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Welcome - to my April 2008 – June 2008 talk archive

Archive
Archives
  1. October 2005 – December 2005
  2. January 2006 – March 2006
  3. April 2006 – June 2006
  4. July 2006 – September 2006
  5. October 2006 – December 2006
  6. January 2007 – March 2007
  7. April 2007 – June 2007
  8. July 2007 – September 2007
  9. October 2007 – December 2007
  10. January 2008 – March 2008
  11. April 2008 – June 2008
  12. July 2008 – September 2008
  13. October 2008 – December 2008
  14. January 2009 – March 2009
  15. April 2009 – June 2009
  16. July 2009 – September 2009
  17. October 2009 – December 2009
  18. January 2010 – March 2010
  19. April 2010 – June 2010
  20. July 2010 – September 2010
  21. October 2010 – December 2010
  22. January 2011 – March 2011
  23. April 2011 – June 2011
  24. July 2011 – September 2011
  25. October 2011 – December 2011
  26. January 2012 – March 2012
  27. April 2012 – June 2012
  28. July 2012 – September 2012
  29. October 2012 – December 2012
  30. January 2013 – March 2013
  31. April 2013 – December 2013
  32. January 2014 – December 2014
  33. January 2015 – December 2015
  34. January 2016 – December 2016
  35. January 2017 – December 2017
  36. January 2018 – December 2018
Current Talk
updated 14 April 2009 — (changes • edit)

Withdrawl of candidacy

It is really rather disheartening to hear that the man who has kept the Novels project going for several years wishes to retire from that post. I do have one question for you, though. If the other elected coordinators were to grant you an "emeritus coordinator" position, giving you the same basic recognition if not the same level of required activity, would you be willing to accept that role? There is an extant precedent with Kirill Lokshin recently being given the same title by the Military history project. The two years of experience you have had with the subject make you probably the single most informed person on wikipedia's content related to this subject, and I think it is a very bad idea for any project to lose such "experts". We even have a separate page relating to the subject, Wikipedia:Expert retention. I have no doubt that the members of the novels project would be more than willing to accomodate you should you wish to continue at any level of activity. John Carter (talk) 20:05, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Please explain

[1] - this has caused some angst to the (definitely not dead) subject. What was the source, please? Guy (Help!) 22:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Novels Collaboration of the Month

You supported A Farewell to Arms, which has been selected as the Novels WikiProject's new Collaboration of the Month. Please help improve this article towards featured article standard. Hope to see you around. Cheers. – Liveste (talk • edits) 01:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Archives  |  Tip Line  |  Editors

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter
Issue XXIII - April 2008
Project news
  • Elections are now taking place for coordinators of the project for the next three months. Any editors interested in seeking a coordinator position, or who want a say in who is selected, should indicate as much here.
Member news
  • The project has currently 381 members, 69 joined & 0 leavers since the start of March 2008.
Other news
  • The project's long-time lead coordinator, Kevinalewis, has announced he is not standing as a candidate for another term in that capacity. We would like to take this opportunity to express our gratitude to him for the extraordinary work he has done for this project.
  • To Kill a Mockingbird was promoted to Featured Article status on April 3. This brings our FA count to 13!
  • It has been suggested that WikiProject Sword of Truth be merged into WP:NOVELS, perhaps as a task force.
Task force news
Novel related news
Current debates
  • There is a discussion regarding further task forces for other genres of fiction now taking place here.
From the Members

Welcome to the Twenty Third issue of the Novels WikiProject's newsletter! Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do.

We would encourage all members to get more involved and if you are wondering what with, please ask.

Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk), Initiating Editor

Collaboration of the Month
Newsletter challenge

Last month's challenge (South Wind) was completed by member User:Blathnaid with a nice starting stub.

  • The first person to start the article is mentioned in the next newsletter. This month's article is Kate Christensen's 2008 PEN/Faulkner award winner The Great Man.

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

BetacommandBot (talk) 23:44, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:JohnSteinbeck ThePearl.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:JohnSteinbeck ThePearl.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 12:21, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:JohnSteinbeck ThePearl title.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:JohnSteinbeck ThePearl title.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 12:28, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Help with the Raymond E. Feist

Hey thought id ask you seen you appear to no alot about this part of wikipedia. What do you think of the Bibliography section on Feist's page, do you think it has too much infomation about the books? I would like your opinion on the matter if you dont mind. Salavat (talk) 01:43, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

: )

Nice to see You back. feydey (talk) 21:12, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Murder in the Cassava Patch

Kevin - I've added an Infobox to Murder in the Cassava Patch and quite a comprehensive plot summary. I can probably upload some cover artwork for it, at some point, too. Have a look at it, when you've a minute, to see if you agree that the stub template needs updating now.

