User talk:Goxy63

Image gallery on Operation Halyard and BRD

G'day. I see you have reverted my removal of the gallery of images about DM at Operation Halyard. Please read WP:IMAGES to understand why I removed them. Please also read WP:BRD, as the expected response when your bold edit is reverted is to start a discussion of the matter on the talk page of the article concerned, not to edit-war. Edit-warring never works, as eventually someone else will revert your edit, and you will then not have consensus for it. At that point, someone is likely to report you to the admins, and you are likely to get blocked from editing. In this specific case, a gallery really isn't appropriate to get your message across, text is much better. It would be better to have a image of DM at the point in the text when he is first mentioned, then one of the Legion of Merit when that is mentioned. The wanted poster is from much earlier in the war and isn't really relevant to that article. Relevance is important when adding images to articles. That is what it says in the policy. Thanks, Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 22:27, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with added images which are related to most important person in "Operation Halyard" (on the ground). Added photos are informational and useful for people who don't know much about general Mihajlovic. Can you please elaborate reason for removing ALL images which I added? Images aligned on right side which I added are placed in place where on left side there is a mention about general Mihajlovic. Image of bomber is on first place as it was and images below are added and all are related to the FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT man in whole operation! I don't see this as an policy issue, its more like your disliking of images "issue".

Ok agreed, there is no need for so many images, just edited and only two images are left, image of general Draza Mihajlovich who was first and most responsible man in whole operation, and second image which shows "Legion of Merit" which was given by Harry Truman to Draza Mihajlovic mostly for his role in very same operation. Images are informational and are very much related to this article, images are on proper place, they don't take much space and they make whole article more interesting. I do hope now its ok for you. Thanks

ps

Its strange that there is not even one image of first man in this operation. Those +400 airmen were saved thanks to general Mihajlovic, without him operation "Halyard" would not be possible.

I have refactored your response into a single thread. I have also moved the two uncaptioned images out into individual images with captions at appropriate parts of the text. Enjoy editing. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 23:45, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Its more than fine now. Thanks. As I understand you have some interest in these things, will recommend this book for you....

http://www.amazon.com/The-Forgotten-500-Greatest-Mission/dp/0451224957
This can give you better picture about happenings as its written from one of pilots who was downed and rescued by Draza Mihajlovic men, by Chetniks. You will see how communist propaganda is still present even in western history as Tito was afraid of what Draza Mihajlovic might do after war....that is why Tito executed Draza Mihajlovic and pushed other countries including USA to accept his version of history....

Nikola Tesla

Your edit [1] is factually wrong as you are trying to point out that Smiljan was outside Croatia at Tesla's time. See this sources [2] You should revert it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.164.239.52 (talk) 09:18, 26 July 2016 (UTC) It is not wrong, Tesla was not Born in Croatia, in that time that was Austrian empire not Croatia and that is a fact

You are wrong. Did you see the sources? 89.164.239.52 (talk) 12:16, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Oh, sry , I didn't put a correct link to the sources. Here they are [3]. I know what the media in Serbia are pushing , but those sources are very clear. If you think they are wrong you are free to find stronger sources, although I don't see what would be stronger than kings proclamation and Tesla's own word. If you are objective you would accept those sources or tried to objectively dispute them. If not, you are free to leave your edit and ignore me. I'm more happy that those sources are stated and undisputed in talk page. If you are more happy with the article that states something that is wrong, then there's nothing to discuss. So if you are willing to objectively discuss, then I am too, if not you are free to add more incorrect info (for instance that Tesla's father was Serbian orthodox priest and such, no one will revert you although it was already established on talk page that he was not Serbian orthodox priest, since that article is a fort for pro-Serbian editors.)89.164.239.52 (talk) 12:29, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Tesla is Born in Austro-Hungarian empire not in Croatia, Croatia was not a state in that time and therefore he could not be born in Croatia, maybe you should check Tesla's birth certificate and his passport when he arrived to USA. This "sources" you present are not relevant. Tesla nationality is Serbian one by his mother and also his father, he was not even born in Croatia but in village of Smiljan (today Croatia, in that time Austria). I dont have idea what you are talking about when you say "media in Serbia are pushing... can you elaborate what precisely and if so what this has to do with anything here as I am stating pure facts which are more than easy to see in various sources (even Tesla's own words). Link 1 http://www.nikolateslamuseum.org/web/page.php?p=11&s=83&l=en

