User talk:Jack O'Lantern/Archive3

Luso-Americans

Dear Jack, as always ethnic classification generates polemics and odd situations. I think a list of a single "List of Portuguese and other Luso Americans" would do better, since there are many hard-to-classify cases:

• First, Horace Silver and Michael Beach are not of Brazilian ancestry, but Cape-Verdean;

• Second, Multi-cultural (or origins of some people) - Carmen Miranda, although being native from Portugal, she was a Brazilian citizen and was policultural (Portuguese, Brazilian and American). Similiar situation for the post-colonial immigrants, like Dinesh d'Souza and Teresa Heinz Kerry

• Third- most of the Luso-Sephardi families in North America, came from the Jewish communities of Netherlands and Hamburg, but VIA Brazil and Caribbean, as the case of the founders of the Congregation Shearith Israel of New York, that among its members were Benjamin Cardozo, Judah P. Benjamin, Emma Lazarus, and Mordecai Manuel Noah

I'd like to have your oppion on it. Thnx --Leonardo Alves 20:16, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Jewish Americans (con't)

• Thanks JOL for your response. I figured as much but its nice to hear it from another editor. I have actually found that this "problem/issue" is MUCH larger than I first believed. Their are TONS of this biographies that got changed to "Jewish American" back in October of 2005. Many of them are of VERY obscure people. Its like somebody went on a "Jewish Outing" rampage. I won't even get into wether we can source if the person is "Jewish" or not. I'll just stick to reverting as many of this changed biographies as I can. Fun stuff :( ps just curious, why are you now "mad" JOL??? Thanks again! Tom 18:05, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Italian Americans

I wrote in the discussion page some changes I don't agree with. Check it out. The same for Sprouse page. --Doctor01 18:53, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

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About Sprouse' page

I want to be clear so we won't fight for nothing. I appreciate your work on that page but I'd like the sentences to be objective. I was the first to update the Sprouse' page from stub to a real and complete page with a pic. So I'm workin the same way you do. IMDB is still used (and u can verify it) as a source in many Wiki pages. No problem if u found an uncorrect info, but can you prove it ? The same for the Italian problem: no-one said they are pure Italians, it was reported (I don't know who removed that) they where born in Italy so they have dual citizenship. I think this must be written on the page. Obviously they are not Italian, no way. But they CAN be reported as Italian American according to their citizenship. That's all. It was also written their parents worked in Tuscany, why are u still removing it ? It's an extra info. --Doctor01 11:28, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

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Joe Beaudoin Jr. ^{Think out loud} 15:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Image:Reindeer gamesaffleck.jpg listed for deletion

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Joe Beaudoin Jr. ^{Think out loud} 15:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Image:Jlucasposeidon.jpg

Hi, if there is a free image that shows pretty much the same info (i.e. same age, hairstyle etc.) we can't really argue fair use. Also it's probably best not to crop screenshots as it looks as if you are then just using it as a way of showing that person's portrait rather than showing them in a film scene which you can make a comment upon. Arniep 20:31, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I know you didn't crop it but it is cropped. It's just that particular image does not really show much different info to the free image. You can use screenshots as long as they are sufficiently different to the free image, and they show a scene which can have a commentary placed upon it describing what is going on (which is hard if you can only see just that person's face or body). Arniep 20:38, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Kilmer

Hey there Jack O'Lantern, I remember having seen your edits on the Val Kilmer page, given your success with GAs, would you be interested in working that article up to such a level? Its already in good-ish shape now as well. Cvene64 21:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow, you really fixed it up! Nice work. The only remaining issues are the fairuse rationale and whether we should put in a celeb infobox, and possibly, the expansion of the personal section. Nice work again. Cheers. Cvene64 09:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey Jack O'Lantern, I just realized I cleared my talk page without noticing your reply regarding Kilmer, sorry! I think we should add the infobox, as they usually look nice, and I will try and track down some mor references. Cheers. Cvene64 03:08, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Embeth Davidtz

Hi Jack,

I don't know whether Embeth Davidtz is Jewish, I think I actually removed that part of her bio (since she was originally called a "Jewish American" actress).

