User talk:Kanimankwesi

Akan people edits removed

Hi, I just wanted to let you know that your edits were removed from the Akan people article.

The Akan people do not descent from Ancient Egypt, nor is there any evidence that they do. While this may be the oral tradition of some chiefs, most Akan chiefs do not hold this belief. And while is does possess some interesting comparisons, the Egyptian origin theory in the article "Akan Language and its Relationship to Ancient Biblical Writings: Sociology of Names and Places in the Ancient Near East" is heavily disputed in academic circles, even in Ghana.

The current theories are that the Akan people possibly migrated from a Sudanic kingdom in the western Sudan region, which was hypothesized in "A Note on the Origins of Ghana" or that they migrated from the West African forest region, which seems to be the consensus in "Toward a New Understanding of Akan Origins" and "Reading Hebrews through Akan ethnicity and social identity".

I understand the importance of oral traditions, especially for Africans and people of African descent, but when there isn't one central oral tradition of origin amongst an ethnic group, it is biased to choose the most interesting one and proclaim it to be fact. For this reason, I ask that you do not WP:EDITWAR by re-adding the unfounded theory about Akan people origins in Ancient Egypt to the Akan people page. The belief is considered WP:FRINGE. There also doesn't seem to be any original, scholarly research (WP:NOP) on the topic. Even oral traditions must be quoted in reputable sources in order to be used on Wikipedia.

I do, however, believe that the western Sudanic origin theory has merit, and there seems to actually be scholarly research that was completed around that hypothesis by scholars both in Ghana and abroad. MiddleOfAfrica (talk) 17:25, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

The section is Oral traditions and stories. So you can't remove it just because you don't believe it's true. The current Asantehene knows this journey Akan ancestors took to Ghana. The Asantehene knows his own ancestors were from Egpyt. Also J.B Danqua was quoted. Every Akan chief knows about this ancestry migration. Are you Akan do you speak Twi? It's not your job to try to disprove oral stories and traditions. We have proof that the oral stories are true. 2600:4040:2F87:2000:A11F:9BA5:29FE:6314 (talk) 11:00, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

This is Wikipedia. It's not your personal diary of beliefs. There has to be reputable, scholarly research on the belief in order for it to added. It doesn't matter what I believe, despite the fact that I've talked to several Akan chiefs. No original Akan oral traditions speak of an Egyptian origin. And as a woman with Akan ancestors and as a scholar of ancient African cultural anthropology, it is not wrong for me to acknowledge that truth and challenge misinformation.

Regardless of what you or I believe, Wikipedia REQUIRES scholarly research in order to cite information. You literally typed your own beliefs and added a citation from a source that said nothing about anything you mentioned. And no, we don't have proof. We only have comparisons from aspects of the culture that are also seen in other African culture around the continent.

If you have other scholarly proof that states an Egyptian origin of the Akan, then post it. However, the source Relationship to Ancient Biblical Writings: Sociology of Names and Places in the Ancient Near East only makes comparisons between the two and doesn't actually prove anything. Do you have other sources?

Please do not attempt to re-add the information until we come to a WP:CONSENSUS. If you continue to WP:EDITWAR, you could be reported and blocked from the Akan people page. MiddleOfAfrica (talk) 02:16, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

You're being dishonest when you say no original Akan oral Traditions speak of an Egyptian Origin. You yourself are biased and don't like your own group oral traditions and stories. The oral story states Akans settled in Nubia which is present day Sudan. That is true. Kanimankwesi (talk) 03:17, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

No, you're being disingenuous and contradicting yourself. This theory about Egypt didn't begin to be spoken among the Akan until the 90s. That's not an original oral tradition. That's a NEW oral tradition, one that's not even believed by MOST Akan people today.

And yes, some of the oral traditions do say the Akan came from smaller Sudanese kingdoms, so why are you trying to claim an Egyptian origin? Make it make sense. Sudan is not Egypt. And we don't know with certainty of a Sudanese origin, but it definitely is credible, which I stated above. You're the one trying to cite some pseudo-origin of the Akan in Egypt, which has no merit. You and I both know that, despite wishful thinking on your part.

The page currently states the Sudanese origin with a citation from a credible source. If you would like to build on that theory, then I think that would be completely fine. All you would need to do is find additional scholarly sources from published articles or research books that state the Sudanese origin of the Akan, and paraphrase from the sources.

But again, Sudan is not Egypt, and Ancient Nubia is not Ancient Egypt. MiddleOfAfrica (talk) 17:29, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

You just can't comprehend the history of Akan ancestors in East Afrika. Osei Tutu Agyeman Prempeh II actually stated that the Akan ancestors came from Israel in 1946. This is Oral tradition. The history is we settled in Nubia and the Nubians has dynasties in Egypt so they were Pharaohs in Egypt. We also have DNA to prove this. Akan history doesn't start in 750ad. We are ancient. Kanimankwesi (talk) 02:22, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Every ethnic group in Africa is ancient. IT'S AFRICA.

Your whole paragraph is still a contradiction. Egypt and Sudan aren't in East Africa. East Africa is Habesha and Bantu land. Also, what you're referring to is the Kingdom of Kush, which wasn't founded until close to 800 B.C. That wasn't until thousands of years later. Nubia was not Egypt, despite that fact that Nubians ruled Egypt during that period. You said with certainty that the origin was Egypt before, and now you're claiming an Israel origin and a East Africa origin. This is what I mean by contradicting yourself. You're proving my point. Egypt is not the only nor the main belief, so it can't solely be cited as the origin.