Croatia was then a part of Austrian Empire, the fact that it wasn't an independent country does not negate the fact that Tesla was born there. I don't see what else you need when you have Tesla's statement that he was born in Croatia. Your sources shed no light on the question of Tesla's birthplace. In fact, the second one is trying to assert that he was not born in Croatia, which is false. Those are not relevant sources, let alone stronger than mine. Do you really think that you can disprove the sources that I had provided? You don't seem to understand that a source which says "born in Austrian empire (today Croatia) is in no conflict with " born in Croatia. If you feel that tesla wasn't born in Croatia, why didn't you edit the article to say so? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.164.239.52 (talk) 22:02, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

I just want to be clear since you seem to acknowledge the fact that Tesla was born in Croatian Military Frontier. Croatian Military Frontier was along with kingdom of Croatia a single land. I gave you the source to kings proclamation. Tesla has himself said that he was born in Croatia and that is not relevant to you? Well, it seems to me that you aren't objective. Just for your info, there are no sources that would confirm Tesla was Serbian. His ethnicity is unknown. I'm objective and I would accept a valid source, bu so far I've seen none. Of course that a lot of people in Serbia will say that he was Serb, in Croatia a Croat, and so on. But there are no documents or Tesla's statement to prove either side. I dont see a point for this discussion as it is well known that Tesla had no Croatian citizenship nor he was born in Croatia, in the time of his birth and his departure to USA that was Austria empire. I am not saying that Croatian people did not exist, simply that was not a country he left or a country where he was born. I pointed you to see few firm facts, his birth certificate and his passport but you obvioulsy did not do that.

Tesla ethnicity is well known and well documented, his father was a Serbian orthodox priest and his mother was also Serbian woman also from priest family, in fact this is how they met at first place before Tesla was born. Seems to me that you are having problem with these facts. Tesla never stated in his life that he is Croat and how could he when he was not even born in Croatia (he was only mentioning homeland as place where he was born, not Croatia), and had no Croatian origin, but he stated that he is proud on his countryman Serbs like when he came to visit Belgrade and stated among other things (note that these words are documented) Quote: "There is something within me that might be illusion as it is often case with young delighted people, but if I would be fortunate to achieve some of my ideals, it would be on the behalf of the whole of humanity. If those hopes would become fulfilled, the most exiting thought would be that it is a deed of a Serb. Long live Serbdom!..." End of quote. Also Tesla's dying wish was that song "There far away is Serbia" is played on his funeral. I am speaking about facts and documents, nothing else! Good luck.

Yet, he himself had said: "I was born in Croatia". That's quite enough for me, but there's also the kings proclamation from 1850. His birth certificate nor his passport are useful in this case. You are free to provide quotes that you think substantiate your claim. I don't see them in those documents. Note that if some document says that he was born in Austrian Empire , it is not in conflict with the claim that he was born in Croatia as Croatia was a part of Austrian Empire. It just isn't specific enough. Nothing about Tesla is well known, or you would have already put forward indisputable documents. Tesla's father was an orthodox priest, but he didn't belong to Serbian Orthodox Church. That's what the article says. You are free to change it. I can not revert you, and i doubt that other Serbian editors who think much like you will. The article also says that he was born in Croatia "Austrian Empire (modern-day Croatia)" , you are also free to change that. But you better have sources.

If that quote is correct and if Tesla had said that, I would gladly accept that his ethnicity is Serbian. Unfortunately, I've done some research, and I found out that this quote is probably the product of later times. Tell me, who has recorded that words? If some Serbian newspapers, can we be sure that wasn't made up? If you were objective and convinced this quote is true, you would find the source. Unlike you I don't believe everything that I'm being told, so I went to find some contemporary sources. Here.

