User talk:Jigaraphale

Type AM subs

You need a source for your change. Both Chesneau and Bagnasco in the references call them Type AM Lyndaship (talk) 09:31, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The submarine type is "巡潜甲型改二潜水艦" in Japanese, which is generally translated as either:

Junsen Type A Kai 2 Submarine (keeping Japanse romaji)
Type A Mod.2 Submarine Cruiser (fully translated)
Or with the Junsen/Cruiser part being omitted.

Since it is the 3rd sub-type of the "Type A", the name should either be "Type A Mod.2", "Type AM2", or "Type A3" (the latter following the Type B scheme).

I would also advocate keeping the "Kai" (改) as it is not properly translatable, resulting in the "Type A Kai 2", just like it is done on other Japanese craft on Wikipedia (the Kawanishi N1K family of aircraft is a good example, with later versions being called Shiden Kai 2 up to Kai 4)

Since other IJN SS of the related types share the same naming scheme, those ones should follow the same translation scheme.

English historians seem to use the "Type AM" naming as a miss translation of "改二" (Kai 2), which is often translated as "Mark 2" (aka 1st modification), where it should be translated as "Mark 3" (2nd modification). On the same note, the previous sub-type is the "改一" (Kai 1), and so could be translated as "Type A Mod.1", "Type AM1", or "Type A2", but since "Type AM1" could be confused with "Type AM" used to designate the "Type A Kai 2", this should be avoided.

Independently, English historians also add a "class" to those types, with here the "Type A Kai 2" being of the I-13-class, with class names being simply determined by the lead ship of the class, something not in use by the IJN for small vessels, but used by the USN, and so being a common practice to standardize ship class naming. Jigaraphale (talk) 10:01, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not saying you are wrong - I simply don't know but you must back up your assertion with WP:RS. I suggest you read WP:V and WP:TRUTH. The current sources listed support Type AM Lyndaship (talk) 11:19, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then I sadly don't have an exterior source for the translation, other than my knowledge in Japanese naming.

If you want, I can add a disclaimer based on my previous answer on how this class is often referred to as the "Type AM", but the translation of the Japanese name should be closer to "Type A Mod. 2" or even "Junsen Type A Kai 2".

I can also point to the main page (Type A submarine) which explains the same translation.

I've also called a friend that has some books on the matter, to see if he finds something else... Jigaraphale (talk) 12:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a potential disclaimer here User:Jigaraphale#Name_Translation if you want to take a look (feel free to edit it). Jigaraphale (talk) 12:33, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]