistan's population in 2005 was 162.5 million. The 14% of 162.5 million is approximately 23 million. That clearly proves that Pakistan's Pashtun population is double of Afghanistan's Pashtun population. If we subtract 4 million Afghan Pushtun refugees settled in Pakistan from the Afghan Pashtun population and add to Pakistan's Pashtun population then the Afghanistan's Pashtun population will be only 7 million while 27 million in Pakistan.

Siddiqui 21:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

You asked to be notified

If I was nominated for adminship, I was today it came a fair bit sooner than expected, the nomination is at Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Tawker - feel free to vote however you wish -- Tawker 00:03, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

They're more than welcome to their vote, I expected some people to say it was too soon, I was actually susprised at the early nomination so whatever will be will be, the future's not ours to see (until it comes at least). -- Tawker 01:24, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Blanking talk page!

Hi, Please tell this user khash that he should not blank the ralk page of a disputed article and instead change the dispute to another matter!!!Diyako Talk + 01:54, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Dear Khoikhoi. Diyako Talk + 01:59, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

How have I changed the dispute? this is crazy.. --Kash 02:03, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for voting

I'd just like to take a moment to thank you, Khoikhoi for voting in my request for adminship regardless if you voted for or against me. Seeing some very valid concerns, I've pulled the RfA until some of the concerns can be addressed. Thanks for your comments, I'll use them to help better myself -- Tawker 02:15, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

No one's watching the Aryans page!!

We have all been spending all of our time on the Persian people page that No one's watching the Aryans page!! On the Persian people page everyone has been trying to stop User:Heja_helweda and User:Aucaman saying it is racist to use the term "Aryan" on the page that everyone forgot about the Aryans page. I was looking at the history of that page and I saw that User:Heja_helweda has made some changes. If you have some time please check out what has changed and try to fix any bad mistakes similar to the Persian Peoples page that they might have made. Thanks --(Aytakin) | Talk 02:20, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Yes, people use the term "Aryan" (Arya in Persian) in Iran quite often. Even here in N. America you'll find plenty of Iranian stores and markets using the word "Arya. Both the terms Arya and Aryan (pronounced Ar-yahn in Persian, not Arian) are common Persian first names, and Aryana being a common surname. This is nothing unusual and as I've tried to make clear before to other users (including Aucaman), it has none of the negative connotations that it has here in the West, which makes Aucaman's position even more surreal. But I don't see where the dispute is since there are plenty of sources regarding this issue, and they have been provided.

I didn't see Mesopotamia's comment, but yes, that is fantastically absurd. As you've seen yourself, this sort of anti-Persian racism is nothing new, and no matter their claims to the contrary, it is pure racism since there are no genetic studies to back up this crap, nor have they provided any remotely scientific sources. On Persian Jews there was an editor making some pretty controversial claims about the origins of Persian Jews (The Jews who migrated to ancient Persia lived in their own communities, though there has been intermarriage. In Parthian times, there were great populations of Persians/Aryans that adopted Judaism as their religion. Today, Persian Jews speak Persian and are virtually identical to other Persians except their religion, due to conversions and intermarriage.) Aucaman immediately reverted, and rightfully so, since there no sources were provided for such a controversial claim.

And yet, look at this sentence regarding Arab and Turkic groups in Iran in Persian people: In time these people were absored into numerous Persian population and adopted Persian culture and language while Persians retained their culture with minimal influence from outside. This is stated as fact, even though the source that has been provided is not scientific - a genetic study would be required to back up the claim that Arabs and Turkic peoples were absorbed into "numerous" Persian populations. It's similar to a claim that the Khuzestani Arab journalist Yusef Azizi Bani Torof made, that Khuzestani Arabs are actually descended from the Elamites. But the Elamites were neither Indo-European nor Semitic, and a genetic study would be required to actually reveal any possible veracity of such a claim. And so, it remains purely a claim, as clearly stated on Arabs of Khuzestan (see also Talk:Arabs of Khuzestan), since when it comes to race and genetics, scientific studies are the only reliable references. Yet none have been provided, and as such any discussion of Persians being "mixed" and so forth in that article is extremely POV.

I would love to clarify the article even further to detail exactly who the Persians are, how they identify themselves, the differences between various groups, etc etc to really spell it out for these anti-Persian bigots that we cannot all be generalized and easily pigeonholed and categorized so conveniently. That's pure Orientalism. And yet there really isn't all that much available, as far as sources are concerned, regarding the ethnology of Persians. And scientific sources are sparse because the issue at hand is so extremely complex that a sampling of several hundred Persians from Tehran, for example, would reveal very different results from a sampling of several other hundred Persians from Isfahan, or from my own ancestral province of Khuzestan. So I feel that the version before Heja and Diyako and Aucaman began their campaign was sufficiently ambiguous and NPOV enough since it only dealt with the line of descent, rather than on modern racial and genetic connections.

This is my primary concern with that article, since I don't think those editors (I don't know about Aucaman's position regarding this issue though - it seems his problem is only with the term "Aryan") would stop their attempts. Honestly there comes a point when one gets sick and tired of this hatred and bigotry and you just want to walk away. Like I said, it's been about a year that I've experienced this sort of prejudice on WP, which I have never in my life experienced in the "real world," so to speak. Anyway, as always I really appreciate your efforts to keep things neutral and I'll try to stay involved, though it's sort of difficult when there are so few of us here. And I had wanted to work on more non-Iranian articles, but these controversies never let up. What the hell. At any rate, take it easy and thanks again. SouthernComfort 02:35, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

My email address was already in my preferences, but it seems that the WP software has changed to require confirmation, so I've done that. I kept wondering why the emails stopped.

