User talk:Jkennethfineart

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Jocob Semiatin (February 27)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Hoary were:

This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources.

This submission does not appear to be written in the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia article. Entries should be written from a neutral point of view, and should refer to a range of independent, reliable, published sources. Please rewrite your submission in a more encyclopedic format. Please make sure to avoid peacock terms that promote the subject.

The comment the reviewer left was:

It's not obvious why private collections are of interest to anyone other than the particular collector, or, on their death, their estate. But anyway each item in "Museum and Private Collections" needs to be referenced.

"Semiatin served his country as a private in the army at Camp Upton in Yaphank, New York": We know that being a private is serving one's country. Thus "Semiatin was a private in the army at Camp Upton in Yaphank, New York".

"Semiatin became uniquely known as an abstract watercolorist." I suppose that this means that he became the only known abstract watercolorist. However, an implied "I can't think of another one; can you?" is insufficient. You have to cite a reliable source saying that he was the only known abstract watercolorist.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Jocob Semiatin and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Jocob Semiatin, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Hoary (talk) 00:44, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Jkennethfineart! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Hoary (talk) 00:44, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

1) "Flowery" language removed. 2) I can't find a listed artist (famous or otherwise) on Wikipedia who's museum collections are actually cited. They only appear listed. This obviously raises serious questions about the validity of all of these claims across-the-board. I expect this artist to be treated the same as "famous artists'" museum lists which do not appear to be questioned by Wikipedia editors. 3) The artist had published a book which can be accessed at libraries including the LACMA museum library, which is a lending library and research center. This book is published by a publishing company. There are also statements by other important people in this publication. 4) Private collections removed 5) The archived information concerning life, death, marriage, birthplace, military service and family relationships apper properly cited. 6) according to my research, the galleries cited in solo exhibitions no longer exist. The information trail appears dead except for the artist's published book which was published by a publishing company. Jkennethfineart (talk) 18:11, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Jacob Semiatin (February 27)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Hoary was:

This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources.

The comment the reviewer left was:

None of the six claims that Semiatin's works are in this or that collection comes with a reference. Each must be referenced. As for the other material here, a large percentage of it is sourced to a book by Semiatin himself. There should be references to disinterested sources, independent of Semiatin.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Jacob Semiatin and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Jacob Semiatin, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
If you do not make any further changes to your draft, in 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Hoary (talk) 07:38, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Username and conflict of interest

I found good references for everything I tagged {{better source}}, but just as I was finishing up with a search on [ "Jacob Semiatin" museum ], the very first record that I got was https://www.jkennethfineart.com/jacob-semiatin, which told me two things:

There is a problem with your user name, as it's the name of company or entity per WP:ORGNAME. Just under the policy in the link, there are steps to resolve the issue.
There is a conflict of interest issue, which means that you'd need to declare the relationship (see the link for more info) and generally changes are only made to the page upon request, see edit requests.

I am not sure where this leaves us at this point. I think that there is a significant question about notability. And, I am not sure the best way to solve the COI issue. My best guess is: I could create the article in article space (if Hoary things it's a viable article) - and we could declare the COI relationship on the talk page using the {{Connected contributor}} template.

Hoary, I am not sure how this kind of situation would be dealt with in Articles for creation requests. What do you think about the COI issue, notability, and the sources after my updates?–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:35, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I mentioned on Draft:Jacob Semiatin that I found some articles here.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:44, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

