User talk:Johnpacklambert/Archives/2023/November

1840s and 1850s births categories

At present this is the current article count for the involved categories. 1840s births has 387 articles. 1840 births has 2,310 articles. 1841 births has 2,183 articles. 1842 has 2,343 articles. 1843 has 2,236 articles. 1844 has 2,475 articles. 1845 has 2,234 articles. 1846 has 2,290 articles. 1847 has 2,256 articles. 1848 has 2,409 articles. 1849 has 2,251 articles. 1850s has 737 articles. 1850 has 2,395 articles. 1851 has 2,395 articles. 1852 has 2437 articles, 1853 has 2227 articles, 1854 has 2591 articles, 1855 has 2481 articles, 1856 has 2793 articles, 1857 has 2825 articles, 1858 has 2981 articles and 1859 has 3054 articles. That is 23,374 articles combined under 1840s births in all categories and 26,755 in 1850s births. For perspective the largest birth year category is 1988 births with 18,359 articles. However year of birth missing living people has over 150,000 articles.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:14, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Archaeologists from the Soviet Union has been nominated for merging

Category:Archaeologists from the Soviet Union has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:03, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Immigrants to the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies has been nominated for merging

Category:Immigrants to the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 23:31, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Emigrants from the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies has been nominated for merging

Category:Emigrants from the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 23:35, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Oboists from the Russian Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Oboists from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:00, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Curators from the Russian Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Curators from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:00, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Calligraphers from the Russian Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Calligraphers from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:00, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Circus performers from the Russian Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Circus performers from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:00, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Magicians from the Russian Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Magicians from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:00, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Hunters from the Russian Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Hunters from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:00, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Political scientists from the Russian Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Political scientists from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:01, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Soviet oboists

A tag has been placed on Category:Soviet oboists indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:01, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Trumpeters from the Russian Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Trumpeters from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:01, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Luthiers from the Russian Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Luthiers from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:01, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Pharmacists from the Russian Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Pharmacists from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:01, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Patrons of music from the Russian Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Patrons of music from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:01, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Heraldists from the Russian Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Heraldists from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:01, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Ceramists from the Russian Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Ceramists from the Russian Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:01, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Male actors from British Hong Kong has been nominated for merging

Category:Male actors from British Hong Kong has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 21:18, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:British Hong Kong singers has been nominated for merging

Category:British Hong Kong singers has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 21:20, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Maybe slow down?

Based on the number of nomination notifications on your talk page, a lot of people have an issue with the categories you're creating. Maybe you should take that as a sign to slow down, discuss things, and re-read the relevant policy pages. Cheers, Edward-Woodrow • talk 22:47, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

The vast majority of these categories were created well over 2 months ago. Many were created well over 2 years ago. Most of them were created before even the class of categories they represent were nominated for any action. The outcome of these nominations is also quite widespread. The number of categories I have created in the last 2 months is fairly low. I have also been seeking to ensure they are expandable and supportable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:19, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

The outcomes are pretty consistent, as most of them result in merge or delete. I do encourage you to take EW's recommendation to heart as even your more recent categories fall into the same problems. Mason (talk) 00:31, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

I have in many ways tried to adapt my actions based on recent decisions. I have tried to be much more deliberative in creating categories.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:40, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I've noticed that and I appreciate your efforts :) Mason (talk) 00:44, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Expatriates from Spanish Cuba has been nominated for merging

Category:Expatriates from Spanish Cuba has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 00:14, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Judges from the Russian Empire

As far as I can tell we do not have this category. It surprises me that we do not have it. We have a Jurists from the Russian Empire and a Lawyers from the Russian Empire. I am not sure in this case what the best form is, since judges are government officials.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:39, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Writers from the Spanish Empire has been nominated for deletion

Category:Writers from the Spanish Empire has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 21:15, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Spanish people in colonial Latin America has been nominated for merging

Category:Spanish people in colonial Latin America has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 21:39, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Pharmacists from the Russian Empire has been nominated for renaming

Category:Pharmacists from the Russian Empire has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 20:39, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