You're right, of course, that it would be better for me to stay while all this is still going on. However, I hope that I won't be the only one around to clean things up once things have settled, and I hope these new editors decide to stay and become more involved, so that some of us, who have been around for far too long, can take a break. I'm certainly glad that you're still around and willing to tackle these issues. Were it not for editors such as yourself, I probably would have abandoned WP long ago. And yes, I do have a tendency to write long messages. I'm a writer, after all, so would you expect anything less than that? ;) SouthernComfort 03:20, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

YOUR 3RR VANDALISM

I thought if you revert someone 3 times, that it is a vandalism offense... --69.155.217.116 03:51, 4 March 2006 (UTC) p.s. You are wrong btw, b/c only the Dalai Lama has the authority to nominate a Panchen Lama. Just because a government such as China chooses to name someone a religeous figure, doesn't mean that he is truly a religeous figure. Otherwise, I could nominate you as a Panchen Lama and say that you are a Panchen Lama. Do you see how ridiculous you are???--69.155.217.116 03:51, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your support of my RfA

Thank you for your support of my successful request for adminship. I am honoured that the nomination was supported unanimously and that the community expressed confidence that I would use the tools wisely. If you have any concerns please let me know on my talk page. Regards A Y Arktos 01:57, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Not Voting?

Hey, I see you are paying attention to the List of Sovereign page, yet you haven’t participated in the discussion or voted on any of the preliminary votes. Why is that? --Irakliy81 03:03, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Khuzestani Arab figures

Please see Talk:Arabs of Khuzestan. Zora disputes ethnologue and has added the phrase "disputed" in Arabs of Khuzestan next to the ethnologue figures. She has offered no neutral sources to counter ethnologue. Your help would be appreciated. SouthernComfort 08:26, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Pylambert

What happened to him? I just noticed his userpage was deleted - did he leave WP? SouthernComfort 13:37, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar

Khoikhoi is awarded The Editor's Barnstar for his efforts to improve disputed articles and to remove POV--Hectorian 17:17, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Your welcome!it is the barnstar day for me,since i decided to award those users(3) that i consider the most significant and important at least in the fields that i am interested too.btw,i did not know that u know greek!(especially using greek characters!:)...)--Hectorian 18:23, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

lol..i should have guessed it:)--Hectorian 18:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi

Please support category Kurdistan against some biased users. Thank you very much. Diyako Talk + 17:46, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

This is riduclous, you have done it on all Talk:Israel, Talk:Armenia whats next, Talk:United Nations?!! --Kash 17:53, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

It is not rediculos. Kurds have no friends. But at least these nations are more neutral and friendly than Turks and Persians twards kurds.Diyako Talk + 17:55, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

The only reason that some people may look 'unfriendly' to you, is because you have attacked them personally, called them terrorists, and/or attacked their pages. You disgust me. --Kash 17:57, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

• First 2 months ago Zereshk and me involved a dispute. and you did not know this untill last night. but you were all of the week before knowing that unfriendly. Second I'm not Kurdistan, Kurdistan is a place and has nothing to do with me I'm just a neutral wikipedian.Diyako Talk + 18:15, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

1- It shows that you have been attacking Iranian articles for a long time.

2- It also shows that you are not new to Personal attacks, you have also been doing anti-Iranian attacks to both articles and Iranian wikipedians for a long time. 3- Who said you are Kurdistan? You a Kurd, who is clearly 'Pro-seperatist' and 'nationalist', I asked you to tell me if you are not on your talk page and you never replied, therefore I think the answer is clear. You are definately not neutral. --Kash 18:43, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Greetings

Greetings. Since things are going quitte beyond all limits - may I ask you to be the Third Opinion on Mehmed-pasha Sokollu? Thanks in advance! --HolyRomanEmperor 18:33, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Sukhumi

Greetings Khoikhoi. Why did you endorse the change from Sukhumi to Sukhum? This is as far from NPOV as it gets. Nobody except for Abkhaz calls it so.Sukhumi is not even a Georgian name for it (Georgian version in Sokhumi). Sukhumi is a name generally used by everybody outside of Abkhaz nationalist cirlces. Don't you think you are carrying your pro-Abkhaz POV a bit too far? (PaC 20:53, 5 March 2006 (UTC))

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(places)#Follow_local_conventions that justifies your approach to this situation. The fact that Sukhumi is not in Georgia exists only in your pro-Abkhaz POV. The rest of the world tends to disagree with you. Show me a single government in the world that supports your belief? There are none. And yet you insist on your personal interpretation that is shared only by a Abkhaz ultranationalist. You can't seriosly tell me that you know better than the rest of the world. To express your POV in such a blatant way seems incompatible with your role of "fighter with POVs". (PaC 00:02, 6 March 2006 (UTC))

Oh I see, "Offical government beliefs don't determine everything" but Khoikhoi's POV apparently does. It is not just some governments that insist that Sukhumi is in Georgia. It is ALL the governments in the world! It IS your personal interpretation! You somehow think that ignoring the opinion of ALL the governments in the world substitute an NPOV. I do not think a lot of people will agree with you.

BTW apparantly the name Sukhumi was first moved to Sukhum only last year.

OK, I do not really see the point in continuing this discussion with you. Can I take you up on your offer of help when you welcomed me? Can you tell me how one can move the page name? Will a simple revert suffice? Also, is there a way to file a complaint against administrators pushing their POV? (PaC 00:42, 6 March 2006 (UTC))

Thanks, sorry, I didn't mean you. (I can see though how you could've thought so... but I am not that nervy) (PaC 01:52, 6 March 2006 (UTC))

OK, so you think you have the right to ignore the opinion of all the governements of the world. If you truly believe that's NPOV I can't really see how to argue with that.

BTW, the Russians who actually rule in Sukhumi at the moment, call it Sukhumi. Abkhazs officially call Sukhumi Akua (or smth like that). Sukhum is their nationalists' way of showing contempt for everything Georgian, by dropping "Georgian-style" ending.