CaroleHenson, thank you for bringing this up. I hope that Jkennethfineart changes their username and is candid about having previously been Jkennethfineart. Then, with their acknowledged COI, they're free to continue editing Draft:Jacob Semiatin, in the hope that this will eventually become Jacob Semiatin. What they should not do is edit Jacob Semiatin (other than to revert blatant vandalism, and similar). So, even putting aside the question about the adequacy of the cited sources, it's a bad idea to promote this to article status at this stage. ¶ Now for the cited sources. Virtually all are either Semiatin's book or otherwise "primary". They should be independent of Semiatin, and published. ¶ We read: In 1957 Semiatin had his first one-man show at Contemporary Arts Gallery in New York, which is known for introducing artists Mark Rothko and Mark Tobey. Semiatin had two solo exhibitions at Gallerie Internationale in 1962 and 1964. Were there no reviews of any of these three? ¶ We're also told that his works are in various collections. Each of these claims should be verified. (See for example this, though the article that contains it is problematic.) If any claim can't be verified, it should be removed. As for those that can be verified, an artist is regarded as notable if "[their] work (or works) has: [...] been represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums", so that would fix the "notability" problem. -- Hoary (talk) 23:32, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hoary, Great points. So, it basically gets down to whether or not it can be shown that his work has been shown or is a part of the collections of notable galleries or museums.

I think it would be better to focus on what exhibitions took place. I added a link to archive.org above where specific exhibitions are mentioned in independent secondary sources... and there were some that came up in a google search (which could be the same exhibitions). I will see what I can do... but totally agree that the draft should not be moved to article space until notability is resolved. I will leave it up to you whether there is sufficient notability.–CaroleHenson (talk) 01:29, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hoary, I finished my edits, but as I was finishing up, I noticed Jkennethfineart was editing the draft. ~~There's now a duplicate statement about the Arkansas Museum. I am just leaving it alone at the moment,~~ but now that it's known that there is a conflict of interest, Jkennethfineart shouldn't be editing the page.

It should be ready to be reviewed for notability now. It has everything that I could find.–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:15, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Strike out the part that is fixed now.–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:24, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jkennethfineart, although CaroleHenson writes that you "shouldn't be editing the page", you're free (and indeed welcome) to do so, as long as it's a draft. I quote Wikipedia:Articles for creation, which says of the preparation of drafts: "If you have a conflict of interest with the topic you are writing about, you should disclose it on the draft's talk page." You haven't yet done this. Please do it, on Draft talk:Jacob Semiatin. Furthermore, anyone editing the draft for you should do the same, and anyone who's being paid to edit the draft -- whether paid specifically for the draft or doing it as part of a waged or salaried job -- must disclose this. Whether paid or not, an editor with a conflict of interest should not continue to edit after promotion from draft to article (other than to correct obvious vandalism, etc), but remains welcome to suggest improvements in the article's talk page. -- Hoary (talk) 06:56, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate that very much. I also appreciate the help that people have given. I will list my involvement with Semiatin Estate and family. Everyone involved wants this to be a clear, concise and straightforward biography. Jkennethfineart (talk) 08:29, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies re: editing as a draft. I missed Hoary's distinction between editing the draft vs. the article. That's new to me (that someone with a conflict of interest can work on drafts).–CaroleHenson (talk) 11:11, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

At this point im Jkennethfineart (talk) 16:01, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. At this point I'll continue researching exhibition history and collections. I might switch sentences around on the page to reflect a more accurate time line as illustrated through the exhibition history. Thank you. Jkennethfineart (talk) 16:04, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Transparency

Thank you. I think I need to get my editor friends in here to help clarify and neutralize these issues. Jkennethfineart (talk) 22:27, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent!–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:32, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

I shall have another impartial party edit this draft.

Can anyone explain why other artists' museum collections are not held to the same standard proposed here? I can't find any museum collections cited for artists on Wikipedia - including well-known artists. The museums are listed, but not cited, i.e. what the art object is and when it was acquired, etc.