And no, DNA does not prove that the Akan people are Egyptian nor of Middle-eastern descent. In Haplogroup prediction in the Ghanaian population using haplotype data of 27 Yfiler® Plus loci and TaqMan SNP genotyping, there was ONE Akan man who was found to belong to Haplogroup J1, which is common on the Arabian Peninsula. But no other Akan man was found to carry it, so it's believed that one of that man's male ancestors came from the Middle-East. But that doesn't account for ALL Akan people. Per the study MtDNA diversity of Ghana: a forensic and phylogeographic view, over 98% of Ghanaian people in the study were found to belong to haplogroups L1-L3, with Akan people primarily belonging to haplogroup L1.

The Akan people article doesn't say that Akan history starts in 750 A.D. It says that the Akan descend from smaller Sudanese kingdoms before that period, and that the first date that's actually recorded is 750 A.D. There is no current recorded Akan history that cites a date before then. Actual Akan oral tradition doesn't even cite a date before then. If you believe I am mistaken, please provide a link to a source that says otherwise. MiddleOfAfrica (talk) 15:00, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Listen the ancient Egyptian's haplogroup is E1b1a and E1b1b. That's what I meant by DNA proof. Sudan and Egypt is in east Afrika. They are regions with no borders. I'm not the author of the post you have been distorting. I Edited it back to the original because you removed the original edit out of biasness. You don't need scholars when you are talking about oral traditions and stories. It's only a statement. You have to come to a reasoning. I haven't said anyplace is where the origins of Akans are. I only say the ancient homelands the Akan ancestors lived in which is East Afrika. Kanimankwesi (talk) 23:51, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

The ancient Egyptian's haplogroup is NOT E1b1. Ramesses III's y-chromosome haplogroup was E1b1a1-M2. This simply proves what we already knew, which is that Black people lived in Egypt and were also Ancient Egyptian. However, there were also remains of other Ancient Egyptian people found who carried other non-"Sub-Saharan" haplogroups, which proves that the Ancient Egyptians were a diverse people living under one empire. That was never the disagreement between us though.

The argument was that you claimed the Akan people were Ancient Egyptians. A E1b1 haplogroup (which is found all over Africa) being found in Egypt is NOT evidence of an Akan origin in Egypt. It could literally be from people of one of countless Central, West, Southern, or East African ethnic groups that belong to that same haplogroup. You're using general facts that have no specific link to the Akan people to make general conclusions about the Akan people, and that's disingenuous. It also violates WP:NOR and WP:SYNTH.

"I haven't said anyplace is where the origins of Akans are. I only say the ancient homelands the Akan ancestors lived in which is East Afrika." Yes, you did. You specifically claimed above that "The Asantehene knows his own ancestors were from Egpyt." AND NO, EGYPT IS NOT IN EAST AFRICA. IT'S IN NORTH AFRICA. (Click the wiki-links to see countries in those regions of Africa). I don't know what else to say at this point. I've supplied sources. I've tried to meet you where you are. I've tried to compromise. And you haven't even attempted to research and add to the discussion. I guess this is it then. Peace.

And I hope you didn't add it back because a WP:CONSENSUS hasn't been reached, and it's beyong WP:EDITWARRING at this point. So you'll definitely be reported now, if you haven't already. Smh MiddleOfAfrica (talk) 01:23, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

You're not comprehending the facts. I never said the origin of Akan people is in Egypt. The origin is actually in Mesopotamia according to oral tradition. You don't need scholars if you are talking about oral history you just need credible sources. You are being dishonest. There is proof of DNA of ancient Egyptians and Nubians and oral stories from the ruling clans. You just need to admit you are unable to comprehend Akan migrations. Regarding Oral stories and traditions we don't concern scholars because they boorish, not credible and make false assumptions like you. You claim Egypt is not in East Afrika but everybody knows it's in the most northeastern part in Afrika. You can't be serious. Now due to association with Arabs you say it's not in East Afrika. You are not credible just like boorish scholars. The scholars are incorrect because they are untruthful and ignore the oral stories of Afrikans being invaded by Arabs and Persian groups who were burning Afrikan people alive to cause fear to other Afrikans make them leave their homelands. You need to have some respect Kanimankwesi (talk) 02:17, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Negative. You keep saying, "I never said the origin of Akan people is in Egypt," but you literally typed in the article on the Akan people page that the Akan origins were in Egypt. You LITERALLY typed that. That's what was deleted by us. And now you're saying Mesopotamia (which is present-day Iraq, Iran, Turkey, etc.), and not Egypt!? And before that, you said Ancient Israel and Nubia above that, which aren't Mesopotamian. Let's not do this. Figure out what you actually believe and then find reputable sources that support that. We can table this discussion until then.

Also, you may not need scholarly sources for yourself, but Wikipedia REQUIRES Wikipedia:Reliable, scholarly sources. It has nothing to do with me nor what I believe. It's about truth and merit. It's literally about what you can prove, and if you can't prove it, you need to at least be able to provide reputable sources that show the claim has merit. You have done neither.

As far as the rest of what you said goes, there are Ghanaian historical/anthropological scholars of Akan descent who have written about the oral traditions of the Akan people. All you have to do is research their work and cite them. But the issue that I'm seeing is that you don't want to actually do that work. And there's nothing I can do about that.

It looks as though you and I will not be coming to a WP:CONSENSUS on this matter. However, Skllagyook and I have. Until you can provide reputable proof of your claims, they should not be added to the Akan page. Peace. MiddleOfAfrica (talk) 02:56, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Also our history doesn't start in 750ad so stop removing. We have ancestors who were born before 750ad. This Oral story is from the Aduana clan of the Akans. All the other clans come from this clan. It's not fringe. You're making false assumptions. Kanimankwesi (talk) 23:17, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Your last edit was removed. If you continue to WP:EDITWAR, you could be reported and blocked from the Akan people page. MiddleOfAfrica (talk) 02:17, 12 September 2023 (UTC)