Your insistence that the proper way to call the city is by an unofficial name used by a bunch of ultra-nationalists reeks of Abkhaz propaganda(PaC)

You keep pretending that you do not hear this, and I keep telling you. Yes, Sukhumi is in Georgia! Me and all the sovereign states in the world say this! You can cover your ears, but it won't become less true. And you will not be able to justify your answer by anything but your own POV.

Let me ask you something. If the criminals take over the city hall of your home town and start screaming that they are renaming it, you are not gonna rush and change it on Wikipedia are you? (PaC 13:01, 6 March 2006 (UTC))

OK, let me spell it out for you. Sukhumi IS IN Georgia according to international laws. If you go to any court (except current Abkhaz courts) with your arguments you will be laughed at.

One more time: Sukhumi, LEGALLY is in Georgia. This is not my POV. This claim is supported by international laws. Try to conduct any business in Sukhumi circumventing Georgian government. This would be an illegal activity in the eyes of international law. Any court will support this point of view. Your point of view, on the other hand, will only be supported by a bunch of Abkhaz nationalists, who conducted ethnic cleansing.

I suspect you are still not convinced. So I repeat once more: International laws and all of the sovereign states in the world are on my side of the argument. And on your side are... hm,... I only see people who committed ethnic cleansing. And contrary to what you think, ethnically cleansing 250000 people is a criminal act. So my analogy was right on target. The fact that you don't understand this only proves your bias not to say more.

And one last time, just in case. Sukhumi is de-jure in Georgia. Somehow you decided in your mind that de-facto situation (and a very questionable de-facto at that) is more important when deciding which variant of a name to put in the article. Where you got this idea is beyond me. When Abkhazia gains international recognition you can change the name. What you are doing now is pushing Abkhaz POV.

Your argument "read the article, Sukhumi is the capital of Abkhazia" is as "serious" as most of your arguments. Read the article about Batumi, it says it's the capital of Ajaria. What's your point? And Munich is the capital of Bavaria. And Makhachkala is the capital of Dagestan. So what?

I know you didn't mean to be rude, but where I come from it IS rude to ask somebody about his/her ethnicity, race, religion etc to prove a point in an argument. (PaC 03:22, 7 March 2006 (UTC))

I am sorry. I know you say you are serious, but I think you are trying to make fun of me when you are saying that the opinion of the international sociaty is MY POV. I also do not believe that you are serious when you keep insisting that you, Khoikhoi, know better than all the sovereign countries in the world. And I still do not truly believe that you seriously do not understand the concept of the word LEGALLY. Just admit it, you are making fun of old papa Carlo, aren't you?

Oh... and starting your arguments with "your problem is..." is bordering on rude, don't you think? (PaC 04:23, 7 March 2006 (UTC))

I am glad you finally acknowledge an obvious fact: "legal is legal". So you agree that your proposition is illegal and yet still insist on it. I am not saying you should change your views, I am saying you should not push your personal POV in Wikipedia. Every single encyclopedia (where irresponsible editors are not allowed to write articles) lists the name Sukhumi. UN refers to it as Sukhumi (see for example [9] in every single document). Even Russia calls it Sukhumi. (And yes it is Russia who rules in Abkhazia for the moment, despite what you think. If you want to speak de-facto consider this. Every single member of Abkhaz government is a Russian citizen, and many are KGB officers. They are subject to Russian law and Russian rule.)

I hope you see now that it is not MY POV. You, on the other hand keep pushing your own pro-Abkhaz propaganda. Your statement "using the "-i" is only going into the past" is a great example of it. The whole world, every single organization keeps insisting on settlement of the conflict within the territorial integrity of Georgia and you are calling it "going into the past". The whole civilized world insists that the Georgian refugees should return to Abkhazia, and you are saying "no". This is loud and clear propaganda of Abkhaz POV and you can not honestly deny it.

As for your example... two wrongs do not make one right.

(PaC 05:57, 7 March 2006 (UTC))

I do not think I ever called you "irresponsible editor". You are putting words in my mouth.

How can you with clear conscience call my position "strong ultranationalist Georgian POV", when it is the position shared by all international organizations. It is absurd. I can not find a shred of logic in your arguments. And this is not a "personal attack" it is a fact. I just fail to find it. And I doubt anybody can. Again, not a personal attack. Just analyze your train of thought: You acknowledge that the whole world recognizes Sukhumi to be legally IN Georgia, you see that all international organizations call it Sukhumi, you I am sure are aware that all encyclopedia call it Sukhumi as well. And after all that you are saying that this is my "strong ultranationalist Georgian POV". If you can find any logic in this I would really appreciate it. (PaC 06:37, 7 March 2006 (UTC))

You keep ignoring the opinion of international community and talk only about my pov. Forget about me and my opinion. Argue with UN, EU, your own government and international laws. Do not accuse me of denying independence to anybody. Accuse UN, EU, your own government and intrnational laws. It is not my fault that the world does not work the way you want to (PaC 07:03, 7 March 2006 (UTC))

I could not move it tha way you told me to. I did not realize it destroys the history. What about reverting to previous pre-move version? Is this allowed? I am in the middle of changing Sukhum to Sukhumi in Abkhazia article, but I'll wait for now. (PaC 07:03, 7 March 2006 (UTC))

Well, it would have been nice if told me about WP:RM before, don't you think? (PaC 07:22, 7 March 2006 (UTC))

You did not tell me about the proper way to move the page, which is apparently to go through WP:RM. And then you go and accuse me of pushing my POV. Does not look like a nice thing to do, does it? (PaC 07:29, 7 March 2006 (UTC))

I am looking at the last move of this page by Mikkalai and can not figure out how did he do it? Can you figure it out? (PaC 07:36, 7 March 2006 (UTC))

May be you should accuse him of "strong ultranationalist Georgian POV" too. Seems to be your favorite trick. You can copy all your arguments from my talk page. I am OK with it. (PaC 07:42, 7 March 2006 (UTC))

---

Hi, do you think you could do something to Macedonia (region). I'm sorry, I havent got much time online - I have an exam in a few days... --Latinus 23:33, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks - I'll answer your e-mail tomorrow morning (I live in UTC timzone), it's late here. What you've shown me seems good though - I think it'll suffice. I'll send you some more feedback tomorrow. --Latinus 00:08, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

No... Don't use that, you use articles, let me casually mention that in the intro ;-) That could be very useful - Good Work! I just started Greek grammar - I was up all night yesterday fixing it up. --Latinus 00:18, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

BTW I need your intervention on that page now - I'm saving mine until later; he's been warned of the dire three limitation rule, so he can be reported if he crosses it. Guten Nacht - I really have to go now. --Latinus 01:14, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

My MSN id

It's manif@hotmail.com, please add me.