The Russian Empire was a multi-ethnic empire where people came from a broad variety of ethnicities. The modern scholarship trend is to not describe such people as Russian unless this description can be verified by reliable sources but to describe them as from the Russian Empire. There is briad opposition to merging categories on people from the Russian Empire to Russian categories. We even have in progress some projects to delete some joint categories. This renaming to a new scope is a bad plan. On the other hand about 21 of the 67 pharmacist by nationality categories have 1 or 2 articles. For at least these upmerging to the phamacist category and a more broad category by nationaluty is probably the best solution.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:17, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

The consensus on wikipedia is that Russian Empire is a child category of Russian. Mason (talk) 23:20, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

That is not true. Multiple editors, especially in the discussion of the Russian and Sovietemigrants categories, have expressed very strong opposition to the view that People from the Russian Empire should in any way be treated the same as Russians. I do not thinkbthese is an actual consensus that Russian and Rusian Empire mean the same thing. Beyond this Wikupedia is supposed to follow the lead of reliable scholarly sources. In that sane discussion it was shown that recently reliable scholarly sources have gone yo being much more clear and started treating the classes of people who are "from the Russian Empire" as a group that is best not to be described as "Russian". Even where the term "Russian" is used as a short form to refer to things or people from the Russian Empire, to treat this as if it should be the same Russian term used to refer to things or people from the country of Russia as it has existed since 1991 is I believe an incorrect conflating of unlike things because they share a common name. We are supposed yo categorize things by a common connection not by a common name.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:26, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

I think you're misunderstanding that Russian vs Soviet discussion because that it covering Russian vs soviet empire. The russian empire is nested within russia. Mason (talk) 00:30, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

I do not think there is any discussion or concensus that supports this set up, and at least the comments of Michael Z seem very opposed to it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:37, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

The fact that the nested category structure currently exists is presumed consensus: WP:EDITCONSENSUS "Wikipedia consensus usually occurs implicitly. An edit has presumed consensus until it is disputed or reverted."

Could you point me to where the soviet union discussion/Michael Z discussion indicates that this is the wikipedia consensus? Mason (talk) 00:41, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

On Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov there is no dispute that he was a Russian composer yet this edit still removes him from the Russian categories. His wife outlived the Russian Empire yet was still removed from the categories and the lead changed to "Russian Empire pianist and composer". Mellk (talk) 19:02, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

• I would highly question if either of the people in the category ever self identified as Russian. One is in a category that identifies him as Estonian. The other is in a category that identifies him as Lithuaninan. Both died while the Russian Empire was still in existence. Russian may or may not be a good term for people from the Russian Empire by nationality. However it is a Russuan that has a different meaning than the Russian that refers to nationals of the country that is currently called Rusdsia. In the Russiqn and Siviet discussion it was pointed out that the Russian Empire is in some key ways more similar to the Soviet Union than the modern country of Russia. Whatever we do calling the two people in this category Russian without modification seems likely to cause debate and disagreement. If we do not think such a small category is supportable, we could easily upsurge them to Acientists from the Russian Empire and Pharmacists. Almost half of thec64 sub-cats of Pha

Acosta by nationality have less than 5 articles so broad upmerging of these categories may be the most advisable move.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:57, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Writers from Spanish Cuba has been nominated for merging

Category:Writers from Spanish Cuba has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 21:23, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Cuba as a Colony of Spain is a distinct historical period. This is large enough to justify and has potential for growth.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:25, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

At a minimum the contents would be merged to People from Spanish Cuba as well. I think periodization of writers who live in a Colony distinct from those who lived under an independent country is reasonable. Especially when the Colony existed for almost 400 years.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:27, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

It isn't reasonable when we have the categories for Cuban writers for those specific centuries already. Mason (talk) 20:22, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Your preference for the arbitrary breaks of a grouping of calendar years over clear changes to the structure of how a place is governed in categorizing things needs to be better explained.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:43, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

My preference is for following the organizational structure that currently exists and to respect consensus. Mason (talk) 20:54, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

I really encourage you to look over the guidelines for WP:BEFORECAT. Because I think you are missing the point that I'm not deleting the distinct historical period. I'm saying that that period doesn't meaningfully intersect with cuban writers. Mason (talk) 20:57, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

