User talk:Graphophile

Dunun edit

Hi, why the category addition for "Battle drums" on the Dunun page? Dunun have never been for that. Do you have a reference that would support this?

MichiHenning (talk) 23:28, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Michi !

Yes of course, this reference is ... WikiPédia !!! With three elements :

1. Dunun is of the older familly junjung "royal war drum".

2. If you "travel" through the battle drums articles you will see that most of them share 1. Cylindrical shape 2. Proportion between diameter and height. 3. Transportability by a walking man

Dunun has these caracteristics.

3. Shall we make "as if" dunum was not a battle drum.

As no "origines" drum was created to play a "secular" role, what holly role for dunun ?

Medecine drum ? No : too heavy

Ritual feast drum ? No : this is the role of the djembe kind of drum. You notice that the djembe kind of drums have "special" shape with "cones" = symbol of womb, fertility, etc.

Summary : so we have :

- positive reason = 1. dunum is of junjung family 2. shape and proportions

- complementary reason : 3. it's not a medecine drum, nor ritual feast drum

I hope I made it clear for you.

Generally speaking, articles about drums were written by musicologists or so.

The roots, the origin of drums is documented in a very variable way.

Every article about a drum should have a title "Roots & origins" written by a paleo-anthropologist or so.

There must be also confidence by the reader. Knowing what happened 1 million years ago- when some drums were created - is "difficult".

References are :

- more recent written documents - 2500 years.

- older drawings

- comparison of shape, decoration, signs

- traces of the paleolithic age in actual "tribes" of hunters

- traces in ritual practices

Best. Graphophile (talk) 16:05, 24 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm… I was looking for a reliable secondary source. Wikipedia can't rely on itself for source material. I've been playing djembe and dunun for 13 years now, I'm actively studying these instruments, I've spent months in Africa learning from masters there, and I've read dozens of books, Ph.D. thesis, and scholarly articles on the topic. Not once have I come across the dunun as a war drum. As best as I know, the Malinke have never used dunun as a war drum.

We need a reliable secondary source for this. In the absence of that, I'd rather remove the categorisation because I strongly believe it to be incorrect.

MichiHenning (talk) 00:54, 27 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Michi !

I removed the category. I am sure it will come back someday.

I can cite many subjects where, for ages, a point was missed by researchers and then was put in light by new look on the matter.

The main reason is that disciplines are - from Auguste Comte onward - "narrow" = researchers take one dimension and not the whole matter.

May I ask you : "Is one of the documents you studied on dunun written by a paléoanthropologist" or so ?"

Thank in advance for your reply.

Best. Graphophile (talk) 04:21, 27 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, none of them were by a paléoanthropologist :) But there is plenty of material by musicologists. (Check out Rainer Polak, who is one of the authorities on the subject.)

Thanks for removing the category for the time being! If you do find a reliable reference, please let me know and feel free to add the category back.

MichiHenning (talk) 10:10, 27 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fine ! Graphophile (talk) 10:12, 27 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]