Done Chaldean 05:33, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Try right now Chaldean 05:52, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Still not working, so I'll try some other time. ;) --Khoikhoi 05:56, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Ugg!! Now you got me anxious about what you were going to send me :s Chaldean 06:04, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh man, I had to confirm it through my email. You should be able to do it now. Chaldean 06:22, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

How come you never come on MSN anymore? --ManiF 12:43, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Arabs of Khuzestan

Whether or not they are distinct from other Arabs is pretty subjective, though they do have a distinct dialect and culture indigneous to the region. What's wrong with having an ethnobox there though? Right now the problem is no longer the estimates, but Zora's injection of her own personal opinions into the article again. Oh, the temper tantrums some people throw on WP. ;) SouthernComfort 06:20, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, if you're headed out, then it can certainly wait. ;) I'm probably going to crash soon anyway. The beauty of WP is that we can always come back to fix things when articles go sour. Take it easy, SouthernComfort 06:27, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

When you have a chance, your help over at Arabs of Khuzestan and Talk:Arabs of Khuzestan would be appreciated. Please review Zora's edits and then compare with the current version and see if there are any POV problems. She has presented no sources to back up her claims, and she has not bothered to include any sources to counter what is already in the article. She continues to make personal attacks against me and has threatened to go to ArbCom, which I think is a good idea since I have more than enough evidence against her that I've gathering this past year. Anyway, take care. SouthernComfort 12:29, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Kabyles disagreement

Hey buddy. Howzit? Would you care to have your say at the Kabyle, Kabyle people and Kabylie articles, please? I have a hunch these fall deep within your sphere of knowledge... ;J //Big Adamsky 14:37, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

The disagreement was only minute, but I created an ethnic group stub and now it's already been filled. Check your mail! //Big Adamsky 01:37, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Replied at my talk page. //Big Adamsky 01:44, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

OneWorld.net linkspam

I received this message from User:Billgunyon who wants to promote his site oneworld.net on Wikipedia. He referred to you as having dealt with his links before. I told him I don't believe the links are appropriate and suggested that he seek wider community input on the matter if he still wants to disagree.

It is my belief that if his site were really that good, editors of the associated articles would know about the material on his site and be linking to it, rather than him having to use Wikipedia to make his site well known. Jdavidb (talk • contribs) 15:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Mediation cabal case

Hey Khoikhoi. I'm going to unprotect the Persian people article, it shouldn't be protected any longer, unless a revert war erupts again.. Since you appear to be the mediator of this dispute, it is in your hands to help prevent further revert waring on the article. If it gets out of hand please let me know and I'll reprotect. If it is apparant that I am not on-line at the moment find an admin who is or request protection at WP:RFP. Cheers KnowledgeOfSelf 15:19, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

kerala

OK, I'll do that. Tony 05:51, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Sukhumi

Please use Talk:Sukhumi now. mikka (t)

sino indian war

At that time , even Tibets themselve didn't admit their own state of independence and no other country regconize them. You are just giving me the definition of "de facto" but this word has nothing to with our argument. Whether you are "de facto independent" or not, governments in this world would only make legitimate argreement with a formal sovereign. So saying "British India and Tibet had never marked their mutual border clearly...." is just like saying "China and Khoikhoi had came to an argreement on the ownership of Khoikhoi's Wikipedia talk page...". It is improper to make a sentence like that--202.66.122.225 08:33, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Macedonians and Iranians

Since everyone is so obsessed with genetics, I tracked down the study I had mentioned before. [10] Thought you might find it interesting. SouthernComfort 10:47, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

BTW, about Zora, my problem is that she has been constantly attaching a POV tag to the article when she does not in fact have any sources to counter the references in the article. The way she is going about things, that POV tag would have to remain indefinitely since she simply does not like the information. Her problem is in regards to the section Origins, where the references state that the Arab tribes of Khuzestan migrated to the region over a long period of time. She claims that they might actually be indigenous to the region, but has not provided any sources. In other words, she wants to claim that it's possible that Khuzestani Arabs are not genetically Arabs. But without any sources, of course. It's a vicious circle, you know what I mean, and a very clever tactic. Her behavior is inappropriate to say the least, especially if she insists on keeping the tag up there. Like I told you, how much more of this crap can a person take? SouthernComfort 10:57, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Aucaman has decided to also take his crusade to Arabs of Khuzestan. Check the history and his comments there. I'm afraid that he is only making things worse for himself. SouthernComfort 11:57, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, he calmed down after I edited the intro sentence. Man, what a world. SouthernComfort 12:23, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Sukhumi redux

In the first place, we should have undone the deletion of the article's history, and kudos to Mikka for that. Now we can think what name is preferrable. Although it was me who moved it from Sukhumi to Sukhum back in July, I believe we should vote to determine which name is proper. I went there about a year ago and couldn't help noticing that Sukhumi is perceived by the city's inhabitants as a Georgian name, hence its use is strongly discouraged. Cheers, Ghirla ^-трёп- 17:58, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

3 RV rule

Thanks for letting me know about this. Was not aware of it. Thanks for working it out in the turkish page as well. Chaldean 22:17, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi

I saw that Syrian Kurdistan redirects to Kurds in Syria, and since I asked about the term in the Talk:Turkish Kurdistan and after days no one responded with any sources, beside that there is any organisation (Human watch) which uses this term, I moved it to Kurds in Turkey. What do you think? --Kash 01:26, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

OK, well it's just too much work and I doubt the Kurds would give-in to that. I did suggest it on the talk page before doing it though. --Kash 01:46, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Azerbaijan

I don't know if it's copyvio, but it is an incredibly large amount of information to add all at once, particularly in the wrong part of the article. I've reverted until either we integrate the information ourselves, or the anon returns to do so. There's some good stuff there, but there's also some potential POV as well. A lot of the information is already covered either in the article or over at Turkic peoples.