The activities and sphere of operation for writers are very different if they are in an empire, and can easily connect to other parts of the empire, as opposed to being in a free country. Anyway, since you are not proposing to urmerge these people to the Category People from Spanish Cuba, yea you are proposing to delete them from that categorization.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:01, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Writers from the Colony of South Australia has been nominated for splitting

Category:Writers from the Colony of South Australia has been nominated for splitting. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 23:42, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

I really do think being in the Colony of South Australia is defining for these writers. At a very minimum this should be a triple upmerge and also include Colony of South Australia people as a target.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:50, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

I know that you think the intersection between colonial status and Australian writer is defining, but this argument has been made repeatedly for a ton of other categories. It really isn't defining, and that's been the consensus repeatedly. Mason (talk) 20:21, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

For these people being residents of the Colony of South Australia is clearly defining. You have not offered any reason to delete them from this category structure.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:46, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Colonial status intersecting with australian writer is not defining. I'm not going to relitigate this by restating all the reasons that this isn't defining. I strongly encourage you to try to understand the arguments that have been successful and respect consensus for categories. Mason (talk) 20:53, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Immigrants to Spanish Puerto Rico has been nominated for merging

Category:Immigrants to Spanish Puerto Rico has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 00:38, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Currently Immigrants to Puerto Rico is a subcategory of Immigrants to the United States. Those who immigrated when Puerto Rico was controlled by Spain were not Immigrants to the United States and it would be incorrect to categorize them as such.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:47, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I understand that, however, puerto rico is the defining characteristic for immigrants, not "spanish puerto rico". If someone is strongly linked tospanish colonization they can be added to that category as well. Mason (talk) 20:19, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

your proposal would make them sub-categorized under Immigrants to the United States which is incorrect.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:40, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths from cancer in the Ottoman Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Deaths from cancer in the Ottoman Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 14:48, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Alcohol-related deaths in the Ottoman Empire has been nominated for splitting

Category:Alcohol-related deaths in the Ottoman Empire has been nominated for splitting. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 14:49, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Alcohol-related deaths in the British Empire has been nominated for splitting

Category:Alcohol-related deaths in the British Empire has been nominated for splitting. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 14:50, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths in the British Empire has been nominated for deletion

Category:Deaths in the British Empire has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 14:51, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths by firearm in the British Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Deaths by firearm in the British Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 14:55, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Infectious disease deaths in the British Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Infectious disease deaths in the British Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 14:56, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Tuberculosis deaths in the British Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Tuberculosis deaths in the British Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 14:57, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths from pneumonia in the British Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Deaths from pneumonia in the British Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 14:57, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Suicides in the British Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Suicides in the British Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 14:59, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:People executed in the British Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:People executed in the British Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 15:00, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths in the Colony of New Zealand has been nominated for merging

Category:Deaths in the Colony of New Zealand has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 15:03, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Infectious disease deaths in the Colony of New Zealand has been nominated for merging

Category:Infectious disease deaths in the Colony of New Zealand has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 15:03, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:British people in British Barbados has been nominated for merging

Category:British people in British Barbados has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 15:06, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:British expatriates in British Jamaica has been nominated for merging

Category:British expatriates in British Jamaica has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 15:08, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Italian expatriates in British Ceylon has been nominated for merging

Category:Italian expatriates in British Ceylon has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 15:35, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths in Anhalt-Dessau has been nominated for merging

Category:Deaths in Anhalt-Dessau has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 15:38, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths in French Sudan has been nominated for merging

Category:Deaths in French Sudan has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 15:56, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Suicides in the German Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Suicides in the German Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 16:00, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Infectious disease deaths in the German Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Infectious disease deaths in the German Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 16:01, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Tuberculosis deaths in the German Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Tuberculosis deaths in the German Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 16:01, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths in the German Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Deaths in the German Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 16:02, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths in the Federation of Malaya has been nominated for deletion

Category:Deaths in the Federation of Malaya has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 16:09, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths in the Colony of Victoria has been nominated for merging

Category:Deaths in the Colony of Victoria has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 16:17, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Sportspeople from the Colony of New Zealand has been nominated for renaming

Category:Sportspeople from the Colony of New Zealand has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 16:22, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Emigrants from the Niger Coast Protectorate to Sierra Leone has been nominated for merging