1. Serbian "Srpske Novine" from 21st of May 1892 report on Tesla's visit to Belgrade. here

On Wednesday, 20th this month, at 11 O'clock in the evening, a famous electrician Mr. Nikola Tesla Serb has arrived in Belgrade, a citizen of free America, intellectual of world class whose name today interests all educated world. On the train station, the beloved guest was greeted by the president of Belgrade municipality, greeting committee members, professors, high school youth and a lot of citizens and Belgrade public that had gathered together to greet and see their brother, who gained a famous name in far world with his scientific work. When Mr. Tesla had stepped out of the train in his ordinary travelling suit, he was greeted with loud cheers. When he has greeted with the municipality president, committee members and professors, he heeded town and stayed in Imperijal inn. On Thursday, 21st of this month, in the morning Mr. Tesla had met minister of education and church affairs. Afterwards, along with the minister, he left to the court to audience with His Majesty the King which lasted almost an hour after which he met the Kings regent Mr. Jovan Ristic and in the noon he had returned to his apartment accompanied by the minister of education. In the afternoon Mr. Tesla has visited the museum and the cabinets in the Great School. Exactly in 4 O’clock he had appeared in the hall of the Great School, where he was met by the high school youth with tumultuous cheers: “Long live! Welcome!” After a few words by the rector who had introduced him, he had thanked with the long beautiful speech, In which he gave expression to his excitement and joy he feels seeing he was welcomed s such enthusiasm among his brothers Serbs. His speech was interrupted with enthusiastic and tumultuous cheers. After his visit to the Great School, Mr. Tesla, accompanied by the professors and the committee members went to the Kalmegdan Park where he has spent a short time.In the evening a banquet In Smutekovac was given in his honor, on which, after all insistence by this unusually dear guest that the friendly reception is given much less form, had come up to 100 selected and eminent citizens and representatives of various companies. The first toast was given by the municipality president to His Majesty The King wishing the God gives him a long life for the fortune of the country and the nation and for the benefit of the science to which he had given special attention, by welcoming unusually friendly our dear guest. After this toast, a lot of other wonderful and beautiful toasts were given so this evening was one enthusiastic ovation to one great Serb, which had written the Serbian name with the golden letters in the field of the greatest inventors of this century… Mr. Alkovic, a professor at the Great School gave the first toast to Mr. Tesla. In a beautiful speech he had said, among other, that he rejoice in the name of the biggest educational institute in Serbia, because his Serbian name had acquired such esteem in the scientific world and that all Serbs can be proud of him. Mr. Tesla had thanked the toast and in his beautiful speech said that his hearth will always beat, over the Atlantic Ocean, for Serbdom and his future even in the hours when his thoughts will carry him in the fields of electric waves. Answer by Mr. Tesla was welcomed with tumultuous and long cheers: ”Long live!”. Mr. Boza Stanojevic had said in a lovely speech, in the way understandable to the wider audience, what are Mr. Tesla’s accomplishments in the electronics and gave a toast to the long life of this great man. Afterwards our esteemed senior Zmaj had stood up and with the shaken voice read his poem: “Greeting to Nikola Tesla upon his arrival in Belgrade”. Mr. Tesla was unusually moved the words of Mr. Zmaj, as they did to all present, so he had kissed his favorite poet on the hand…It has echoed loudly: “Long live!”. On this poet Mr. Tesla had answered by an unusually moved voice and a beautiful speech, mentioning, that a joy he felt in the hours when he in the hard struggle with the poverty he had beaten his head on the findings and came to success, to fulfillment of his idea – he fells now after these words by his favorite poet and in this great Serbian gathering. There were other toasts. Mr. Tasa Bogdanovic had given a toast in the name of his fellow countrymen from Lika, Mr. Andra Borcevic in the name of the “St. Sava society”, g. Milasinovic in the name of Serbian engineers, Mr. Stamenkovic in the name of the merchants, Mr. Boks Jovanovic in the name of pharmacist. Mr. Tesla had thanked for the third time and stressed that he was happy to attend this Serbian gathering and that his thought will always be with Serbdom. Giga Gersic and Mr. Ducic had also spoken. In a beautiful speech, Mr. Gersic had said how much pride it is to the Serbian tribe to have one Tesla, who proves, that in cultural and physical struggle it can compete with other nations. The joy had lasted to half past midnight when the guest stood up and gave farewell to all present, had left accompanied with the tumultuous “Long live!”, “Pleasant journey!”. Findings by Mr. Tesla in the electronic field are the following: He had found a way (and that is his secret) by which the electric waves can multiply in one second to a huge, almost infinite number, which was not possible up to now. On that finding many other consequences rest upon. For example, that electric waves are, what we call heat, light, electricity, magnetism. In another words – light, magnetism, heat and electricity are nothing else than electric waves in higher or lower number, upon which they depend and differently affect the man (burn him, kill him, or do nothing to him). Mr. Tesla had proven that mathematically correct. He hopes that with his findings he will be able to conduct the electric current where he pleases without any conductors. With his finding he is making electric currents and giving them different directions, and in their middle point he levitates heavy objects without any material support, etc. Generally speaking, the finding by Mr. Tesla will have huge practical use, not counting that a whole shift in science was made by it. Mr. Tesla is unusually likable and striking appearance. Tall, slim, dark, pale-faced, conceived, dreamy eyes below his wide forehead with fine face lines. Even on the first sight he draws observer’s attention. He speaks light, with excellent Serbian language from his proud Lika, in spite that he had spent 15 years far from his home and people. He is unusually humble, almost shy. Even on the first sight one see that he had spent his time in thoughts far away from the worlds glow and haste.