As for the genetic study, yes it's basically claiming that Greeks are genetically related to sub-Saharan (black) Africans. Honestly, I find that conclusion to be totally absurd though I find this to be typical of the process of genetic analysis - ultimately even science, no matter how precise, comes down to interpretations of those scientist involved. Also, they never clarify which groups they have sampled from exactly, since "Kurd" and "Greek" and "Iranian" can refer to any number of subgroups within those ethnicities. That's why I find those individuals who are obsessed with this sort of thing to be suspicious - I mean, what exactly are they trying to prove and why, you know? Fortunately this doesn't seem to be the tendency of most WP editors to vigorously pursue this kind of material, since the very nature of genetic relationships and so forth are far more complex than any of them would like to believe. SouthernComfort 09:55, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Persian_people

Archived while dispute was on going, please help --Kash 11:24, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Turkish ethnobox

The population part is rather messy, don't you think? SouthernComfort 13:20, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Infobox Australia

Template:Infobox Australia has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you.

Too neutral

You know very well about Aucaman's actions, yet you choose not to comment on those and neither about the deletion of article. This action was not impressive, I expected more. --Kash 00:15, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Godmode light

I noticed you used the godmode script to revert vandalism at Kerala. I've been trying to get that to work on my monobook.js page, but when I save it, the code comes out looking crufty, w/ code appearing as comments and vice versa. Could you give me some pointers (maybe look at my monobook.js page)? Thanks. Saravask 02:34, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

No luck — I looked at your monobook page and noticed that the code/comment boxes are very neatly set; meanwhile, my page looks like a complete disaster (even after copying the exact text from your page), and logging out/etc. doesn't allow the rollbacks. Maybe it's the browser. BTW (seeing your recent edits), I'm wondering if you speak either British English or Canadian English — there's a page I'm helping to copyedit (Chetwynd, British Columbia — currently a FAC). It desperately needs to have the crufty American spellings I've used cleaned out pronto (as was done at Kerala). Any other help would be appreciated. Thanks for your help. Saravask 03:05, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Love it — much quicker than popups too! Saravask 19:54, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Khomeini

Ruhollah Khomeini has been consistently attacked by User:CltFn who is inserting a fabricated source often cited on extreme anti-Khomeinist websites - the alleged source is actually a forgery, not dissimilar to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Please keep this on your watchlist if it isn't already too long! ;) Thanks. SouthernComfort 03:28, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. SouthernComfort 03:35, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. Apparently none of the images he uploaded (one of a mullah - obviously not khomeini - kissing a boy!) meet the criteria for speedy deletion so I'm going to have to wait until later to list them on AfD. Thanks again for helping. SouthernComfort 06:46, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi, do you think you could do your bit over at Macedonians (ethnic group) - BTW have you checked your e-mail? --Latinus 22:01, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Check your e-mail. --Latinus 22:40, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

My RfA

I'm leaving this macrophage, a particularly hungry white blood cell on your talk page, I just finished a rewrite of its article and realized they're not so different from administrators, as they keep their surroundings clean, doing away with anything that's not supposed to be there...
Anyway, with that short lecture on cell biology done with, I'd like to thank you for your vote on my RfA, which passed with (49/2/0), I'll do my best to not let you down, and if you see me heading towards a common newbie mistake, please nudge me in the right direction :)

--Obli (Talk)^? 20:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

JDoorjam's RfA

Thank you! Hey Khoikhoi/Archive 5, thank you for your support in my RfA: it passed with a final tally of 55/1/2. If you want a hand with anything, please gimme a shout. Again, thanks! – JDoorjam Talk 21:56, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

seriously

I remember Stephen Stucker waving a rubber dick in K.F.M. 132.241.245.49 00:52, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

*chuckle*

He's better known for his role in airplane but the KFM comes in second and it had enough impact for us to remember it.

Besides how often do you have an honest excuse to describe someone as "ruber dick waving" in wikiepedia? ;) 132.241.245.49 00:59, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Iranians redirect

I noticed that you reverted Iranians to redirect back to Iranian. The standard as I understand it is when there is a term for an ethnic group, the plural "Xs" redirects to "X people" or is simply an article on the people. This is true, as you can see, for Persians, Germans, Tamils, Pashtuns, Arabs, and many more (those were the ones just off the top of my head). The single form of the word typically goes to a disambiguation page, but the plural goes to the article on the people, as this is what the plural signifies in English. Is there a reason that you think that Iranians is different from these examples above, and should redirect in a different way? Thanks. --Deville (Talk) 03:57, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah yes, I'm aware of this as the pages that I edit are usually about ethinc groups. :) However, in this case, the article is about a group of ethinc groups, and I think that when someone in English thinks "Iranians", the most common meaning is "someone from Iran", not "one of the Iranian peoples. Therefore, I think it's necessary for it to link to a dab page. --Khoikhoi 04:02, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

This is a good point and you've convinced me. It should stand as it is. --Deville (Talk) 04:05, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