But I strongly suspect that she might be Jewish, due to her surname, as well as the fact that her husband is Jewish (or they got married in a Jewish ceremony). I read this in a South African magazine where she talked about the wedding, and how they "stepped on the glass" or whatever you call that part of the ceremony.

Marcelle 07:54, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Davidtz

PS, I never said Embeth Davidtz was Jewish, I actually removed that part. I am still not 100% sure if she is, so I'd rather not put it in.

There is quite a discussion on www.imdb.com of how she "identifies" (i.e. "South African", "American", "English") though, since nobody can seem to pin-point her accent either! In that South African article I talked about, they called it "mid-Atlantic".

Marcelle 08:44, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Liv Tyler

You stated that one should only include nationalities in such instances that a person is 50%+ a nationality, yet you erased French-American from Liv Tyler's profile, even though her mother is classified as being of French descent. Michael 06:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Lists

Hi Jack. This sounds like a copout, I know, but I'm very busy at the moment and just don't have the time to fight it out on every list page on the wiki. The criteria on Talk:List of British Jews are though I think excellent. They fit the policies perfectly. The key is not to allow interpretation. Either the source says "X is a foo" or it doesn't. We do not decide what makes someone a foo and what doesn't. When I have more time, I'll look at some of the pages you're working on. What I suggest though is simply to do the edits you want.

Write on the talk page that you intend to remove everyone who is not sourced. Then do it. Literally everyone. If you leave three, four names only, don't worry. If people want them to be put back on the list, they have to provide sources. Keep removing them if they're put back without sources. Remind the other editors of the key policies: WP:NOR disallows judgements and synthesis; WP:V makes it clear that we include information that can be verified without regard to our view on whether it's true; WP:RS describes what is a good source. Don't break the 3RR. Remember that what matters is the result three months from now, not what's there today or tomorrow.

I hope that's some help. Do feel free to borrow my messages from Talk:List of British Jews if you think that you can adapt them. Grace Note 10:52, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Davidtz

I don't know if her mother is French either, since I read (in the article I mentioned) that her mother is an English speaking South African, just like her father. She might have some French Hugenot (sp?) ancestry though, like half of the South African population...

Maggie Q

Why do you keep taking the "irish" and "polish" american categorys away from Maggie Q but still leave the Vietnamese on there? She has a white dad you know just because she may look more vietnamese to you (im assuming since you seem to leave vietnamese-americans but take out irish/polish) doesnt mean she isnt half-white as well. --Franch 16:37, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

This article [1] states she was born to a Polish American father. Is that not good enough? --Franch 11:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: List_of_Polish_Americans

I misread the diffs as vandalism. I reverted it back after reading what was what. --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 06:46, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey MadJack, I am back. I am going to challenge you for the ethnicity expert award soon :). Hey seriously, I am getting a little bit more brave out there so I am sure to step on more toes. I am going to give Jewish folks a break for now and "go after" the Poles. I have both in my heritage :). People born in the US seems pretty straight forward. How would you deal with Polish born Americans? Would you list them as "Joe Smoe was a Polsih born American tiddle wink player" or as per Wiki style would it depend on WHEN they gained their notarity?? My take is if the person came to the US when they were 4 years old and then went on to cure cancer, they would be an American scientist, ect. If they came here at age 20 say, they would be Polish born American?? Non US born citizens seem to present the most difficulty and the most toes to be stepped on. The "lists", IMO are out off hand but whatever. I am more concerned with the actual bios. MOST people take GREAT pride in their heritage and want that attributed to famous people it seems. I am a mut that considers myself American :) Again, your insights are appreciated and have a pleasent day. --Tom 18:53, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Will do. I am probably just going to stick to US born bios since they seem least problematic and there are tons of them I am sure --Tom 19:00, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for note of encouragement

Firstly, thanks for the note of encouragement - it's feels good to get positive feedback - especially since I am new @ this.