--Quywompka (talk) 14:00, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Easily a "B" class. More reviews, critical comment, real worl history etc would be the next stage. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 09:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Script error?

I think you might be using a broken script to add categories and WikiProject banners to articles. I had to change the WikiProject banner and remove the categories from Mounseer Nongtongpaw because your script had labeled it a novel when it is a poem. Just a heads up. Awadewit (talk) 08:02, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:JanetteRallison FameGlory.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:JanetteRallison FameGlory.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. NotifyBot (talk) 13:09, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:AliceHoffman HereOnEarth.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:AliceHoffman HereOnEarth.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 00:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

ISBN

Hi Kevin, I put up Paul Auster's Leviathan (1992 novel) today. Am unsure what happens with ISBNs when you have ISBN10 ... and ISBN13... I put the first in the infobox. What is the difference, please? Btw, re your retirement I hope this means you will be happy with the change. I guess it's also about taking a break from so much to do. A good move if it means you are still around (I hope!). cheers, Julia Rossi (talk) 09:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Julia Rossi (talk) 00:06, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:ABGuthrie TheWayWest.jpg}

Thank you for uploading Image:ABGuthrie TheWayWest.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this image under "fair use" may not meet the criteria required by Wikipedia:Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the image description page and add or clarify the reason why the image qualifies for fair use. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check:

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's escription page for each article the image is used in.
  • That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page.

Please be aware that a fair use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for images used under the fair use policy require both a copyright tag and a fair use rationale.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it might be deleted by adminstrator within a few days in accordance with our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 17:46, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


Fair use rationale for Image:AJQuinnell ManOfFire.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:AJQuinnell ManOfFire.jpg. You've indicated that the image meets Wikipedia's criteria for non-free content, but there is no explanation of why it meets those criteria. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. If you have any questions, please post them at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions.

Thank you for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 18:50, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar of Madness!!

Barnstar of Murder, Madness, and Mayhem
On behalf of Murder, Madness, and Mayhem, this barnstar is to thank you for your hard work and patience in motivating, mentoring, and moulding the work of student editors, and helping them to achieve excellence in research and writing. For all your help, particularly in the project's early stages, with structure and organization. Thank you so much!
On behalf of the entire class of UBC's SPAN312. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 00:59, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:PiersAnthony_ASpellForChameleon.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:PiersAnthony_ASpellForChameleon.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 08:55, 30 April 2008 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Rockfang (talk) 08:55, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Iona Logo.jpg)

⚠
⚠

Thanks for uploading Image:Iona Logo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Aspects (talk) 18:59, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Backlog at Category:Wikipedians seeking to be adopted in Adopt-a-user

Invention in the Arts

Hi, I am hoping that you will take a look at the section on Inventions in the Arts on the Invention page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention and contribute to the information. Thanks! --Sara USA (talk) 21:50, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

New Project

Myself and several other editors have been compiling a list of very active editors who would likely be available to help new editors in the event they have questions or concerns. As the list grew and the table became more detailed, it was determined that the best way to complete the table was to ask each potential candidate to fill in their own information, if they so desire. This list is sorted geographically in order to provide a better estimate as to whether the listed editor is likely to be active.

If you consider yourself a very active Wikipedian who is willing to help newcomers, please either complete your information in the table or add your entry. If you do not want to be on the list, either remove your name or just disregard this message and your entry will be removed within 48 hours. The table can be found at User:Useight/Highly Active, as it has yet to have been moved into the Wikipedia namespace. Thank you for your help. Useight (talk) 06:48, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Image source problem with Image:SpocksBeard TheLight.jpg

Image Copyright problem
Image Copyright problem

Thanks for uploading Image:SpocksBeard TheLight.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Non-free content, use a tag such as {{non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 08:00, 3 May 2008 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Wisdom89 (T / C) 08:00, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Novels Collaboration of the Month

You supported Pride and Prejudice, which has been selected as the Novels WikiProject's new Collaboration of the Month. Please help improve this article towards featured article standard. Cheers. – Liveste (talk • edits) 01:19, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Archives  |  Tip Line  |  Editors

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter
Issue XXIV - May 2008
Project news
Member news
  • The project has currently 380 members, 1 joined & 2 leavers since the start of April 2008.
Other news
Task force news
Novel related news
Current debates
From the Members

Welcome to the Twenty Fourth issue of the Novels WikiProject's newsletter! Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do.