Category:Emigrants from the Niger Coast Protectorate to Sierra Leone has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 18:36, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Nigeria is a creation of the British colonial administration. It did not exist before the British created it. We should not class someone as Nigerian who is moving before Nigeria itself is created. This would be an anachronistic imposing of the present on the past.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:40, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

So, I understand that you believe that this distinction is defining, but for emigrants it really isn't, and just serves to make navigation harder. Mason (talk) 20:17, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths in the British West Indies has been nominated for deletion

Category:Deaths in the British West Indies has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:25, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Dock workers from the Ottoman Empire has been nominated for deletion

Category:Dock workers from the Ottoman Empire has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 20:29, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 6

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Clara Blinn, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Native Americans.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:13, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Archiving your talk page

Hello Johnpacklambert! Would you please consider archiving your talk page more frequently? I see you currently archive threads after 90 days. However, your talk page has but this talk page has over 400 threads, which can make it hard for people with slower internet connections to load the page. Best, HouseBlaster^talk 23:53, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

• • I just cut it back to 59.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:04, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
    • Thank you so much! Would you be willing to set User:ClueBot III to archive every week? This would keep about the same amount of threads on your talk page as there are currently. Best, HouseBlaster^talk 18:36, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
      • I tried to see how to do this, and saw nothing indicating how to change the settings for this. If you know how to do that feel free to do so, but I do not and I did not see anything that seemed to tell me how to change things. Even when I was on a computer. On my cell phone it was even less clear. I do more editing on a cell phone than I would like.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:58, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
        • I have gone ahead and done it! For future reference, you can see this diff: the "age" parameter in the archive template measures the archive age in hours, so I set it to 168 (7 days * 24 hours = 168). Best, HouseBlaster^talk 23:51, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Tatar people of the Soviet Union has been nominated for renaming

Category:Tatar people of the Soviet Union has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:07, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Suicides in the Kingdom of Bavaria has been nominated for merging

Category:Suicides in the Kingdom of Bavaria has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 13:17, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths in the Kingdom of Bavaria has been nominated for merging

Category:Deaths in the Kingdom of Bavaria has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 13:18, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Suicides in the Kingdom of Prussia has been nominated for merging

Category:Suicides in the Kingdom of Prussia has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 13:20, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths in the Kingdom of Prussia has been nominated for merging

Category:Deaths in the Kingdom of Prussia has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 13:20, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths from cancer in the Russian Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Deaths from cancer in the Russian Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 13:23, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Tuberculosis deaths in the Russian Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Tuberculosis deaths in the Russian Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 13:24, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

• • This category has 45 articles. The Russian Empire was not Russia, it was a much more expansive category. We already agreed when we renamed the various establishments by year in the Russian Empire categories to use Russian Empire, that we need to be clear that we are speaking of the Russian Empire. To say someone who died in 1895 in Kiev, Warsaw, Helsinki, or Baku died in "Russia" is going to be very controversial, but to say they died in the Russian Empire is a proveable fact.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:55, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

    Please refresh yourself on what it means to be defining. I don't think that the Russian empire is defining for deaths. It doesn't matter if something is a "fact", categories are about defining features.

    "To say someone who died in 1895 in Kiev, Warsaw, Helsinki, or Baku died in "Russia" is going to be very controversial"

    I agree with you. They should be purged from Deaths in Russia, and instead be categorized into Deaths in Ukraine, Poland, Finland, and Azerbaijan, respectively. Mason (talk) 23:42, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

    There was no Ukraine in 1885. We should not retriactively impose modern boundaries on past events. We should use the boundaries and countries that existed at the time. What next, will you class deaths in 1905 in Haifa as in Israel. Deaths are subdivided by country, and the country should be one recognized at the time. There was no recognized Ukraine in 1885. The idea of trying to impose modern boundaries at a time when there were recognized country boundaries but to ignore them and to treat current boundaries as the ones that define things is very bad. The Russian Empire had recognized boundaries in which we events occurred. To treat it as a non-identoty and to try to define these boundaries by borders that exist today is a very bad plan. Thos would be imposing the present on the past. It is just plain a bad idea.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:59, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