Also, just read discussion page on 'List of Croats' - just so you are aware - whilst I did add the definition (new to Wikipedia & still getting acquanted with 3RR) & clarified Croat ancestry of members; I am not the person who was writing in caps & querying who deleted the Croat-Americans from the list - I knew from the audit trail that it was you.

While I am here, I woud like to ask the following question in the context of "List of Croatian people" - what constitutes a Croatian - ethnic Croat? residence in Croatia? Affiliation with Croat Culture? Born in Croatia? Citizen of Croatia? Where is this defined in the Wikipedia guidelines? The reason I ask is that Croatia has a very large diaspora, members of which will be involved to varying degrees - cultural, political, religious activities, visit the homeland regularly etc Taking myself as an example (I know, I know, no original research - just tryingto understand concept), I am Australian born & raised, living in Japan & consider myself Croatian. The way I see it, if someone is born or raised in Croatia, then they are Croatian. If they are born o/s to one or more Croat parents & take an interest or have pride in their heritage, then they are Croatian as well. Any thoughts or guidelines?

Cheers, croatian_quoll 19:06, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

A Croatian dijaspora page as an adjunct to the List of Croatians page sounds like a good idea.

Thanks croatian_quoll 19:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes. croatian_quoll 19:37, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, we should note that Croatians in the dijaspora tend to have a stronger feeling of Croatianess - partly as a result of dislocation from the motherland & partly b/c they are a minority group in the immigrant countries. croatian_quoll 19:40, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Please do. I'll add the Australians in when I get a chance. Cheers, croatian_quoll 19:44, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Jack, you've said: ",,,If you have a reliable source that fits that please restore the names..." (of Americans that we claim that they are Croats/of Croat origin). What shall we do when there's no website in English that prooves that certain person is of Croatian origin? Please see talk page of the article "List of Croatians". Kubura 07:11, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

List of Jewish-American politicians

MadJ, is it me?? Seriously, the list has a number of entries under Presidential candidates?? Has there been ANY? I thought Lieberman being Vice Presidential candidate was big news. Anyways, I am going to edit over there and I am VERY open to discussion or revision as other see appropriate. Thanks again, --Tom 20:42, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey. Actually, after rethinking the list, Leiberman was a Presidential candidate, breifly, NOT nominated oh course, so I added him back in. Goldwater wasn't Jewish but, "....His father was Jewish but later converted to the Episcopal Church to marry his fiancée....". ??Is that even sourced?? Also, Wesley Clark ......"Wesley grew up Baptist" His article makes mention that his father "Benjamin was the son of Jacob Kanne and Ida Goldman, immigrants from Russia (Clark's middle name, Kanne, refers to his grand father's lineage as a Kohen, a descendant of the ancient Jewish priests)"

I appreciate your efforts. Just to clarify what you are doing with the list, to be added to say a Jewish American list, the person must CONSIDER THEMSLVES Jewish?? Is that how it works? So Clark wouldn't be added??

Anyways, Lets just keep plugging away...Thanks! --Tom 21:46, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Sprouse article

Hey, I just had a look at it. I agree with you that the image "shows another side of them", but, it's a tad confusing, at first sight, I thought both of the people in the poster were them, and I thought it was an advertisement. I'm not sure. It's probably not fail-worthy, but I'm not sure about it. Cvene64 04:01, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I guess that would be better, if the film is notable to them, I'm not familiar with them, but yeah sure. Cvene64 05:27, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

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Stanley Dunin

Hi MadJ, iaammmm baccckkkkk :) Can you take a peak at this bio. I got into a tiff with his daughter. She is pissed at me. Is the term Polish-American EVER used in bios? This guy was born there, can to US at age of 12 and became citizen at age 29. Dunin has DEFINATE notable Polish descent/background/relatives. Thanks and NO RUSH...--Tom 16:05, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_name_controversy

Since there are so few big name Native Actors I'll leave this one be. 132.241.246.111 19:34, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

