User talk:KeithTyler/Micronations

Deletionist campaign

Hi there. I noticed your rational and considered response to the general deletionist hysteria concerning the New Utopia VfD. In case you weren't aware that particular VfD is simply the latest in a poisonous ongoing campaign being waged against all micronation articles on Wiki (of which there are currently about 20), irrespective of notability, by a small committed group of rabid deletionists.

If the subject interests you, you might also want to note the articles in the Micronations Category, in order to keep an eye on its contents; I’ve been adding a number of well-researched, illustrated, fully referenced articles to this category, and revising existing ones extensively in recent months, but there are moves afoot thanks to a highly suspect ongoing arbitration of process to have me banned completely from writing anything at all about micronations on the basis that as the founder of one, anything I write is somehow self-promotional and/or controversial. --Gene_poole 22:43, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

External link policy

I appreciate your interest and comments concerning the arbitration process involving myself and Samboy. Your comments concerning my deletion of inappropriate external links from the micronation article are however misplaced. The only external links that belong in any article are those that illustrate valid aspects of the article content. In the case of the micronation article I have only removed links to micronations that are (a) not referenced by that article, and the inclusion of which is redundant and does not add anything useful to the article, and (b) for which no third party source of verification exists. If something cannot be independently verified it is obviously not encyclopaedic. In almost all cases you can see that those links were placed there by editors who have made no other edits at all - in other words they are not only unverifiable, they are self-promotional insertions. There are literally tens of thousands of these types of micronations in existence and Wiki cannot and should not be a link repository for them. My removal of those links is nothing more than basic housekeeping. As I have already stated elsewhere at length, Samboy's claims that this represents self-promotion by me is belied by the fact that almost all of the links in the current article where actually researched and inserted by me - the important difference being that they are all links to micronations that can be verified by many external documentary sources. Gene_poole 03:07, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Copyright

Concerning your comments about copyright on samboy's page, I will only say that what you call my "minimalist" interpretation seems to have been applied by the other contributor to the german silver article as well, because if you read his contribution you will see that he has done exactly the same thing as me, ie take a number of sources and reconfigure & conflate the sentences in question to form new sentences. The sentence concerning "technical uses" in particular uses almost the exact same words I did, rearranged. --Centauri 00:37, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The Micronation article

Since you defended George Cruickshank during my arbitration against him last year, I would like to bring to your attention his recent alledged actions. There is strong evidence that the account User:Centauri is a sockpuppet of his. See this page for more evidence.

Recently, User:Centauri has been rather vigilant about linking to Empire of Atlantium from the micronation article: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9]

This, despite the fact that he is the only user who wants this particular content in the Micronation article: [10] [11] [12] [13]

I am requesting that you look at this article and make up your own mind how to handle this content dispute (the fact that Wik may be back just fuels flames to the fire). Samboy 04:05, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your input. Samboy 19:31, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I would appreciate it if you looked at the matter too.

This is text that I am trying to include:

A "summit of micronations" hosted as part of the exhibition was attended by representatives of Sealand, Elgaland-Vargaland, New Utopia, Atlantium, Frestonia and Fusa, and will feature in a 5-part BBC television documentary about micronations produced by Danny Wallace and scheduled to screen in the United Kingdom commencing in July 2005. The exhibition is also being reprised at the Andrew Kreps Gallery in New York City from 24 June - 29 July 2005.

The section in bold (which has this reference to suppoort it, is what Samboy is creating a song-and-dance about, going so far as provoke an edit war on the subject with an editor who I and many others are reasonably certain is a sockpuppet of Gzornenplatz, who has of course been forbidden to edit anything, by Jimbo.

It should be pointed out that the paragraph directly above, causes Samboy no issues at all:

In August 2003 a summit of micronations took place in Helsinki at Finlandia Hall, the site of the Conference for Security and Co-operation in Europe (CSCE). The summit was attended by delegations of the Principality of Sealand, the Kingdoms of Elgaland & Vargaland, NSK-State in Time, Ladonia, Transnational Republic, the State of Sabotage and by scholars from various academic institutions.

Both paragraphs describe events that are of international significance as far as micronations go, and I think it's important to list the participants. The fact that Samboy is so cut up over one of them, while completely ignoring the other one, shows that his judgement on the issue is severely impaired, being affected by personal disagreements he has had with other editors in the past.

I'd also ask you to compare the edit history of myself and Samboy on this article. It shows that Samboy has not added a single word to the article, while I have contributed a significant amount of work to improving both the article's written content and formatting. This shows that Samboy's claims about "advertising" by me are rubbish. --Centauri 04:55, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for injecting some sound reasoning into this discussion. --Centauri 06:34, 16 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I know you don't like dealing with this article, but I have just put up a poll on Talk:Micronation to try and come up with a reasonable consensus. Samboy 07:58, 16 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Micronations

Thanks for the heads-up on micronations. My contribution was just a drive-by. I'll be OK. --SV Resolution(Talk) 00:12, 6 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Assistance with banned troll

If you could take a look at Sealand and Empire of Atlantium and assist dealing with Wik's continued trolling there it would be appreciated. I count a total of 49 reverts on both articles by him - and that's just today. He is now simply creating new sockpuppets to continue edit warring as fast as admins are banning them. The latest sockpuppet to be created is [14] Perhaps protection and an IP ban are called for. --Gene_poole 03:43, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Poll: Micronation Infobox

An info box template has recently been created by myself and O^O for use in Wikipedia articles about micronations and other unrecognised entities, to address longstanding concerns and edit wars that have resulted from the inappropriate use of the standard country infobox in these types of articles.

This new info box has so far been successfully incorporated into the following articles: Sealand, Republic of Rose Island, Independent State of Aramoana, Empire of Atlantium, Avram and Province of Bumbunga, and it is intended to incorporate it into most of the other articles in the [category] in due course.

However, one editor, Samboy has suggested that the micronation infobox should be excluded from Empire of Atlantium on the grounds that the article is "not notable" and because only 22% of micronation articles in Wikipedia currently have the info box (ie because the info box project is not yet complete).

As someone who has contributed to similar discussions in the past, I thought this might interest you. I have instituted a poll on this subject here, and invite you to review it if you are so inclined.

Thanks. --Gene_poole 06:13, 7 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your insightful comment concerning Samboy's shennanigans. Hopefully knowing that everyone can see right through him will have a positive impact on his disruptive behaviour. --Gene_poole 04:40, 8 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox discussion

Hi. Further to your comments recently about the Atlantium infobox I thought you'd be interested to know about these AFDs. Seems there's a push on to delete/degrade Wiki's micronation articles at the moment:

[15] [16], [17], [18] and [19] --Centauri 02:52, 5 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Help with micronation article vandalism

Hi there. Long time no speak. Would you mind seeing if you can fix the recent vandalism of Empire of Atlantium. Some nutter (probably yet another Wik sock, by the look of the edit history) has set up a couple of double redirects to BJAON and Atlantis which I don't really know how to fix. --Gene_poole 05:20, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion discussion

Hi. As someone who's contributed to discussions concerning micronation articles before, I wonder if you wouldn't mind taking a look at this deletion discussion. --Gene_poole 00:50, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]