Now tell me. How is it possible that Serbian newspapers from that day which heavily emphasize that Tesla is a Serb miss out to mention the quote you posted? Where is the source for that quote then? I bet that you don't know but you will claim that it's well known fact. 141.138.18.95 (talk) 09:43, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

What I say are not my claims, those are facts, he was not born in Croatia, he was born in place which is today Croatia, he was not a Croat as his parents were Serbs which is also very well documented. Where and when Tesla stated that he is Croat, or that he is born in Croatia? Austro Hungarian empire 1914 Here you can also see where Serbs were living and they are not present there today as they were expelled from area by Croats and Austrians in 3 turns (1914, 1941, 1990). How can you claim he was born in Croatia, there was no such country at the time nor kingdom, this was simply Austrian empire. Maybe you should learn and inform yourself bit more about history facts. Also you should inform yourself what has happened to all Tesla relatives and descendants, in 1990's church where Tesla's father was serving was destroyed by Croatian army. Also house where Tesla was living was blown up by explosives again by Croatian army. On these links you can access to original documents, you can visit Tesla's museum and see those by your own eyes. Link1 Link2 Part of Teslas speach in Belgrade while he was visiting students and professors in Belgrade university, this is one of his speach he had sevaral those few days while he was in Belgrade.

Ja sam, kao što vidite i čujete ostao Srbin i preko mora, gde se ispitivanjima bavim. To isto treba da budete i vi i da svojim znanjem i radom podižete slavu Srpstva u svetu.

Translation: "As you can see I remained Serb overseas where I do my researches. You should do same with your knowledge in order to rise up glory of Serbs and Serbia in the world..."

So as I can see you have problems with facts, facts that are acknowledged even by official Croatia, that Tesla nationality is Serbian one. There is so much evidence that this is simply not even questionable so I dont see a point for this discussion. Unless you don't have some evidence that Tesla is Croat, or that he even stated that he is born in Croatia...or anything that you claim here, please do provide valid links and sources. Have a nice day.

Here again: Nikola Tesla: "I was born in Croatia" [4]. No Croatian kingdom at that time? Here you go:[5]. Thank you for the documents, but which document disproves any of my claims? A quote if you would. Where's the source for that supposed quote by Tesla? I gave you the article by Serbian newspapers of that day. No trace of that quote. I don't claim that Tesla is a Croat. You are the one that claims that he's a Serb with made up quote. I claim that his ethnicity is unknown to known sources. If you have any document , please put it forward by quoting the relevant part. Don't put up made up quotes. 89.164.162.75 (talk) 18:41, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Area of today Croatia was Austrio-Hungarian empire, that was name of the empire under which Tesla was born therefore his passport when he left his homeland was Austrian one not Croatian one. It would be called Austro-Hungarian-Croatian empire (I guess) but unfortunately this is not the case. Kingdom of which you speak was not existing otherwise he would have Croatian passport which he never had from obvious reasons. Tesla's ethnicity is undisputed, it is known that he had Serbian origin and that is questionable just for some Croat nationalists and fascists, or such. Part of Tesla's speach in Belgrade while he was visiting students and professors in Belgrade university:

Ja sam, kao što vidite i čujete ostao Srbin i preko mora, gde se ispitivanjima bavim. To isto treba da budete i vi i da svojim znanjem i radom podižete slavu Srpstva u svetu.

Translation: "As you can see I remained Serb overseas where I do my researches. You should do same with your knowledge in order to rise up glory of Serbs and Serbia in the world..." This was noted even in foreign news papers, Tesla's descendants confirmed that just the same as they will confirm any time that Tesla was Serb. For this there was countless witnesses who in future wrote and confirmed these words. If you are not claiming that Tesla is Croat please explain how he is not Serb as that is obviously problem for you. Man was not born in Croatia nor he was Croat these are firm facts which nobody can deny. He was simply born in area where today Croatia is and that is what I wrote on that wikipedia page, that is what I imputed and that is what you have problem with. ps can you show me authentic copy of this text you mentioned above?