List of Greeks

Please stop changing this to suit your own preferences. The list has since its inception included those defined by the summary; the title (as in many similar cases) is a shorthand for its contents, which are more fully described in the article. If you believe that there is genuinely a problem, why not take this to RfC, and we'll see how many editors agree with you? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:17, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Greeks

Thanks for the backup on the Greek page. I'm going to be away for two weeks starting tomorrow night, but feel free to drop any questions on my page and I'll get back to you when I get back. (If I get back... :) ) Mad Jack O'Lantern 03:52, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Anytime! Have a great trip! Working on the Greek bios, I can't get the movie "My big fat Greek wedding" out of my head :). Awesome movie.... Later, --Tom 12:32, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

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Thelonius Bernard

You removed information from this artical which was cited w/out explanation. Please explain. 69.91.10.244 15:19, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

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RE: Seamus Davey-Fitzpatrick

The Mcall article, which says he is 7 and was a first grader this past year (a person is first grade from fall 2005 to spring 2006 would have been born in 1999 or late-1998).--Fallout boy 02:32, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

That's why it says "circa 1999". It wouldn't be original research because his age has already been published.--Fallout boy 02:39, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I suppose.--Fallout boy 02:46, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

My user account isn't blocked, but my IP 216.221.81.98 is (because of an anon vandal), and therefore I too am unable to edit. Mad Jack 19:07, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Unblocked. Vsmith 02:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

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List of Romanian-Americans

Hi! I've found sources about the people you mentioned that they were not "real Romanian-Americans", and I want to tell you that I will add them on the list as soon as possibile, witht the sources provided, of course. Cheers, Arthur 12 June 2006

Well

First,tell me about it and see if i do something you dont go and edit someone's user page,o.k. just common courtesy.--Cowboy From Hell 20:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC)DJ BatWave

WHAT?!!!

On the Vanessa Anne Hudgens article with the old biography was my biography. Thats my account on TV.COM and I posted it on here. And she' is gonna be on When A Stranger Calls Again??? User:VanessaLuver4EvER

Welcome back!

Like to comment?? [2] Thamks! --Tom 00:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Eric Lloyd

I came across it when he was featured on the front of IMDB. In the message boards several people confirmed where he was from and who he was, and one posted this senior picture. While a message board is not a very reliable source, I doubt you'd find a reliable source for something like this. — BRIAN0918 • 2006-06-16 06:40

Marvel

Pumpkin-headed guy. Fought Spider-Man. That's about all I know -- he was pretty similar to Hobgoblin. --Tenebrae 20:23, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Wasn't Mad Jack a bad guy in X-Men 2099? -- Tenebrae 20:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, good working with you in any case! -- Tenebrae 20:27, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

List of Romanian-Americans

Hi! I wanted to tell you that I found sources for the most of the Romanian-Americans you mentioned that are needing external links. I would like as you take a look there and tell me if something's wrong. Thanks! Arthur 16 June 2006

Lilienthal

His jewish ancestry is very much debateable. The page history had this link [3] that talked about it. It also seems like Lilienthal is thrown in the bag of "people who have jewish-sounding surnames". That's all. Sorry for removing the header. LaGrange 22:33, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Multiracial people

When adding people to this list, please add a source that describes them as "multiracial" and "biracial". I'm working on fixing up and fully sourcing that list that way, and then getting the tag off. Cheers Mad Jack 02:54, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I think that the source should better be shown/referenced in the article for the person concerned, rather than at the end of the "List of multiracial people" list. This is so that the list page doesn't grow out of control. As it is, what with your insistence on adding the reference source at the bottom, the list page size has practically doubled. This is not exactly adding to the readability of the list. -- Jalabi99 02:58, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, well I'm not going to insist on this method of sourcing - so if you want to change it back - go ahead. Mad Jack 02:59, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Okidokey! :) Thanks for your blessing. -- Jalabi99 03:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

(Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jalabi99")

Nelly Furtado

I reverted your edit to Nelly Furtado, because, according to Wikipedia:Guide to layout, References, Footnotes and External links should all be second level headings and not subsections of one another. --Fritz S. (Talk) 20:23, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Mark Begich

