User talk:JonRichfield/Archive 8
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Precious anniversary
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:10, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
- Gerda, what a happy surprise! I feel disgraced that I have not kept in touch. Unfortunately I have been largely highjacked out of WP and rarely look in any more. I very much hope that you are well, happy, and as lively as ever. With much affection: JonRichfield (talk) 07:36, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
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Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment
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Felted and fenestrate in glossary
Hi, JonRichfield! Thank you for updating those entries in the glossary and for the new images. Can you add sources and citations for those two definitions? I know the article is woefully lacking in them, but I'm trying to (slowly) make it happen, and since you recently did those two, I'm hoping you have a citation for each of them. Thank you in advance. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 18:46, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
- Hello Elizabeth,
- Lovely to meet you. We seem to share some tastes; e.g. ours is i.a. a cat-loving household.
- I see that you have been seriously busy on the glossary, and I admire at once your application, your standards, and your technical virtuosity.
- I am however in some difficulty. You see, WP has some ideals that do suit articles of some types (OR and Citation wanted etc) but that are not realistic for glossaries. To see what I mean, you might find it helpful to compare the situation with Wiktionary for clarification. Wiktionary too have standards, but because they are dealing with semantics rather than substance, (if you like, usage rather than precision) they are prone to demand evidence of usage rather than proof of validity. In such connections, a dictionary simply cannot, and arguably must not, legislate against incorrectness; for one thing, the person using the resource may be struggling to find a loosely used term. For example, in "fenestrate" I give the example of (arguable) misuse of the term where "perforate" would be better. Now, in this case I am basing it on good old Henderson's Dictionary of scientific terms, and if you do a bit of fossicking through such works, you will find that internal consistency in almost any glossary is "An ignis fatuus, that bewitches, And leads men into pools and ditches", because science does not stand still and scientists commonly are poorly educated in philology, so they keep coming up with neologism, many of them redundant, but which we cannot in good sense or good conscience exclude. And if you read a few textbooks in any branch of biology, certainly in botany, you will find a lot of notionally standard terminology that is anything but standard, and by the time it is standard, a lot of it is lost, and a lot more no longer means the same thing. "Pheromone" for example simply no longer means what it used to; "trophallaxis" mutated so badly that it dropped out of use, though it seems to be making a wobbly come-back.
- And what do you think of "tomic"?
- Wiktionary get round such problems with their system of quotations, and classifications of terms as "archaic" or "dated", but in WP that sport of thing would be challenged as OR at the least. And we don't seem to have the kind of structure in WP glossaries that would support anything of the kind. And if we did, it would be cumbersome, to put it politely.
- And, speaking as a user who has both used and added to various WP glossaries apart from Botany (I keep promising to do the same for entomology, but I am getting older faster than I like) I can assure you that my gratitude for their value would have been considerably attenuated if they had stuck to WP formal standards.
- So, before getting too deeply into this, could we discuss it more deeply. Possibly we could raise the question in some sort of forum?
- Meanwhile, 'tis the season to be jolly, so I hope you have plenty of reason to celebrate.
- But for the future. please feel welcome to discuss any such items without the slightest rancour; we really are on the same side.
- All the best
- Jon JonRichfield (talk) 19:34, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, and I forgot;
- In case you find this medium cumbersome, feel welcome (but not compelled) to email me at jonrichfield@gmail.com,
- Go well,
- Jon JonRichfield (talk) 19:37, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
- Hi, Jon. Thank you for your detailed and thought out reply. My holiday week did not go as smoothly as planned, and as a fellow animal lover I know you will understand why when I say that one of my kitties died Christmas night. He was only 91/2 but was positive for Feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV), and had been since I took him off the streets 81/2 years ago. The FIV caused him an early death; it will sometimes lie mostly dormant for years then turn into full-blown disease. His hit him shockingly fast this month with a dramatic destruction in white blood cell count likely caused by the FIV destroying his bone marrow (or something similar to that which the vet told me on the phone a week ago). I was stroking him when he died, and of course my heart is broken.
- Needless to say, I was not up to replying to your reply.
- I'm not here to discuss the value of citing sources in glossaries, or to discuss Wiktionary. We are in the Wikipedia world, and citing reliable sources is required in the Wikipedia world. I won't Wikilink to the relevant policies, as you likely know them. If Henderson's is your source for fenestrate, I can make the citation if you are not willing to do so. I found a 1920 copy on Google Books that is free to read. If you will tell me your source for felted, I will do the same. I don't see it in this version of Henderson's. Fenestrate is also in Harris & Harris, but felted is not. The meaning of and definition for felted in the Glossary of botanical terms is straightforward; nonetheless, a citation is required. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 16:00, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
- Hello Elizabeth,
- I feel for you; we have hardly ever been without a cat (and on occasion a couple of dozen) in the last 50 years of marriage, and we are very familiar with their personalities (ten cats: ten individuals!) and the pain of loss. We have not personally encountered FIV ourselves, and never wanted to, but the upshot is horrible. I wish I could offer more effective consolation than the reflection that he would have had the closest comfort of the presence of his mistress as he faded. Not many cats have had better
- Concerning citations, I am rather nonplussed at your request for citations for items such as "felted". Not only does the word occur in the relevant context in Wiktionary, but in felted as well, and the entry in the glossary links to the WP article so that clicking on the blue takes you right there, as do a lot of the glossary headwords. It seems to me that to add citations more explicit than that, to such glossary entries, not only would be redundant, but would entail pointless burdens of maintenance. Even in WP outside glossaries, redundant citations do nobody any favours, least of all the users. The glossary convention of linked headwords in WP is at once efficient, effective, and immediately to hand for the user. If you wish to work your way through the glossary adding redundant citations, the best I can offer at the moment is to wish you good luck.
- Possibly you would like to clarify some point that I have missed?
- Cheers for now, and I hope things go better at home.
- Jon JonRichfield (talk) 18:32, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
- Nah, but I will wish you a..... – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 21:02, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
Happy New Year, JonRichfield!
JonRichfield,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
– Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 21:02, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
- Heartily reciprocated Elizabeth, and may the new year be without some of the pain of 2022! All the best, Jon JonRichfield (talk) 08:04, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.
– Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 21:02, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
Precious anniversary
 | |
| Four years! |
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--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:48, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
Your submission at Articles for creation: Frigoric (June 16)
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Hello, JonRichfield!
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Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment
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Concern regarding Draft:Frigoric
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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 17:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
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Your draft article, Draft:Frigoric
Hello, JonRichfield. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Frigoric".
In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.
Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 18:18, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry Liz, my apologies -- I had totally forgotten about that draft or what I had had to say about it. I'll drop the matter unless it returns to mind, in which unlikely event I can take it up again, preferably more consistently. All the best, JonRichfield (talk) 06:04, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
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Precious anniversary
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| Seven years! |
|---|
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:25, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
---Thank you Gerda, It is so easy to lose touch! I feel quite ashamed. But I wish you the best -- or better! Jon JonRichfield (talk) 07:17, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
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