So you are now denying Kingdom_of_Croatia_(Habsburg) had existed? Ridiculous. You even go so far to deny Tesla's own words. Then you go copy pasting a made up quote without any source. Which papers had recorded the statement that you had posted? I gave you a Serbian newspapers of that day with no trace of that statement. For the last time. I don't claim he is a croat. I'm not biased either way, but the fact stands. No document exists that would resolve this question. Otherwise you would post it, instead of this made up quote.

Yeah, I have problem with you implying that Tesla was not born in Croatia. He himself had said so and you can't deny it. As for your made up claim that Croatia didn't exist, here's what the king says:"After many pleas from Jelecic, in 1850 the King's proclamation, which was signed by all 8 Austrian ministers, was finally announced...For Military Frontier, the King decided that it will remain within its present territory. However, it will with, Croatia and Slavonia, constitute a single land with disaggregated provincial and military administration, and representation.". You can't disprove these sources. You can insert wrong facts to the article, but you can't hide the fact that Tesla had said that he was born in Croatia. Those sources are on the talk page for everyone to see. Along with the king's proclamation that says Military Frontier is a part of Croatia. 89.164.162.75 (talk) 20:32, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes I can show you the authentic source for the Tribute to King Alexander. This is a letter that Tesla has himself written and sent to New York Times. It was published on Oct. 21, 1934. That's during Tesla's lifetime, and the letter was written by Tesla himself. There's no reason to doubt it, since Tesla had not come forward by claiming that New York Times had faked this. New York Times has an online archive. I've given you the date, you won't have problem finding it.89.164.162.75 (talk) 20:39, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Croatia at the time was not a state, he could not be born in Croatia and he never stated that. What Tesla's own words? His words? You are saying that you don't claim that he is Croat, you dont have to claim or disagree about his nationality as this is very well known fact that he is Serbian by his mother and father. (not just one parent) Military frontier or however you call it is not a state, nor a kingdom...dont try to redirect conversation towards something else...there is no need for that as it is obvious fact that Croatia was not a independent country or country at all and that is why Tesla left area of TODAY Croatia with Austrian passport. As for that text "Tribute to King Alexander" I am saying that he never stated that he felt as Croat or that he was born in Croatia, there is no such evidence known to me so please show me credible link where we can see original text, show me link to text of "New York Times". PS So called "Kingdom of Croatia" is simply a name of one area under foreign monarchy

He did say that, check the source. Your argument doesn't hold. Croatia was at that time a part of Austrian empire. Neither is Smiljan a state,but he was born there. Yeah, the quote "I was born in Croatia" is Tesla's quote. Croatia at that time was a kingdom within Austrian Empire. Kingdom_of_Croatia_(Habsburg). It wasn't independent, but Tesla was born there. In that kingdom which was a part of Austrian Empire. Of course he had Austrian passport, which was issued by Croatia. In "Tribute to King Alexander" he didn't say that he is a Croat, but he did say, and I should quote again: "I was born in Croatia". I told you the date and I directed you to the archive. You are free to find that article for yourself, since I have a feeling you'll just say that I want to trick you. New York Times has an online archive. Yeah, I see how much evidence you know: made up quotes without sources, you don't know that Croatia was a kingdom within Austrian empire, you don't know about Tesla's statement that he was born in Croatia. As a matter of fact, how do you explain that Tesla's passport was issued by Croatia if Croatia didn't exist at that time? This should be interesting.89.164.162.75 (talk) 22:56, 27 July 2016 (UTC) Kingdom of Croatia was an administrative and political entity of Austrian Empire. What can I say. Go and read the referenced article, or change it if you feel it says something wrong89.164.162.75 (talk) 22:58, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

I am sorry but I can not find original link, I did try tho. Even if he stated that that would not mean that Croatia was a country, he could not be born in country which was under rule of others as that is not a country...its more like idea of a country and that is something else. Tesla was born in village of Smiljan which was in Austria at the time, Smiljan is today part of Croatia. Croatia was occupied and under rule of others, that is not a country, I am sorry. Maybe you are speaking about people, Croats, they did exist of course so he was Serb who was like many others born there, Croatian people were also living there. "Tribute to King Alexander" does not have links to source it is text written by who knows who and who knows when. I am sure that is not whole texts and will say again, even if Tesla stated that this would not prove that he is born in Croatia, only that he might feel like that when we speak about area of land which was called as such among people there while reality is well known, it was Austria.