I have re-added Mark Begich to the List of Croatian Americans article. My basis for re-adding him to the list can be found on the List of Croatian Americans Talk page. --TommyBoy 08:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

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Mark Begich Source

In response to your comments on the Talk page for List of Croatian Americans, I have found a possible source justifying the inclusion of Mark Begich on the List, which can be found on that same Talk page. If you feel that my source is sufficient, please re-include him in the List. Since he has been deleted from the List twice, I will not re-include him without your agreement, or the agreement of a third party. --TommyBoy 19:11, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

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yeah not that great of vandalism, but what are you gonna do, you know.

Archive2

Don't duplicate Archive1. I change a second link to Archive2 at the top of your talk page. -- ADNghiem501 05:14, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Natalie Portman

I saw from the history that you left a post on Natalie Portman's talk page regarding Jerusalem, but I can't find your comment on the page. I don't know if I removed it inadvertently when I made a fresh post. If I did then I apologise, it was unintentional. I can replace your post at the bottom of the section. Alun 11:28, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

OK I think we have reached an impass. I am prepared to leave the article as it is, though I do think there are now some minor NPOV issues there, these do not relate to the subject of the article. I want to archive the discussions on the talk page regarding Jerusalem if it is OK with you. I don't want to do this unless you agree, so I will wait for a response from you. All the best. Alun 06:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Reg:Jenascia Chakos By the way

If you use that logic then you might as well take her off the Filipino list as well because she does not describe herself as "Filipino" either, she describes her FATHER as Filipino. Oh and you might want to read her reply correctly. The "something else" is in refrence to the German and Irish, NOT the Greek. The Question was: "You are very exotic, what are your nationalities?" HER reply "My father is Filipino. He came over to the U.S. with his family when he was 17. My mother is Greek, Cherokee Indian, English and possibly Irish and German. There's some dispute." AND in this reply: "Hey, J! What's your ethnic background?" Her reply "I am half Filipino; the other half is a mixture of Greek, English, Indian, Irish and German." So guess what, she is describing herself as such not only as nationalities BUT ethnically. XXXX 23 June 2006

Actuall she also does call herself as Greek, unless you think the "other half" she is refering to is her imaginary twin. If she did not consider herself the ethnicities she mentions, not in ones BUT in every interview which ask her about her ethnicity, then she would be answering "half Filipino and AMERICAN". XXXX 23 June 2006

JoJo

Yes, JoJo is Triple H's neice. I heard it on TV and besides how many people have that same last name? The Punk 21:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I did hear it on TV while back, but I forgot where, so I will find some proof on the net. The Punk 21:19, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

No problem The Punk 21:20, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, here's one site with info. [4]

Here's another site. [5]

Oh, they may not be related after all. But I wish I remembered who said it on TV. But if I do find some better information I will pass it along to you.

Erik Knudsen Picture

Image:Eknudsen.jpg I'm just letting you know that I am removing this image from the article Eric Knudsen for a more updated one. If you want to put it back, drop me a line. Dragix 19:21, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. I don't see the point of having the old picture in right now. Maybe if the article gets bigger... Cheers Mad Jack 20:18, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

You too! I saw the Anti-Admin on your Userpage. And... I totally agree. Mind if I steal that? I'm just curious. What is YOUR reason for not wanting to be an Admin? Dragix 20:26, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Trevor Blumas

I have listed HUNDREDS of sources including IMDB sources, also an interview by Blumas himself. There are indeed sources, and now you are just vandalizing a page. Firegirl223 19:38, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

The Imdb that has a link to the book about the "scandal" which was removed by you. I currently linking the sites to wiki since apparently it is all created by me.Firegirl223

The title of the book, that and the subject matter is the only reason why i linked it. I assume since it is not finished and it's current status is unknown there is no reason to have it there. The fact that TREVOR HIMSELF admitted to taking legal action is all that's needed. Let's face it, he is a b-level actor and he does not capture headlines. Firegirl223 19:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Did you read the globe article, when his people said, "we are talking legal action against this person" or something to that effect. If it was a lie, then he would have said so by now.Firegirl223 19:53, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Very good source since Trevor Blumas is not a star. I am posting lots of sources so far i have four and i haven't even started. 19:58, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