We would encourage all members to get more involved and if you are wondering what with, please ask.

feydey (talk), Temporary Editor

Collaboration of the Month
Newsletter challenge

Last month's challenge (The Great Man) was completed by our member User:MeegsC .

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:50, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXIV - May 2008

Archives  |  Tip Line  |  Editors

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter
Issue XXIV - May 2008
Project news
Member news
  • The project has currently 380 members, 1 joined & 2 leavers since the start of April 2008.
Other news
Task force news
Novel related news
Current debates
From the Members

Welcome to the Twenty Fourth issue of the Novels WikiProject's newsletter! Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do.

We would encourage all members to get more involved and if you are wondering what with, please ask.

feydey (talk), Temporary Editor

Collaboration of the Month
Newsletter challenge

Last month's challenge (The Great Man) was completed by our member User:MeegsC .

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

SteveCrossinBot (talk) 08:31, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for uploading Image:DavidMitchell BlackSwanGreen.jpg. You've indicated that the image is being used under a claim of fair use, but you have not provided an adequate explanation for why it meets Wikipedia's requirements for such images. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for each article the image is used in.
  • That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --20:58, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:CharlesDickens TheOldCuriosityShop.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:CharlesDickens TheOldCuriosityShop.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 08:25, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Have you time for a review?

Kevin, I got your name from the WP Novels 19th Century Task Force participants list. I notice you've not edited much in the past month, but I figure it's worth a shot: I'm working on the article for La Peau de chagrin, an 1831 novel by Honoré de Balzac, with the goal of sending it to FAC. I wonder if you have time to do a peer review? I'd be ever so grateful! Cheers. – Scartol • Tok 17:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Novels Collaboration of the Month

You supported Cities in Flight, which has been selected as the Novels WikiProject's new Collaboration of the Month. Please help improve this article towards featured article standard. Cheers. – Liveste (talk • edits) 01:09, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Robert Holdstock and Ryhope Series Novels

I have noticed some time back that you were interested in seeing the quality of the Robert Holdstock novel pages (specifically Lavondyss) being improved, but just did not have time. I have been working on revising and writing these novel pages within the Wikipedia guidelines over the past six months or so. I thought you might be interested in checking them out. If you have feedback, let me know, or feel free to edit them... Npd2983 (talk) 18:10, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Anthologies minitagging

Hey there Kevin! Wonder if you'd be interested in a little anthologies-Novels-series related project. To wit, since the 1632 series anthologies are using the same formatting (or will once I get back through them again), I was wondering whether doing a mini {{Infobox short story}} customized for the links to 1632 writers (See the workings of {{16writ}}, et. al.) would have any benefits to your mind, and if so, would you care to write one up? Don't see that most fields in that template really have utility in a list article compendium as for example Grantville Gazette III. Do you? Seems great if and only if the article is dedicated to the single short story. 

{{Infobox short story <!--See [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels]]-->
| name              = COMPULSORY
| title_orig        = 
| translator        = 
| author            = COMPULSORY
| country           = 
| language          = 
| series            = 
| genre             = 
| published_in      = 
| publication_type  =
| publisher         = 
| media_type        = 
| pub_date          = (displays empty cell if not filled)
| english_pub_date  = 
| preceded_by       = 
| followed_by       = 
}}

OTOH, I can see some merit in a formulaic template to handle canonical needs like setting, timeline, characters, and so forth. (GG03 is good 'type article' demonstrating the way things are working out... albeit, an unfinished and unpolished draft state. Many of those synopses need more work, particularly in giving them uniformity in the aforementioned parameters, style and so forth, and I include in that justification and adjustment across articles (using the best approach, natch!). [My wiki time is in dribs and drabs, alas! And I don't always start back where I left off, which is perhaps worse!]). In any event, I'd appreciate your input and any suggestions you might have given that example. (As of last month, there were over 1500 stories languishing on the forum 1632 Slushpile, most of which weren't gonna see publication. At 12-15 per issue (ebook) that's more than enough for eight years of the Gazettes! Per editor Goodlett by email, most likely only those submitted during the last six &months would likely make the cuts for the issue construction going forward from any epoch time one cares to choose—excepting any developmental tie-in with main series writing... which might revive a story. A large number of such were recently released as Ring of Fire II, and a third of those is planned for next year with a cut off date of next January) // FrankB 03:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:AlexanderPushkin EugeneOnegin.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:AlexanderPushkin EugeneOnegin.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:07, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Austere academy.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:Austere academy.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:10, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

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