    Again -- please look at how defining works. I feel like you are missing the core of my argument. Your current argument does not address my issue. If you want to make a compelling argument, you need to address my concern about DEFINING. Your current argument does not address it. Instead you point out that something doesn't exist or that something is a fact. Neither of those address the issue of DEFINING. Mason (talk) 01:01, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

    Are you saying that someone who died in Kiev in 1885 should be categorized as having died in Ukraine?John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:03, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

    If it's defining for that person that they died in Kiev, then probably. I don't know what the norms are for deaths by city. However, I think that you are not engaging with the issue of DEFINING as the Ukraine category is not just a nation, but also a geographic entity. Mason (talk) 01:10, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

    There was no geographic entity known as Ukraine in 1885. There is no way to define that. That would require retroactively imposing modern boundaries on the events that occurred in that time. We have agreed to subdivide some deaths by cause categories according to country of death. My understanding is that these are by the country of death at the time. So if someone committed suicide in 1829 in San Diego they would go in suicides in Mexico.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:31, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

    OK, so it sounds like you don't understanding what DEFINING means for categories. It doesn't really matter about the country at that specific time.

    "The defining characteristics of an article's topic are central to categorizing the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently refer to in describing the topic, such as the nationality of a person or the geographic location of a place. For example, Italian and artist are defining characteristics of Caravaggio, and so of the article on him, because virtually all reliable sources on the topic mention them."

    See how Caravaggio is defined as being Italian, yet italy didn't exist, as a formal nation. And if you look at the page, it says that he was born and died in the Spanish empire? Mason (talk) 01:41, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

    Deaths are not defined by nationality. Deaths are subdivided by country they occurred in. Thus we have categories like Tuberculosis deaths in France, road accident deaths in Spain, etc. It does not matter what nationality a person was. It matters what country they were in when they died. Is this even a good schema? I am not all that sure. However since we have subdivided the categories by country we need to apply the categories according to country.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:57, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

    Ok... so AGAIN... please LOOK AT WHAT DEFINING means. It is not just about nationality or country. It is a FUNDAMENTAL aspect of all categories. If the death of a person is a DEFINING characteristic of the person, then you apply the category. For most people, the country of their death is not DEFINING. Mason (talk) 02:04, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

    I do not think that is the trst we actually run. If we did we would end up having much smaller categories. I can gaurantee that most people in the various cause of death trees we would be hard pressed to justify that the specific category is defining for that person. It may well be that the while cause of death and cause of death by lication tree is leading tk huge amounts of over categorization. I do not know at this moment.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:31, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

    This is promising! Please think some more about this, as I agree with you that it seems like a massive overcategorization. There might be some nuance that I'm unfamiliar with, but it does sound like you're thinking/engaging with how defining works. Thank you for engaging with this issue and trying to understand it. 😁 Mason (talk) 02:38, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

    We only categorize births by year, period. We avoid any other categories that directly relate to birth. With death we allow people to be in a huge array of categories. Although the biggest cause of massive categories is the number of award categories, and the biggest cause of small categories is insisting on creating triple intersection categories of nationality, instrument played and genre of music. Such might make sense if there are reasonable numbers, but when we have cases where we only have 1 identified player of x instrument from y nation, and we break her out because she played in z genre, so Belgian jazz violinists or such has 1 article, and it is the only subcat of Belgian violinist which has no direct article, we have gone too far.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:52, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

    So I think your thinking on this is pretty promising. I'd caution you from removing the single person who is in the category, as that could be disrutptive. I'd be happy to nominate the categories that you find with small numbers of people in them (as long as you leave the people in them. It helps other people decide for themselves if the category should be merged from being an overcat). Mason (talk) 02:57, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Accidental deaths in the Russian Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Accidental deaths in the Russian Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 14:09, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Alcohol-related deaths in the Russian Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Alcohol-related deaths in the Russian Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 14:14, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Countesses from the Austrian Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Countesses from the Austrian Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:40, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Knights from the Austrian Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Knights from the Austrian Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:41, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Military personnel of the Austrian Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Military personnel of the Austrian Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:49, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Immigrants to the North German Confederation has been nominated for merging

Category:Immigrants to the North German Confederation has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 14:05, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Immigrants to the Kingdom of Bavaria has been nominated for merging