It doesn't need to be a "country" as you say it to be born there. It was a political entity. Neither Hungary was a county at that time, but people were born there. Croatia was not occupied. "Tribute to King Alexander" was written by Tesla as it says so in the body, and I've already given you the exact date. Funny how easily you dismiss this source, and the unsourced quote that you provided is credible to you. Sure, I'm glad that you accept that Tesla had felt he was born in Croatia. However I posted the second source, haven't I? The one more official...Those two go together...89.164.162.75 (talk) 00:03, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Croats were conquered people, they were under rule of foreign people who were talking another language, Austrians impose many things on them and were forcing people for this and that. Empire was called Austro-Hungarian one, there was no any mention of Croatia except some region without precise borders as nobody was protecting those borders. I am not dismissing "Tribute to King Alexander" just saying that I cant find source of that text as text on wikipedia is surely not complete and it is questionable did Tesla said that he was born in Croatia at all. Even if Tesla was saying that as mentioned above that would not mean nothing. I dont see why you would twist my words and say that I accept that Tesla said that he is born in Croatia, was just saying that even if he said that....read once more. To recap, Tesla was not Croat by his origin, he was not even born in Croatia as it is a fact that Croatia was not country at the time as it was under rule of conquerors, it is simple as that. Tesla was born in Austro Hungarian empire, in village which today is in country called Croatia.

[6], here you go, straight from New York Times archive. If you don't want to pay, here are some other websites: [7], [8]. Well, I've put out very credible sources, while you only have flawed "not a country" logic. Do you have any source? You mentioned some documents, but failed to provide quotes.141.136.228.99 (talk) 11:32, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you but I can not access that link in order to read content. And will ask you to read once more my previous comment from this discussion (and above) where long before you presented this "proof's" I already said that even if Tesla did say that this would not mean that he is born in such a "country". So I dont see a reason why you press on so hard for this "Tribute to King Alexander", maybe it is because you lack of evidence as this is not showing that Croatia was a country even if Tesla did say what you are saying he is. As you probably did not read what I was saying earlier read bellow.

Will quote myself: "Maybe you are speaking about people, Croats, they did exist of course so he was Serb who was like many others born there, Croatian people were also living there. "Tribute to King Alexander" does not have links to source it is text written by who knows who and who knows when. I am sure that is not whole texts and will say again, even if Tesla stated that this would not prove that he is born in Croatia, only that he might feel like that when we speak about area of land which was called as such among people there while reality is well known, it was Austria." End of quote.

For well known and obvious things I dont need a proof, Croatia at the time of Tesla's birth was not a country nor he was ever living in country called Croatia, it was Austro Hungarian empire.

Yeah, you have to pay to access their archive. I agree with your statement that Tesla's statement reflects his own opinion, however I've put forward the king's proclamation from 1850 in which he calls Croatia "zemlja" , which I had translated as land, but the other translation is country. Not independent ,but a country within Austrian Empire, like Austria or Hungary. I'm pressing hard on Tesla's statement because he was intelligent enough to know where he was born. He did not say Austrian Empire, but Croatia. Austrian Empire was composed of distinct political and administrative entities (Austria, Hungary, Croatia...). And the entity where Tesla was born was Croatia, which later became independent of Austrian Empire. Tesla was living in Croatia which was then a part of Austrian Empire. Later it will become independent.141.136.228.99 (talk) 12:50, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Problem is your perspective which is wrong, you have problem with facts that Croatia was not a country, had no specific borders and Croatian people and their "leaders" have no say in Austro Hungarian empire where they were all living together with Serbs and other people. But still you speak and you try to prove something what is your perspective today and what could be Tesla's opinion in that time. If Tesla did say that he is born in Croatia that would be just his feeling or opinion as he was born in are where people were calling that area as Croatia which is just idea and wish of some people there. If you read that whole "Tribute to King Alexander" you would see that there he is proud on Serbs and Serbia that he is seeing all Slavs as people from same origin who speak same language...he was simply trying to give support to Serbian king.(I just read that article). That article could also remove that doubt which you are having about Tesla's ethnicity as it is clear from that text that he is proud on Serbs because he himself is one. I don't see how one can deny facts that Croatia in that time was simply under Austro Hungarian empire, Croatian people same as Serbian there had no country, they could think that they were born in some country but fact is they were all living in Austro Hungarian empire. That is why Tesla had Austrian passport and so on. Croatia became independent after 1941 when they were fascist allies and in that time many of Tesla's relatives were executed or expelled by Croats as they were Serbs, and later on after 1990's after they committed ethnic cleansing of Serbs for 3rd time. Maybe you should check Austrian ethnic maps and see how many Serbs lived in area of today Croatia and how meany of them are there today after 1914, 1941, and 1990's... So to recap, you don't have any evidence that Croatia was a country and this whole discussion started because you were saying that Tesla was born in Croatia while I was saying that he is born in area which is Croatia today, at present time.