So imdb is not a good source, even though it pre-approves all info before it is submitted, even though wikipedia doesn't.Firegirl223 20:03, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Well That's tacky! I assumed that IMDB is a great source. The Best source for actors.Firegirl223 20:06, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Well since trevor is like i said not huge, if he did an interview i highly doubt it would be noticed.Firegirl223 20:10, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Lorrie Morgan

Re Lorrie Morgan and her religion:

Smoking list - Morgan "Musical roots aren't all Lorrie Morgan and Sammy Kershaw have in common: Both are Catholic, Republican and heavy smokers", People Magazine , May 21, '01 ... smokingsides.com/asfs/M/Morgan.html - Similar pages

64.105.74.207 21:22, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Polish Americans

In the lists, I do not believe citing someone with three different backgrounds is a large problem if they have been listed on the unconfirmed page. If we confirm them and they are only of three different heritages, then surely that should be admissable. Michael 07:32, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

If "Polish American" describes someone of Polish ancestry, and something blatantly states that that person is of that ancestry, then it seems relevant to include it. Wikipedia defines a Polish American as "an American citizen of Polish descent." I can see where when categorizing a problem may be posed by an excess of categories, but in a list, that isn't a real problem, particularly when we have sources. Michael 07:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, on top of the source I used for Scarlett Johansson (which is used to define her as a Polish American on another site), I found these, too:

"Having been noticed for possessing fine skills and elegance that transcend her young age, Scarlett Johansson surely has risen to be one of Hollywood's most promising young actresses of the 21st century. Born on November 22, 1984 in New York City, USA, she is a Danish, Polish, and Jewish descendant for being the youngest daughter of Karsten and Melanie Johansson."

"Last year, the 21-year-old got the ninth place in a 100 Sexiest Women in the World poll made by British magazine FHM. She has Polish and Danish roots, but what makes her look gorgeous is her unique style." [6]

Michael 07:50, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, the source of this is obviously Scarlett, herself, if she has revealed her father to be from Denmark and her mother to be Jewish. These sites also reference her heritage, stating Danish and Polish. [7] [8]

Michael 07:59, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

If a site acknowledges her as being of Polish descent, that cannot not make her a Polish American, particularly if half of her ancestors are being referenced by such. A Google search comes up for 131,000 for "'scarlett johansson' polish" and 102,000 for "'scarlett johansson' jewish". I am certain the majority of these websites (including the more official ones) were not copying IMBD or our old pages. Most of the news-related ones do not do that if they are writing an article in pertinence to a person, particularly if they wish to maintain credibility. Michael 08:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, some of the sources did say things to the effect of: "Scarlett is of Polish and Danish descent," or, "Scarlett is of Polish, Jewish, and Danish descent." Michael 08:17, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Copyright of the picture of Michelle Pfeiffer

Do you know who have the copyright of the picture of Michelle Pfeiffer. I want use it for the german wikipedia. Thanks--FredericII 15:53, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Mandy Moore

Although it was originally submitted by Parys, it appears to not be a hoax. See [9] (you have to register to view the magazine scans) Mad Jack 20:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I've just had a look at that scan - it states that 'Slummin' in Paradise' is 'out now' (article written in February '06). If the magazine has managed to get that basic fact wrong, I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in it. If SiP was a genuine album due for release any time soon, the 'net would be buzzing - or at least feature more substantial fan discussions than rumours that appear to be sourced from Wikipedia itself. I'd personally wait until something concrete is announced about a new album before putting anything into the Mandy Moore article. --Kurt Shaped Box 21:02, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Image:Ewood.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded, Image:Ewood.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. ˉˉ^anetode╞┬╡ 05:17, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