Category:Immigrants to the Kingdom of Bavaria has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 14:05, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Immigrants to the Kingdom of Saxony has been nominated for merging

Category:Immigrants to the Kingdom of Saxony has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 14:09, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Cartographers from Austria-Hungary

A tag has been placed on Category:Cartographers from Austria-Hungary indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 15:00, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Soviet people of Lipka Tatar descent

A tag has been placed on Category:Soviet people of Lipka Tatar descent indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 12:07, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:People from Austria-Hungary of Armenian descent has been nominated for merging

Category:People from Austria-Hungary of Armenian descent has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 01:12, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Immigrants to Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging

Category:Immigrants to Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:41, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

November 2023

Before adding a category to an article, as you did to Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov, please make sure that the subject of the article really belongs in the category that you specified according to Wikipedia's categorization guidelines. The category being added must already exist, and must be supported by the article's verifiable content. Categories may be removed if they are deemed incorrect for the subject matter. Please stop being disruptive about categories related to the Russian Empire. Editors, like @Mellk:, have asked you repeatedly to stop removing Russian nationalities from people you consider to be part of the russian empire. Numerous people have explained to you that the Russian Empire is nested within Russia, and yet you are non-responsive and keep defying long-standing consensus. [1] [2] Mason (talk) 01:55, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov was both born in and died in the Russian Empire.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:37, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

That is not the issue. Can you please just stop removing russian categories? Mason (talk) 14:17, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Before adding a category to an article, as you did to Maria Haller, please make sure that the subject of the article really belongs in the category that you specified according to Wikipedia's categorization guidelines. The category being added must already exist, and must be supported by the article's verifiable content. Categories may be removed if they are deemed incorrect for the subject matter. Please stop removing categories that only a small number of people in them. I offered to nominate any category you found. But I asked you to not do this. It deletes categories out of process and is extremely disruptive [3] Mason (talk) 00:44, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Please stop your disruptive editing.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, as you did at Claribel Alegría, you may be blocked from editing. Please stop removing people from small categories. It is EXTREMELY disruptive. I implore you to stop doing this out of process deletion. Your comment on [4] makes it very clear that you are going to continue deleting categories out of process. Mason (talk) 03:17, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Tuberculosis deaths by country

I just noticed that the one article in Tuberculosis deaths in Bangladesh is on someone who died in 1873, about 98 years before Bangladesh came into being.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:00, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

please do not remove everyone based on the country status. Mason (talk) 02:05, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Until you get a handle on what it means to be defining, I urge you to not alter categories. You have a good handle on occupation, birthdate, and deathdate. But, otherwise, I think you're misunderstanding how and when to apply nationality and country categories. Mason (talk) 02:06, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

"Everyone", this is litterally 1 article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:07, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

I was speaking more broadly, as I am worried that you don't understand DEFINING. Mason (talk) 02:17, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

I really think we need to openly question why we allow so many small categories that intersect cause of death with place of death. However for now I will probably leave it to others to try to sort out that mess. For starters, if we really do want to have deaths in France to be only a container Category, we should tag it with a notice that it is a container category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:45, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

violinists might not be that bad. Mandolinists does have Dutch mandolinists, which has a total of 1 article, which is in the subcat, Dutch blues mandolinists. Then we have mandolinists by century, but only 20th and 21st century.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:59, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

I asked you to not remove people from small categories. Why did you do it? Mason (talk) 00:46, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Italian people from Austria-Hungary has been nominated for merging

Category:Italian people from Austria-Hungary has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 01:10, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

I think a reverse merge would make sense. I think we want to use the word people in these Category titles.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:43, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Slaves in the Ottoman Empire has been nominated for merging

Category:Slaves in the Ottoman Empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 00:38, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

All three people in the slaves in the Ottoman Empire were from elsewhere and came to the Ottoman Empire as slaves, or were captured by raiders from the Ottoman Empire and then enslaved there, akthough one how reliable his back story is mught by disputed. For skavery it seems what is defining is where the person was held as a slave, not what nationslity they may have been. So I think in is the best preposition, and we should limit based on where a person was a slave. We probably should avoid demonyms, because saying someone a slave in Brazil was Brazilian might be a step too far.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:47, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Please seek consensus before upending the current category structure. Right now we use nationality. If you would like to propose a country level scheme, I'd be happy to give you feedback on the proposal. Mason (talk) 01:39, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:British emigrants to the Colony of New Zealand has been nominated for merging