My RfA

Hey Khoikhoi/Archive 5, how is it going? Thank you for supporting my Request for adminship! It passed with a final vote of 73/1/1, which means that I have been granted adminship! I look forward to using these tools to enhance and maintain this wonderful site. I will continue regular article/project contributions, but I will also allocate a sizable portion of my wikischedule toward administrative duties :) Thanks again, and if you have any questions/comments/tips, please let me know! — Deckiller 04:47, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Turkish Cypriots

hi i just wanted to know whats wrong with adding the amount of turkish cypriots in the world?

here i found one..http://www.hellenic.org/news/cyprus/tcpr/1999/99-08-09.tcpr.html says hardly a million. i can find more if you want

ok i will search for a universal source but i think it's ok since it approved by both greek and turkish sources.thanx

Hi again

I thought you might be interested in this.As you can see he is unwilling to compromise on Persian people, endorse if you agree with the case. --ManiF 14:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

i have made some proposals in making the Turkish Cypriots article more neutral.maybe u should take a look:-)--Hectorian 21:14, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

sorry,i did not know u were reverting Macedonians (ethnic group) at the same time.--Hectorian 23:03, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

today is the day of/for what?;-)--Hectorian 23:06, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

you've got mail--Hectorian 23:13, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi, please check your e-mail. --Latinus 23:27, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

sorry,i hadn't,but i just did.check yours--Hectorian 00:57, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for that. Didn't know that one Chaldean extremist had more bad history. But what do I do? Put this symbol

and say stop? Chaldean 04:18, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks alot. Yea, there sure are many Chaldean extremist in Detroit area. I actually live in the Macomb district, but don't know what school that is. Chaldean 04:40, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the warning but I am starting to lose it. I can't take this anymore and I am thinking about leaving as well..just like Plumbyet. Let him erase the Assyrian ethnicity in wikipedia all he wants, what matters is reality; and I would like to invite every one of your who have been involved in the Assyrian page to a trip to the Nineveh plains, Southern Turkey, and Urmaiya. But I'm sick and tired of this battle. I am starting to get really busy with school and work anyways, so I wont be able to counter his proparganda. Please, keep an eye on him for me. Chaldean 02:42, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Because the inhabitants of Iwardo call themselves Syriac. They do sympethize with Assyrians as related "brothers", but they refer to themselves as Syriac and think they are Aramaean ethnically. Chaldean 03:18, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

And also, my mother is from Bakhdida but my father is from Koy Sinjak, near Armota

I could have sword I made a Koy page some time ago. Don't know what happend to it. Chaldean 03:20, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

By the way, who said we are not using Syriac anymore? It should be used in the right places, properly. The only reason I oppose it in the title its because its not an ethnicity. This does not mean we have to reject using the term. Chaldean 03:24, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

No that was a village is Persia (Iran, but doesn't exist anymore.) Koi is withi 1 kilo of Armota, in Iraq. Chaldean 03:26, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I see. Well I just think the term Syriac should be used in the right places. Like in the villages of Tur Adbin where there are no Assyrians left, but only people that consider themselves Aramaean and call themselves Syriac. Now he shouldnt be using that in places in Iraq or Iran, where the term Assyrian is mostly used. Chaldean 03:29, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh my God! I can't believe he did that. I am even more angry now! How do you do that to Chicago? It well known that all of the Assyrian community, incuding the Chaldeans there consider themselves as Assyrian only! Just type in Chicago and Assyrian on google and you will see this. This is insane. I can't believe this guy. How can I not hold myself from not calling him names? How can I take this guy seriously? Chaldean 03:35, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Experimenting?

But I wasn't experimenting. Why was my edit reverted? I even explained the reasons for it in the articles talk page. 202.67.105.240 05:52, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

The government referred to in the Tamil Eelam article is the Sri Lankan government, which has control over most of the region claimed by the LTTE as Tamil Eelam. So wouldn't it then be wrong for the List of unrecognized countries article to say that "Control of the area is held exclusively by the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam." Accoriding to the Tamil Eelam article, the LTTE only has complete sovereignity over these regions: Vanni, Kilinochchi and Mullaiththeevu. 202.67.105.240 06:04, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Finland-Swedes & Finland

The same anon. is back again after some weeks of hiatus, inserting his/her POV, and doing a minor edit after that, to cover up. Just so you know. --Janke | Talk 06:54, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

My RfA

Hi Khoikhoi. I wanted to thank you for taking the time to consider my RfA, which passed this morning. If there's ever anything I can help you with, just ask; you know where to find me. Emphatic apologies for the spam. ×Meegs 07:43, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Safavids

Hi, Khoikhoi. Please have a look at Safavids. According to Tajik’s own source, Iranica, Safavids were Turks:

Taken from Encyclopaedia Iranica p. 240, online-version:

Book 1, p. 240, line 6 (left)

Azari [= Middle-Iranian language spoken in Azerbaijan before the Turkic conquest] lost ground [in Azerbaijan] at a faster pace than before, so that even the early Safavids, originally an Iranian-speaking clan (as evidenced by the quatrains of Shaikh Safi-al-Din, their eponymous ancestor, and by his biography), became Turkified and adopted Turkish as their vernacular.

This basically proves that this clan became Turkified by the time it became a ruling dynasty, i.e. became Turks, and adopted Turkic language as their mother tongue. Indeed, no one can claim that his ancestors were only of one ethnicity, and this probably is true for the Safavids dynasty as well, but Iranica proves that they were Turks. I still keep the intro in accordance with Columbia encyclopedia, which states that they were a Turkic-speaking dynasty, but even such moderate version is being reverted by Tajik a few of his supporters, despite the fact being confirmed even by Iranica. In my opinion, this nothing but a POV push by a certain group of people. What’s your opinion of this? Grandmaster 15:58, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Iranian Wikipedians' Notice Board (WatchDog)

Please bookmark this page, for daily updates on the status of the Iran-related articles. Read notices posted by others or add your own notice by updating "Urgent view". --ManiF 16:26, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

RE

You're showing 90,000 greeks were killed chios massacre.You should show me evidence and you know very well that number is lie.I already show the official web-site of chios but you're still reverting and denying chios massacre.So you doesn't sound honest.Sorry, I can never tolerate injustice...Inanna 16:44, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

My RfA

File:Re-exposure of elephant - lahugala park1.jpg

I think I'm the bird on its head.

