User talk:James.folsom/2007

Mechanism of Reaction

James.folsom, I want to thank you for your contributions to the Hypochlorous acid page. I am currently trying my best to understand the mechanism by which hypochlorous acid (in vivo) reacts with D-erythro sphingosylposphorylcholine (SPC) (also called [(E,2S,3R)-2-amino-3-hydroxyoctadec-4-enyl] 2-(trimethylazaniumyl)ethyl phosphate)To produce 2-hexadecenal and 1-cyano methano phosphocholine (also called cyanomethyl(2-(trimethylammonio)ethyl)phosphate). This specific reaction is the subject of a paper "Novel carbonyl and nitrile products from reactive chlorinating species attack of lysosphingolipid" doi:10.1016/j.chemphyslip.2006.10.006

If you have any advice at all, please send me a reply! Thanks Tmbirkhead (talk) 05:56, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Question about Hypochlorous Acid Mechanism of Action

Hi, I'm a little confused on the Mechanism of Action section of Hypochlorous Acid. I think you wrote it, so just wondering if you could clear things up.

There are three sections: Inhibition of glucose oxidation, Depletion of adenine nucleotides, and Inhibition of DNA replication

Are ALL of these believed to be true at this, or are some ideas that were thought to be true at one point and are now disproven?

Do you know the certain parts of a cell hypochlorous acid attacks when it disinfects?

Thanks,

Nonie —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hpfanatic (talk • contribs) 00:03, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Well yeah it it is a sort of a historical narrative as well. Having just read over it again, I think I can clear it up some more. The problem is finding time.

Basically there are a lot of reactions taking place, but the cell is already dead prior to most of them. It seems apparent that membrane bound ATPases are specifically inactivated in such a way as to uncouple the production of ATP from the proton motive force. Basically the ATPases become holes thru which protons can freely escape. This loss of energy, combined with the inability to form viable daughter cells due to loss of membrane proteins responsible for chromosomal segregation is fairly fatal. Both reactions happen early and at the same time as cell death. Other reactions described also occur but are postmortem. Specific info is covered in the references. In many cases, I can email articles, if your intensely interested.

That section need to be linked to other articles, and explained in simpler terms, but I tend to only have time for such things between post-doctoral jobs.

Question, Can it really be Crystalized Hypochlorous Acid?

Hi James,

Since you seem to know something about Hypochlorous acid I am hopeful you can solve a mystery for me!

I have been producing Hydrogen and Chlorine on a small scale for research needs. I built a nice little electrolysis devices to break down NaCl producing H2, Cl2, and NaOH. To protect my cells (from back flash) in the electrolysis device I am bubbling both the H2 and Cl2 through water. I understand that when I do that I create Hypochlorous acid (HClO) on the Cl2 side. My initial thought was this would quickly saturate and the Cl2 would then just pass without any more losses. In general this is what I have seen; except…

Because I don’t want to breath any escaping Cl2 I am operating this in the larger unheated area of my shop, and the electrolysis works fine until the temperature drops below about 5C, then I start to form a light yellowish crystalline precipitant in the bottom of my Cl2 water. Also, where the Cl2 bubbles into the water crystals form ultimately blocking the flow of the Cl2 gas and backing up the electrolysis.

I drained the top of the chlorine water off leaving only a little water and the crystals. I then lightly capped off the bottle and let it warm up. A comparatively large amount of Cl2 was generated popping off the cork many times with a very strong Cl2 odor and Cl2 yellowish gas. The crystals slowly, completely, and cleanly dissolved away. My assumption is, is that I had crystallized HClO in the bottom of my chlorine bottle. What else could it be?

I could not find any data on saturated chlorine water at cool temps, or at what temperature HClO will crystallize. I have no idea for sure this is what is happening. As a stop gap, instead of bubbling my Cl2 through water I am bubbling it through a 20% HCl solution in hopes that the amount of HClO dissolved will be minimized and crystals will not form; but this assumes that it is crystalline HClO. If it is, isn’t this very interesting? Doesn’t it have practical applications for chlorine storage as this is happening at atmospheric pressure and easily obtainable cool temps? Hard to believe… any help would be appreciated.

KeithRV (talk) 19:42, 27 March 2008 (UTC)KeithRV

I thought about this, and looked into it. I suspect your dealing with Hydrate of chlorine, or hydrate of ClO, maybe both, but I'm not a chemist. I put a google book link below that has info on this. From reading it, your dilute HCl will likely make things worse.

http://books.google.com/books?id=qD04AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA243&lpg=PA243&dq=hypochlorous+acid+hydrate&source=web&ots=hRKjwmqIRm&sig=Eb3bLbsf8vDpw4UjqR0_8tQEfvE&hl=en#PPA244,M1

James.folsom (talk) 14:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks James,

I think you are absolutely correct! This must be hydrate of chlorine. I am pretty much doing exactly what your link said, reduce the temp to 5C (2C-3C is close), and then add HCl. What my apparatus actually produces is NaOH and HCl acid. Once I create the H2 and Cl2 I ignite the H2 and Cl2 in a combustion chamber in a humid atmosphere. Since I get little explosions, very likely some of that hydrogen Chlorine gas blows back (which is why I have the flash back water trap to begin with) into my Cl2 water forming hydrochloric acid in the chlorine water and thus creating the hydrate of chlorine crystals at low temperatures; this is so very clearly what is happening. However, when I changed my water to an HCl solution, this DID FIX my problem! I now have several hundred hours of operations at temps below 3C with NO crystal formation! The only thing I can figure is that since I started with clean HCl and water, the HClO never really dissolved in the solution, and therefore there is no HClO to form any hydrate of chlorine. But I’m only partially okay with this explanation because my solution still takes on a very yellow color, so is this just the ClO- ion? What do I know? I’m not a chemist either, I’m just a dumb engineer!

KeithRV (talk) 15:56, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

On further reading and examining of how my apparatus works, I think, in addition HCl blow back, I also just percipitated the hydrate of chlorine by cooling a saturated HClO solution. Apparently 9C-10C is the maximum saturation point and just cooling the chlorine water will also cause hydrate of chlorine cystals to form. I typically would start my apparatus during the day, around 10C when it is warmer, and then during the night when it cools I get the crystals. And this is probably why crystals also form at the point where the Cl2 bubbles into the water. It is hard to understand exactly why starting with HCl water would solve this problem, but it does seem to work.

KeithRV (talk) 16:21, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

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