Also, I do have a New York Times review of a 1960s show that I will give to my editor. Thanks for the suggestions of supporting evidence. Jkennethfineart (talk) 00:33, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

First, this "impartial party", and the person you describe as "my editor": is this an employee, intern, or friend? ¶ Secondly, yes, there are indeed very many articles in Wikipedia about artists that offer only the feeblest evidence, if any, for claims of being represented in this or that collection. Two points about this. (1) Bluntly, there's a lot of crap in Wikipedia. There's a certain approach to arguing for the merits of dodgy drafts, an approach that appeals to the existence of one, several, or all of these crap articles; it can be and often is called the "WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS" argument, and it's unpersuasive. I presume that Semiatin merits something better than a crap article, and I imagine that you do too. (2) In order to get an article, Semiatin is going to require demonstrable notability (as understood in Wikipedia), and currently it looks to me as if his best chance is the claim that his work is represented in several reputable museums. This will have to rest on solid evidence. ¶ Here's another of the many referenced lists of collections. As for the many poorly referenced or unreferenced lists, you are of course very welcome to flag some of them as in need of referencing (see Wikipedia:Template index/Sources of articles), or (far better) to improve their referencing. -- Hoary (talk) 01:08, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Very well said, Hoary. If you want other examples jkenneth, please see my woman artists and visual arts articles. I added sources if I put in a list of collections or exhibitions when I worked on the articles.–CaroleHenson (talk) 01:36, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Help

Thanks for all of the help. I will step away from this now and allow others to assist in getting the page right. Jkennethfineart (talk) 04:26, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Second / official notification re: username

Welcome to Wikipedia. I noticed that your username, "Jkennethfineart", may not meet Wikipedia's username policy because The is the company owned by the user, who has worked on at least one article for a deceased artist whose works they exhibit.. If you believe that your username does not violate our policy, please leave a note here explaining why. As an alternative, you may ask for a change of username by completing the form at Special:GlobalRenameRequest, or you may simply create a new account for editing. Thank you. –CaroleHenson (talk) 03:30, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't had to go the "official route" before, and found out that you needed to receive this specific notice. And, as an FYI (and a reminder for me so I don't need to look it up again), that if you don't change your username, the next step is Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User names.

I saw that you made edits to one of the pages that I "watch". It had promotional and conflict of interest content that you added that day and a few months ago, so I had to remove the sentence and citation. It would be really great if you could change your username on your own - using the links provided. And, you shouldn't be adding promotional content to articles.–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:35, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I thought that I could still edit under the business name as long as I was citing material correctly. However, I can change my account. It can get confusing. I can have an associate cite information that pertains directly to that business. Jkennethfineart (talk) 03:40, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but having an associate update the content is still a conflict of interest. There are two issues to resolve: establishing a non-promotional username + conflict of interest edits.–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:43, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

On a separate note, as a "watcher" of an artists page, why are there no citations in museum collections. I am just curious. I do know for a fact that Drexler is in those museum collections listed, but no one has taken the time to cite the information and nobody seems to care that they are not cited. Is there a group that discusses this topic? Jkennethfineart (talk) 04:38, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am guessing you are talking about the Lynne Mapp Drexler article. There is a citation after "Her works are in the collections of:[6]"

Yes, there's the Wikipedia:WikiProject Visual arts group. And, you can raise questions on the talk page: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Visual arts. That's a really great and helpful group. It would be best if you use your new username.–CaroleHenson (talk) 04:47, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I need to create one.

That citation in Drexler appears to be a dead link from long ago. Jkennethfineart (talk) 04:59, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the archived source. Yes, it is from 2014. I am not sure what your point is... that there should be a statement that it's "as of 2014"? Something else?

Looking closer at the article, there needs to be some tightening up of some of the sources. I will work on that a bit.–CaroleHenson (talk) 06:22, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Concern regarding Draft:Jacob Semiatin

Hello, Jkennethfineart. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Jacob Semiatin, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 04:02, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your draft article, Draft:Jacob Semiatin

Hello, Jkennethfineart. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Jacob Semiatin".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:32, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Publishing Jacob Semiatin

I think that this article is acceptable for publishing. All relevant source materials appear to be correct and cited properly. Thanks. Jkennethfineart (talk) 22:45, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Jacob Semiatin has been accepted

Jacob Semiatin, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

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Thanks again, and happy editing!

Spinster300 (talk) 18:45, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]