Thanks for your support in my RfA. It passed, with a final tally of 62/0/1. I'm touched by all the kind comments it attracted, and hope I'll be of some use with the new tools. You know where I am if you need to shout at me. Flowerparty? 15:54, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi, don't revert yey - slow reverts... --Latinus 20:25, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Sources

Khoikhoi,in Turkish Cypriots u cited sources with a link from a page that talks about 'greek propaganda'.can this be considered neutral and reliable?--Hectorian 23:17, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

check your mail--Hectorian 23:38, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Iranian Azerbaijan

Can you please explain to me what is going on? Thanks in advance! El_C 08:31, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Safavids

Could you please take a look at the article. I found your version ("... initially a Turkic-speaking dynasty...") acceptable. But this time, it is the Turkish users who do not accept it. Thanks Tajik 13:56, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Check your e-mail. --Latinus 16:08, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

My RfA

WikiThanks

Thanks for supporting my RFA. I really appreciated the show of support and all the kind words from so many great Wikipedians. I hope I live up to them! -- Vary | Talk 17:35, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

My RFA

Thanks for participating in my RfA. It passed with a final tally of 98/13/10, just two short of making WP:100. If you need my help with anything, don't hesitate to ask.

Naconkantari e|t||c|m 23:12, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Safavids: more information

Hello Khoikhoi. I have a copy of the article "Safavids" from the authoritive "Encyclopaedia of Islam". It consists of more than 50 pages (!) of information regarding the origin, politics, religion, art, literature, etc of the Safavids. It's a PDF-text, so if you want to have a look at it, please sent me a Wiki-mail so I can send you the text.

The article of the "Encyclopaedia of Islam" is almost the same as the one in the "Iranica" - and it is as authoritive as the Iranica. It makes clear that the Safavids were not 100% "Turkic-speaking", as some users in here claim. And it points out the fact the the origin of the Safavids family - pre- and post-Safi al-Din, was in fact Persian and not Turkish.

Tajik 23:37, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Comparing the current version (and the current intro) to the "Encyclopaedia of Islam" (the article is written by a duzen scholars), it is not OK. It has many short-commings and is partly wrong (most of all the persistant Turkish claims that Safavids were Turks, Turkish-speaking, or whatever). Now, we have an excelent source (51 pages of information!) that should be able eliminate all mistakes and wrong accusations. Just send me a Wiki-Mail and I will send you the full text (it is in PDF, so you need Acrobat Reader). Tajik 23:52, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I, too, want this edit-war to come to an end. However, "compromise" should not be the same as "presenting wrong information". We have first-class sources - among them the Encyclopaedia Britannica, the Encyclopaedia of Islam and the Encyclopaedia Iranica - that do not support the Turkish version. So why should we agree to a version that obviously is not correct?! Tajik 00:15, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

We have sources claiming that they were (initially) Turkic-speaking (Columbia, EIr), and we have sources claiming that they were not (EIr, EI, Britannica, and others). So why should we ignore the latter and only focus on the sources that claim that they were Turkic-speaking?! The best solution would be not to mention the "Turkic-speaking" theory in the intro. The most neutral versionwould be simply saying that the Safavids were "an Iranian dynasty" ... all the rest should be elaborated in the article, with referrence to all available sources. Tajik 01:25, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi Khoikhoi. Tajik started the revert war again. The guy just can’t stop and pushes his POV no matter what. His new source proves nothing, it just says that Safavids were of Persian origin, like Iranica does, but Persian origin does not mean that they did not become Turks by the time the clan became a dynasty. If you look at Azeris, most of them were originally Caucasian Albanians, who adopted Turkic language and converted to Islam and became Turkic people. The same with Safavids, Persian (or Kurdish, to be precise) origin does not mean a thing. The important thing is that when Safavids became a dynasty they spoke Turkic language as their native tongue, and this is confirmed even by Iranica, and that’s what the current intro says. Grandmaster 05:51, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

H Τραπεζούντα

I don't really know - not for POV reasons (heavens forbid), I'd support mentioning the Greek name as there are (Pontic) Greek speakers there and always have been (even before the Turks came). Tell me what you think should be done - I'd start a poll (of course) and see what the result is. What we really need is a MoS provision for this kind of thing... --Latinus 23:53, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, let's follow their example then. The problem is, how do we get Metb82 et al to agree to it. Maybe we could say that as Crete has the Turkish name, Trabzon should have the Greek name. --Latinus 00:07, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

check your mail--Hectorian 01:28, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

check again:)--Hectorian 02:41, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Carson Gulley

Hi there. You voted to delete the article on Carson Gulley - understandable, as the way it was written suggested he was only famous for inventing a pie only known at one university. Having done a little research I've discovered he was a little more notable than that, and I've added some extra stuff to the article. It's still borderline, and I'd understand you still voting to delete, but I wanted to give you a heads-up and the opportunity to reconsider. --OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 12:21, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Alternative names

Tell me something, please. What is your opinion on this edit. While it is accurate and Ethnologue does say that "Macedonian Slavic" is an alternative name for this language etc, it has been very controversial and has been subject to an edit war involving many users. Needless to say I was reverted within minutes on the grounds of non-notability. In my opinion, the alternative name should stay, especially considering the fact that the Republic of Macedonia's first president Kiro Gligorov had referred to it that way and that if I were an average reader (most of them don't care about the naming dispute) I would like to know as many native names for the language as possible. On the French Wikipedia, I was accused of having "political motives" in adding it. Tell me, to the best of your judgement, am I unknowingly POVing articles? --Latinus 00:10, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Adana

