User talk:Guy Harris/Archives/2023/02

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access-date

I think that the documentation regarding access date is a bit muddy. Since the original URL is not verifiable, and access-date codifies the most recent date that the URL was verifiable, I would expect that once the original is supplanted by the archive url, then it would point to when the archive url was verified, which was today. But again, it's a grey area. I found a different resource that suggests that access-date is not even required in this instance; instead, simply 'date=' suffices: "Where an archived resource notes its original publication date, use date= in place of |access-date=>. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Using_the_Wayback_Machine, 'Working with cite templates'. cheers. anastrophe, an editor he is. 02:52, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

@Anastrophe: I think that the documentation regarding access date is clear, with no muddiness whatsoever. It says:

• url: URL of an online location where the text of the publication named by title can be found. Cannot be used if title is wikilinked. If applicable, the link may point to the specific page(s) referenced. Remove tracking parameters from URLs, e.g. #ixzz2rBr3aO94 or ?utm_source=google&utm_medium=...&utm_term=...&utm_campaign=.... For linking to pages in PDF files or in Google Books, see WP:PAGELINKS. Do not link to any commercial booksellers, such as Amazon; use |isbn= or |oclc= to provide neutral search links for books. Invalid URLs, including those containing spaces, will result in an error message.
  • access-date: Full date when the content pointed to by url was last verified to support the text in the article; do not wikilink; requires url; use the same format as other access and archive dates in the citations. Not required for linked documents that do not change. For example, access-date is required for online sources, such as personal websites, that do not have a publication date; see WP:CITEWEB. Access dates are not required for links to published research papers or published books. Note that access-date is the date that the URL was found to be working and to support the text being cited. See "Automatic date formatting" above for details about interaction with {{use dmy dates}} and {{use mdy dates}}. Can be hidden or styled by registered editors. Alias: accessdate.

url is boldfaced in "Full date when the content pointed to by url was last verified to support the text in the article", indicating that it refers to the url parameter, not the archive-url parameter. That content can't be verified if it's not on line any more. You can look at what archive-url points to, but that's not verifying the content pointed to by url unless it was archived on the same day, so you can be sure that the archive site archived what the person who added the reference and access date saw.

As for verifying the data on the archive site, at least on the Wayback Machine and probably on other sites, if the original page had a publication date, that might render the access date unnecessary and, if it didn't, the archive date suffices to indicate the time when the archiving site saw that version of the page. As such, I see zero reason to bother noting the date when somebody read the archived page. Guy Harris (talk) 07:14, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

References

Clarification of term MVS

While the term MVS does not appear in the names OS/390 and z/OS, they both have a huge component called MVS and manuals for other components refer to it as such. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 17:07, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

GOFF

"Generalized Object File format (GOFF)" is correct; COFF was a typo. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 17:30, 27 February 2023 (UTC)