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abdelkweli

dude lyone her dad is jewish but mom is of french descent. Abdelkweli 15:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

yo why did you fuck up my americans of french descent page? you destroyed it... The people who need confirmation, can't you read their last name? you dont have the right to butcher an article like this it's vandalism. Abdelkweli 16:01, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

for stephen colbert, family is from ireland and if you read everything it's from normandy and where is normady? FRANCE!! damn please revert your vandalism cuz you killed the article. This is pure vandalism. Abdelkweli 16:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

and for your information, cajuns are americans of french descent. Americans of french descent include cajuns, acadians, louisianans, some quebecois and brunswiker. So it's pointless to move someone to cajuns as you remove it from americans of french descent. If someone is cajun then he is also american of french descent. I'm doind a thesis at NYU on french heritage bro so please ask me before editing. Just like you it seems, i'm fascinated by these american heritage. And I'm half french, half jewish just like Lyone. Abdelkweli 16:10, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Re:protection

Non-admins cannot semi-protect pages. :) -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 05:37, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

How can they...?

How can people not be "x-Americans" if one of their parents is fully of that descent? You have acknowledged that is one of the criterion for listing people as such. In several discussions, you have stated we may define someone as an "x-American" if they have at least one parent who is a particular ancestry. How can you then question that, saying it doesn't call them an "x-American" when you said that if at least one of their parents must be of that descent, then they are, "or" they must show a strong identity to that heritage (if they are less than half)? Michael 05:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

But you, yourself, have stated in several discussions that if someone has a parent that is of one ethnicity, that we may include those. Otherwise, we would need proof of a strong identification with that ethnicity. The definition of a Polish American, for example, as presented, reflects on a fact-whether someone is of Polish descent. To say that its only connotation is to reflect upon people who feel Polish or have been brought up in a very traditional Polish family is to dismiss what is fact and rely strictly on what one feels. A female lawyer may be an attorney who happens to be a woman, but are you suggesting that unless she directly states, "I am a woman lawyer," that that does not qualify as a category in which she could be places. What is a fact is a fact. Michael 05:58, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

So you're saying now that even if someone has been raised by a family with a strong sense of that ethnicity, it is irrelevant if they do not elaborate to say, "I am X-American," or "I am x?" Michael 06:13, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

If someone "comes from a Polish-American family," then how can it be wrong to define a parent as something, saying their child is not (as you say in the Rachael Ray discussion)? Michael 06:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

More on the Polish-Americans

I am not Polish, and I am not interested in citing a page that is under such scrutiny. I have a job, a family, friends and I have a life, but I like to occasionally check these lists. As I said before if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's a duck - I think Wikipedia policy is flawed, the internet is filled with flawed and or limited information. You can't find or cite most people therefore those lists will never be accurate or complete, so why be so over the top? This is not Encyclopedia Brittanica, its the people's encyclopedia and it will not be perfect but that what it's here for - for debate, for a conversation, but you appear to prefer Martial law and being the one to bring down the axe. That's not how the real world operates, you'll figure that out one day. --IsisTheQueen 07:46, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

• I am not personally attacking you because you are a teenager. Though I must say, teenagers have a great deal less life experience to reflect on and often act in accordance with that, i.e. your actions/language: impulsive removal of data, lack of communication, sense of infallibility are usually indicative of someone who is less mature - just an observation not an attack. You may have good technical skills but your youth is obvious. I would hope that you would reflect on the way you are doing things and to see that it is not good practice and will not win you any allies, which I think is detrimental to you. But you do what you gotta do. Take Care - --IsisTheQueen 08:03, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Jack, we already discussed this before, the only way the lists can have any sort of point to them and comply with Wikipedia policies is to use the naming I used for the Irish list. Regards Arniep 10:38, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Irish Americans