Done!take your time:)--Hectorian 01:18, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I know,i took care of it!the tone that editor uses looks familiar...'She' also has violated the 3RR...--Hectorian 01:28, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

ok,but i have just 1 more rv...I will see what i can do. hehe,almost true,sometimes we have dinner after 11pm...:p--Hectorian 01:31, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

ok,report him/her,and i am gonna revert it for the last time--Hectorian 01:35, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

ok.bon appetite!;-)--Hectorian 01:39, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

OK - done :-) do you think you could keep an eye certain other pages? --Latinus 08:16, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The article on a certain language your recently gave me feedback on and the corresponding ethnic group article. --Latinus 08:20, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Pretty much - see Ancient Macedonian language. It was either a Greek dialect a closely related "sister language" or a seperate IE language. See the talk page as well... Slavs came to the region in the 6th c AD - there's no way it could have been slavic and there are no sources saying it is. --Latinus 08:25, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, there is some truth in what Inanna says, I mean it's very unlikely that the modern Greeks are the "pure descendants" of the Ancient Greeks. The links that modern Greeks to the Ancient Greeks are the same language and live in the same area. I presume Inanna was referring to the ethnic groups of Greece. Note that there are some other strictly Greek groups not mentioned, such as the Tsakonians and the Arvanites (my grandfather was one of these). The theory that the Ancient Greeks were black is the product of a rather silly genetic research according to which they tested modern Greeks and other Balkan peoples and they found more similarities (I have no idea what) between Greeks and Ethiopians than any other Balkan people with Ethiopians. Some people interpret this as meaning that the Ancient Greeks were black. The fact that Ancient Greek art (pottery etc) depicts them as white and Ancient Greek poetry talks of the "white skin of Greek women" doesn't convince them otherwise... --Latinus 08:38, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

BTW check your e-mail. --Latinus 08:42, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Latinus got there first, I'll help next time. ;-) NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 08:51, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Watching... NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 08:56, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Can you help us there: Macedonians (ethnic group) NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 09:22, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I also read your question to Latinus about Ancient Macedonian language (XMK). If you have time, take a look at my talk with User:Alexander 007 in his talk-page archive. NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 09:27, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

ok.Of course.I ll try..--Makedonas 09:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Arunachal Pradesh

I reverted and warned him again. If he reverts, I'll move to have him blocked. You're right that it is vandalism. Sorry for the inconvenience. Cheers! --Scaife ^(Talk) Don't forget Hanlon's Razor 08:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

3RR doesn't matter when it involved vandalism. Cheers! --Scaife ^(Talk) Don't forget Hanlon's Razor 08:44, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

What have I gotten myself into? --Scaife ^(Talk) Don't forget Hanlon's Razor 08:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I reported it. [11] --Scaife ^(Talk) Don't forget Hanlon's Razor 09:02, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi, check your e-mail. --Latinus 20:07, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Mac Dre revert...

Hi, what's your basis for claiming that Mac Dre was better known as a gansta rapper? He's the godfather of Hyphy and I think most who know his work would use the adjective hyphy in describing his rap style. -- Joebeone (Talk) 21:37, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi..

Hey, look. After seeing some of your efforts ive tried to think that you are not actually against anything and after what you believe. I would really like to know you better and communicate about these things if you would like. Dont get me wrong i am not a person that hates anyone and specially a person that believes facing the terrible things that happened in the past instead of forgetting. See ya (Metb82 03:35, 15 March 2006 (UTC))

Hey,it's ok we can try to be more communicating from now on. I am from Antalya and my ancestry goes back to Crete(thought youd be interested)and currently a student in Istanbul . How about you where are you from? (Metb82 01:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC))

Yes the southern coasts of Turkey are so rich in history and natural beauty,i feel obliged to inform the world a lot more about it. About the ancestry,i dont believe in talking about a pure Turkish or Greek ancestry in Turkey,because after the battle of Malazgirt,only around 300.000 Turks entered Anatolia while there were around 10 million native people(the hittites,romans,byzantines,jews etc) and so i believe the Genetic heritage got mixed in them. I also think we wouldnt look like the other mediterranean peoples if we were pure Turkish since they are from the borders of China. I wonder what you think about these since you seem to know much about this. Thanx (Metb82 02:16, 16 March 2006 (UTC))

Hi

Hi Khoikhoi, i have written many things before without an username.I am reading most of the Inanna's comments.She is quite interesting and yes, she is a jew even if she denies...Kurmanchi 10:16, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Hello

Khoikhoi, I'm not sure that you saw the maps that you asked me to provide you. Maybe you did, I just didn't see any comment on them, so I thought I'd mention them just in case. In addition I'd like to ask you why are you deleting the part where it's mentioned that Greeks changed the names of many other places (besides Lerin to Florina). Are you disputing the fact that this took place? Regards --Realek 12:03, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate your point. But I must add to your coment about the time machine that we actually have one. It is the collective memory of the Macedonians. Surely a Bulgarian national sentiment couldn't be just erased overnight to be replaced by the "newly invented" Macedonian. And all that in a couple of years. Regards --Realek 01:16, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

---

You give greek names illegally although it's not official language at north but you don't give Turkish names in Cyprus page although Turkish is official language there, neutral Khoikhoi.Have you ever tried to be honest at once?...By the way i replied you in the talkpage of Kars...Inanna 22:00, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Persians

Why did you revert my revert of Lukas's version, I explained the reason why the previous version should remain in place and I did not revert your edit. --ManiF 00:38, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Never mind, I seem to have made a mistake reverting your edit instead of Lukas's which was before yours. --ManiF 00:41, 16 March 2006 (UTC)