Croatia was very much a country within Austrian Empire. It wasn't independent, but still a distinct and defined entity within an empire, that later became. I'm only speaking what the sources tell me. You on the other hand have no sources to back up your claims. I've already agreed with Tesla's statement being only his opinion. However, I've also put out a source to an official document which calls the area Tesla was born in and Croatia a single land. That's an official document. I'm well familiar with the contents of the "Tribute to King Alexander". That article doesn't shed light on Tesla's ethnicity. Nowhere does he say that he is a Serb nor a Croat in that article. Maybe just in your biased interpretation. I don't deny that Croatia at that time was a part of Austrian empire, however your claims that Kingdom of Croatia didn't exist are ridiculous. Croatia become independent in 1991. Nazi puppet states don't count as independent.141.136.228.99 (talk) 18:28, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Simply put it was not a country, country has its own levels of independence and Croats did not have those, one of best examples in this case is Tesla's passport which was Austrian even if he is born and raised in village of Smiljan which you consider to be part of some Croatian country which was not existing at the time. I dont see what kind of source you need for this? Obviously you are having problem with fact that Tesla was a Serb by his ethnicity, his ethnicity is not even questionable as there is more than enough facts and evidence for it. I was only saying that from that article in "New York Times" you could see that Tesla is proud on his people, on Serbs...that is why he was sending this letter about Serbian king and not about some Croatian as Croatian kingdom was simply idea or thoughts of some people no more no less. He send that letter to New York Times because his king was killed on October 9th same year, some 10 days before his letter was written....FYI king was killed by Croats and Macedonians while it was all organized by Croatians. Get your facts straight you are starting to sound just like one more nationalist from Croatia. ps NDH puppet Croatian state in WWII was called also independent, by your reasoning it was also a independent state, if you can say that Croats under Austria were a country you could say the same for "NDH" (Nezavisna Drzava Hrvatska, translation: Independent State of Croatia)....why you dont see this as same? FYI NDH puppet state in WWII had more levels of independence than one which you are mentioning under Austria. Fact is that from some 11th or 12th century Croats newer saw independence until 1990's, that is what even one of your first presidents stated.

A Croatian part of Austrian Empire. His passport was issued by Croatia since he had lived there, it says so on the passport. Sorry but I don't think this is going anywhere. You simply can't grasp that Austrian Empire was composed of distinct political, administrative and cultural entities with Croatia being one of them. Tesla was not stupid when he had said that he was born in Croatia, and that's quite enough for me. However I've gone further and found additional sources, while you only have flawed logic on your side. I guess we've reached a point where it's obvious that you don't have any sources so we should conclude. Do you think so? 141.136.228.99 (talk) 01:00, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Think you should study meaning of word "country" as you obviously dont know what is precise meaning of that. Austro Hungarian empire as very same word says is Austrian and Hungarian empire, there is no mention of Croatia in this empire as Croatia was simply occupied by it and was considered as region under it. Tesla had Austrian passport, it does not matter where it is issued, if it was issued by Austrian empire and this is clear proof of what Croatia was. Tesla is born in Austrian empire which today is part of Croatia, this is clear and undeniable fact.

You should study this article Kingdom of Croatia (Habsburg). Tesla's passport was issued by The Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia-Dalmatia, as it says on his passport. That,as you say is a clear proof that Tesla had lived in Croatia which was then a part of Austro-Hungary. Your "clear and undeniable fact" is trying to suggest that Croatia came into existence after Tesla's time. That of course is wrong, and Kingdom of Croatia (Habsburg) article is my proof. Let me be clear, there isn't anything wrong with the statement that "Tesla was born in Austrian empire which today is part of Croatia" as long as you don't insinuate that he wasn't aware that his birthplace was in the Croatian part of the empire. Luckily readers don't understand that insinuation so they read " Smiljan, Austrian Empire (modern-day Croatia[16])" and your statement " Smiljan, in today Croatia (in that time Austria)" simply as "born in Croatia which was at that time in Austrian Empire". However I'm well familiar with Serbian nationalistic stand so I understand the insinuation. You on the other hand defer from that what Serbian propaganda teaches. It teaches that Tesla was born in Military Frontier which had no connections to Croatia. In that way they are trying to negate that Tesla was born in Croatia. Your "not a country" nonsense just doesn't make any sense which tells me that I'm talking to a 16 year old, so I should really conclude. Lastly, I'll just ask if you really think that anyone will believe your claims without any source to substantiate them?141.136.252.195 (talk) 17:30, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