Category:British emigrants to the Colony of New Zealand has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 00:48, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Colony of New Zealand emigrants has been nominated for merging

Category:Colony of New Zealand emigrants has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 00:49, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Colony of New Zealand emigrants to colonial Australia has been nominated for merging

Category:Colony of New Zealand emigrants to colonial Australia has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 00:49, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Emigrants from colonial Australia to the Colony of New Zealand has been nominated for merging

Category:Emigrants from colonial Australia to the Colony of New Zealand has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 00:55, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Tuberculosis deaths in Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging

Category:Tuberculosis deaths in Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 04:41, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Disease-related deaths in Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging

Category:Disease-related deaths in Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 04:41, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths from cancer in Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging

Category:Deaths from cancer in Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 04:42, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Alcohol-related deaths in Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging

Category:Alcohol-related deaths in Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:24, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Road incident deaths in Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging

Category:Road incident deaths in Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:28, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths in Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging

Category:Deaths in Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:28, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Suicides in Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging

Category:Suicides in Nazi Germany has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:29, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Suicides in the Weimar Republic has been nominated for merging

Category:Suicides in the Weimar Republic has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:36, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Deaths in the Weimar Republic has been nominated for merging

Category:Deaths in the Weimar Republic has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:39, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Road incident deaths in the Weimar Republic has been nominated for merging

Category:Road incident deaths in the Weimar Republic has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:39, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Expatriates in the Weimar Republic has been nominated for merging

Category:Expatriates in the Weimar Republic has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:46, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Emigrants from the Weimar Republic has been nominated for merging

Category:Emigrants from the Weimar Republic has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:48, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Emigrants from the Weimar Republic to the Netherlands has been nominated for merging

Category:Emigrants from the Weimar Republic to the Netherlands has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:48, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Emigrants from the Weimar Republic to France has been nominated for merging

Category:Emigrants from the Weimar Republic to France has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:48, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Emigrants from the Weimar Republic to the United Kingdom has been nominated for merging

Category:Emigrants from the Weimar Republic to the United Kingdom has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:48, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Emigrants from the Weimar Republic to the United States has been nominated for merging

Category:Emigrants from the Weimar Republic to the United States has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:48, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Immigrants to the Weimar Republic has been nominated for merging

Category:Immigrants to the Weimar Republic has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 19:51, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Roman Empire hymnwriters has been nominated for renaming

Category:Roman Empire hymnwriters has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 01:37, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Expatriates from the Spanish Empire

A tag has been placed on Category:Expatriates from the Spanish Empire indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 12:04, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Emigrants from France to New France

A tag has been placed on Category:Emigrants from France to New France indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. ✗plicit 14:51, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Immigrants to Spanish Cuba has been nominated for merging

Category:Immigrants to Spanish Cuba has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:45, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Emigrants from Spain to Spanish Cuba has been nominated for merging

Category:Emigrants from Spain to Spanish Cuba has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:45, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Emigrants from Spanish Cuba has been nominated for merging

Category:Emigrants from Spanish Cuba has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:47, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Emigrants from Spanish Cuba to Spain has been nominated for merging

Category:Emigrants from Spanish Cuba to Spain has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:47, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Writers from the Viceroyalty of Peru has been nominated for merging

Category:Writers from the Viceroyalty of Peru has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:50, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Poets from the Viceroyalty of Peru has been nominated for merging

Category:Poets from the Viceroyalty of Peru has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:50, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Writers from Spanish Puerto Rico has been nominated for merging

Category:Writers from Spanish Puerto Rico has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:52, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Writers from New Spain has been nominated for deletion

Category:Writers from New Spain has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:56, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Poets from New Spain has been nominated for deletion

Category:Poets from New Spain has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 02:57, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Journalists from the Dominion of Newfoundland has been nominated for merging

Category:Journalists from the Dominion of Newfoundland has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 03:02, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Back east

