User talk:Grapeman

Welcome!

Hello, Grapeman, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! — Dismas|^(talk) 21:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikify tag

Please don't remove the {{wikify}} tag from the Fraser Valley Distance Education School (FVDES) article again until it has been appropriately wikified. The tag was put there for good reason as there aren't any links in the article. You can learn more about how to format the article in the above links. If you have any questions, I'll be happy to try and answer them. Just leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 21:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I see that you've linked some of the words now. If you feel that there are enough links to other articles, you're free to take the notice down. It doesn't have to stay there for the rest of time. :-) I'd have taken it off myself but I thought you might get a sense of satisfaction with improving the article you wrote and would want to remove it yourself. Dismas|^(talk) 01:10, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Internal link title

If I'm reading your question right, the thing I think you're looking for is the pipe character. Say I want to link the words "coolest guy in the universe" to Bill Nye. I would make the link look like this: [[Bill Nye|coolest guy in the universe]]. That would produce this: coolest guy in the universe. The pipe, which can be found on U.S. keyboards above the Enter key and just below the Backspace key. If that's not what you were looking for, let me know and I'll try again. Dismas|^(talk) 01:05, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Aha! That does the trick. Thank you for all of your help.

Grapeman 02:35, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome, Dismas|^(talk) 02:42, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How to create a wikipedia article

Hi,

Hope you don't get disappointed by the proposed deletion of How to create a wikipedia article. I know that Wikipedia is very technical and a bit unfriendly for newcomers, but the trouble is: Will a newcomer type in the exact page name of this article to refer to it? Probably not, and more probably it would be a suggested page by users like us or officially by Wikipedia. So it really shouldn't matter whether this is on Wikipedia or on some other place, like your User namespace (hope that by now you understand what this means). At Esperanza, we are also discussing a similar issue, which is New User Policy Training. Its about how we should phrase the welcome message to new users so that they get to know most about Wikipedia in least amount of time. Please follow up the discussion and give your suggestions. If you want, you can create your personalized welcome message with a link to this article in your User namespace. Regards, -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 18:45, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, I created the article on your User Namespace in case the original gets deleted. -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 18:49, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you!

Hi Ambuj

Thank you for your kind response. Frankly, this whole exercise has been rather disappointing. Since I already inhabit work spaces (at a college and an online school) that protect their dominions with intentional and impenetrable geekspeak, I was disappointed to see the same thing going on in Wikipedia. My point about meaningless jargon was met by... more jargon! It seems some of the Wiki mavens don't understand the irony of their responses (... or maybe they do :-0). I'm sure they will get into a huff over this, but that's sincerely how I see things.

I do indeed think Wikipedia is overly technical and is very unfriendly to newcomers (I find the definition of "newbie test" in the glossary unnecessary and condescending). I read about the concern for losing regular contributors, but I'd be just as worried about repelling potential recruits to the cause (like me). [Later, I will check out your Esperanza group in more detail; it looks interesting.]

All of the pages that have been mentioned to me contribute something to the start up process, to be sure, but there remains no central, one-stop-shop-page for newcomers. Worse yet, most of these pages use phrases that are jargonized (and therefore useless for a first timer). Tech types never fail to misunderstand the essential axiom of technical instruction for newcomers: less is best, and more shuts them down. Moreover, criticism from the mavens is limited to invoking jargon terms, but with no explanations and (much worse) no alternatives.

As for Will a newcomer type in the exact page name of this article to refer to it?, a few things come to mind. Most newcomers will probably use the search function like a Google or bullion search (and type in a question), so maybe Wiki should create a series of possible redirects to a page that answers the general question of how to create a wikipedia article. That's precisely what I did (ie typed in a question), and was amazed to find nothing. So, yes, I think they will type in the exact name, but in the form of a question or phrase. In fact, I later created a number of redirects for my instructional page, and it seemed to make the page easy to find within Wiki. In other words, if I can anticipate how regular people might use the search function, then maybe Wiki can and should, too.

Well, anyway, thanks for your help.

Cheers, Grapeman 19:58, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi

I think it's a bad idea to create redirects to your user space from the main article space. We don't even redirect to the main help pages from the article space. It is fine to have articles in your user space that might be helpful, but in general articles space should not redirect to user space. If you want to write helpful articles on how to make articles, maybe you could look at the existing help articles and improve them. DJ Clayworth 21:09, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Even if I edited all the relevant pages (!) for geekspeak, a big problem would remain: there are too many separate pages to begin with. This fragmented organizational structure wouldn't pass the most basic instructional design course. But all I see is inertia, so... whatever. Grapeman 00:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your Signature

Hi,

I think you may also want to improve your signature so that it directly links to your talk page also. Its pretty simple. Go to My Preferences, and copy the text below to your Nickname. Also, don't forget to mark it as raw. It should make your signature on the lines most of us have, including me.

-[[User:Grapeman|Grapeman]] ([[User_talk:Grapeman|talk]])

-Ambuj Saxena (talk) 10:08, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]