Hi, I had not seen your proposal on the Irish list as I gave up monitoring my 4000 watchlist pages. What is unencyclopedic is to keep lists that use subjective criteria for inclusion. It is unreasonable to only include people who just happen to have been identified by so and so as Irish American (often not actually backing it up with real genealogical information) but not include people whose biographies show that they have Irish forebears and include their actual names and birthdates. I would be happy to keep the list as just xxx Americans as long as we can agree that we are not going to use subjective criteria on who to include. Arniep 13:42, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Jack, we discussed this before. I would argue that the term Irish American in itself is ambiguous and subjective and therefore it is unencyclopedic to make a list of xxx Americans as it is usually not backed up by reliable sources. Arniep 14:01, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Jack, I really don't understand why you are being so unreasonable. If an interview or biography of a person says that their mother was Irish, are you saying you would not include them on a list of Irish Americans unless someone (even an unreliable source!) describes that person as Irish American? Arniep 14:11, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Jack, Grace Note despises these ethnicity lists so I don't really know why you are listening to him as he has no interest in keeping them whatsoever. It is a slightly different situation on the Jewish list as Jewish doesn't generally mean having a distant Jewish ancestor, whereas xxx American can mean that in many cases. Therefore we can say that the phrase Irish American has been used by a large body of people to refer to Americans of Irish descent, therefore including people of Irish descent on a list of Irish Americans is merely deductive reasoning not original research. Arniep 14:23, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, Jack, GraceNote is not right at all, I shall post Wernhers comment from the pump:

I must say I firmly agree with Jack O on this one. Grace Note's statements

1. Deciding that having X ancestry or Y upbringing or Z parents makes you a foo is original research[.]

2. As far as having "Lists of people with foo descent", this is fine, but must be restricted to those people who are described as having foo descent in the sources. You may not interpret other wordings as meaning that they have foo descent, any more than you can interpret them as meaning they are foos.

strikes me as implying that an American who is listed with, say, Norwegian parents, is not to be categorized as a Norwegian-American unless there is another source using the exact wording "Norwegian-American" about that person. Does WP policy actually forbid such very trivial deductive reasoning on the pretense that it is to be considered "original research"? I can't say that I reach such a conclusion from looking at WP:NOR's section "What is excluded?". I hope I have misunderstood this part of the discussion, since I can't honestly see what to discuss here. --Wernher 04:00, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

i.e. it is deductive reasoning NOT original research

Arniep 14:30, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but you (and GraceNote) are misinterpreting the policy. It is not original research but deductive reasoning. Arniep 14:36, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Jack I want the lists to be accurate. To allow people to be included just because someone who we have no idea whether they are a reliable source or not makes some vague statement about Irishness but not allow people to be included on whom we have concrete facts such as names, dates and places is just ridiculous. As Wernher said, making the connection that someone has a Norwegian parent is a Norweigan American is not original research as xxx American has historically been used to describe Americans of xxx descent. Arniep 14:48, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

How am I allowing subjectivity to enter the article? I am merely saying as Wernher said, that the connection between descent and xxx American is deductive reasoning not original research as the term xxx American has been used by a large number of people to describe people of xxx descent. Arniep 14:55, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, I suppose I have argued against having to have descent in the title as it is merely deductive reasoning not original research. It seems clear that the term xxx American is poorly defined, therefore having lists with that title imo is problematic, but I will accept the xxx American titles, but I will not accept excluding people who have not been specifically referred to as xxx American as it is clearly a nonsense to ignore the common usage of the term meaning descent. Arniep 15:01, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Jack, sorry OR does not apply here. Saying a person who has a Norwegian parent is of Norwegian descent is not original research. As Norwegian American is commonly used to describe people of Norwegian descent, it is not original research to put that person in a list of Norwegian Americans. You have been completely misled by the argument on the British Jews list (which I actually agreed with) in that some people were including people of distant Jewish descent, which clearly isn't the normal usage of Jew, whereas the normal usage of xxx American is a person of xxx descent, often distant descent. Arniep 15:06, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Accept what? Please quote the exact passage from the original research page that you think applies here and I will explain why it does not apply. If you cannot or won't do that I will start reverting your changes. Arniep 15:09, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Jack, please try and be civil, thanks. Reading that example, all is needed is a source that says Irish Americans commonly refer to Americans of Irish descent (there are many, Encarta for example). Arniep 15:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)