I think we should eliminate the phrase "back east" from the regular text of any article. I see no reason yo have such a phrase in any article. We do have ones with it amazingly enough.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:46, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 22

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited John Gardner (Texas Ranger), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Native Americans.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:06, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Notice of Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a report involving you at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement regarding a possible violation of an Arbitration Committee decision. The thread is Johnpacklambert. Thank you. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:07, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Jurist/lawyer

Do we know the difference in the scope between a jurist and a lawyer? Is it clear enough that it makes sense to have both categories? I really think we should cut back to lawyers by nationality only, unless we can clearly describe what a jurist is, and show that this is the clear meaning when such a term is used.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:43, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

We should not categorize people by place of birth alone

I have seen way too many articles where someone was born in a place they left before age 2, and they are still categorized as from there. Sometimes it is even scientists, actors etc. from a certain city, and a person born there, but who was raised in another country where their family was long resident, the being in their place of birth only a brief stay. We need to really avoid categorizing by mere place of birth. We need to Category by a defining link to that place.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:19, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

So what do you think about People from Paris categorized as French people ? Frenchl (talk) 10:44, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

People from Paris are people who were resident in Paris for a significant time, many born there. However if they were only there a short time it is not defining.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:33, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

People from/foo people

It would make it much easier to know what Category to put people in if we consistently used one form for Category names. It would be much easier if we have a uniform format. I think it would be best if we used People from X across the board. Maybe a few demonyms, but I think we currently overuse such. We currently have way to many cases where we use people of x, x people like Colony of Jamaica people, and other irregular forms. There is no realy logic to the variations, thry just exist.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:59, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

I think Colony of Jamaica people should not be categorized as Jamaican people. Frenchl (talk) 10:47, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

The issue here is if the category would be called People from the Colony of Jamaica or Colony of Jamaica people. That is all at present.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:35, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Enh, it's fine, for my part.The less micromanaging we do the better. Micromanaging takes time, annoys the editor, and puts people into a rule-enforcement interaction mode. It's necessary for important things, not worthwhile for stuff like this, since it doesn't really degrade the reader's experience I don't think. (I could be wrong there). If it had been done in the beginning, OK, but it's too late now. Herostratus (talk) 02:18, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

It's never too late. Frenchl (talk) 11:47, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Tongan writers by century

All 4 articles in 21st-century Tongan writers are also in 20th-century Tongan writers. 5 of the 6 articles in 20th-century Tongan writers are on people who were also alive into the 21st-century. In fact 3 of the 6 articles I believe are on people still alive. I am not sure how this aides navigation at all.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:25, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

I imagine that there are other Tongan people who could be added to these categories. Mason (talk) 04:51, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

That may be so, but I do not think there are enough to justify these categories. Especially since the guidelines discourage by century categories when it is not reasonable to expect at least 3.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:09, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't know if there are enough either, but I haven't checked. Have you? Mason (talk) 21:25, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

It looks like there are only 7 articles anywhere under the Tongan writers structure. This does not look like enough to justify by century sub-dividions.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:46, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Gotcha. I wonder if there are others who just aren't tagged. Mason (talk) 22:55, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

I was able to find 1 other person who in the bio was described as a historian, so I added the article to Tongan historians. There is another who seems to be an editor of a newspaper. I think I will add him to Tongan journalists. However that looks to be about it, at least of articles we have.John Pack Lambert (talk) 23:19, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll take another look to see if I can find anymore. Mason (talk) 23:33, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

(Also, @Johnpacklambert, I think that this was a very productive conversation! Good job.) Mason (talk) 19:07, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:French people in French Cambodia has been nominated for merging

Category:French people in French Cambodia has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 16:19, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:French people in French Chad has been nominated for merging

Category:French people in French Chad has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 16:21, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:People from Acadia has been nominated for merging

Category:People from Acadia has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 16:22, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:People from the French colonial empire has been nominated for merging

Category:People from the French colonial empire has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 16:31, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:People from the District of Alaska has been nominated for merging

Category:People from the District of Alaska has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 15:57, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:People from the Department of Alaska has been nominated for merging

Category:People from the Department of Alaska has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mason (talk) 15:57, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:30, 28 November 2023 (UTC)