I am speaking about facts, not sure why you insist on some Serbian "propaganda", that is beyond me. It is more likely that you are under some "Croatian propaganda" as Tesla was Serb and many Croats (probably even you, seeing your words here) have problem with that. Croatian people had no independent country until 1990's which is a fact that only some nationalist can deny, or people without proper knowledge. Existence of nation or people is not same as existence of country. As I was already mentioning you should check meaning of word "country". Tesla was born in Austro-Hungarian empire, he arrived in USA with Austrian passport, and so on. I dont think that I need sources for this, these are well known facts and they don't need discussion as it would be same as having discussion with a man who is claiming that he can fly on his own.

Yet your facts are without a single source. I have no problem with Tesla being a Serb, if you produce sources. You haven't so far. I don't think that anybody denies that Croatia had become independent in 1990' after centuries of being in personal union with Hungary and in Austrian Empire. Your "not an independent country so it doesn't exist" makes no sense. In that logic someone born in Belgrade in between 1945 and 1990 was not born in Serbia, since it didn't exist, but Yugoslavia. That of course is nonsense. It's true that that person had been born in Yugoslavia, but also in Serbia since Belgrade was in Serbia and Serbia in Yugoslavia. Your interpretation of primary sources is ridiculous and that is why wikipedia uses secondary sources. In another words you can't claim that Tesla had arrived in USA with Austrian passport so he wasn't born in Croatia. Mainly because you made that up with your faulty interpretation. You need a source which explicitly says that Tesla wasn't born in Croatia, but born in Austrian Empire. The same as I need a source that explicitly says that he was born in Croatia. "I was born in Croatia" is as explicit as it can get. So, I'm asking you again. Do you have any source to confirm "not a country - doesn't exist" or "austrian passport - croatia doesn't exist" claims?141.136.252.195 (talk) 23:09, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Tesla's ethnicity same as country where he is born is not questionable thing, as I said proof for well known things where you can find evidence in various places is not necessary, not from my side, not here. I am not teacher in junior school to explain basics of statehood.. Croatia was not in union, Croatia was under foreign rule, what you are trying to compare is pretty much pathetic. Serbia even under Turks had statehood which Croatia never had until 1990's, you should read more. Serbia entered Yugoslavia as independent country and Croatia thanks to Serbs was finally free from Austria and get more rights than they ever had in past. Croatia entered Yugoslavia as nation without specific borders, undefined and saved from previous rule, Croatia get level of statehood that they never had before, and they say "thank you" to Serbia with organizing assassination of Serbian king, of Yugoslav king (remember that Tesla's letter, it was written because of this assassination, read that latter and pay more atention). If Tesla was born in 1918 after December 1st you could say that Tesla is born in Croatia but not before that. You should study meaning of words state, republic, federation....maybe this will open your eyes.

Link1 Says who is the king of all people including Croats and who is issuing passport. Link2 here you can see birth certificate and where it is mentioned that he is Orthodox Christian, that he is baptized as an Orthodox Christian and baptizing was just few days after birth and it is well known that only Orthodox Christians (Serbs in this case) baptize children upon their birth. Whole birth certificate is written in Serbian language. His father was an Orthodox priest in Serbian church and his mother was from Orthodox Serbian priest family, her father was also an priest in Serbian church. Country in which Tesla is born is Austro Hungarian empirea and Croatian people same as Serbian people in that area were living under that empire without many rights. Even Tesla in his letter as a tribute to Serbian king explains partially this where you can see that he says that people there were not capable to fight or do anything against invaders (Austrians)

Please find another place to write about your political views, I was speaking about facts and I am not interested to have conversation with some Croatian nationalist who can not accept facts such as that Tesla was Serb ...and so on. I am sure that you will find many nationalistic sites where you can express your views about Serbs and Serbia. Good luck. I will not have any further discussion with man like you.