User talk:Gastroking

Welcome!

Welcome to Wikipedia, Gastroking! Thank you for your contributions. I am Malik Shabazz and I have been editing Wikipedia for some time, so if you have any questions feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Wikipedia:Questions or type {{help me}} at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes (~~~~); that will automatically produce your username and the date. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 19:26, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish history

Please read WP:LEAD and WP:UNDUE. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 19:28, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Father of

Edits that add text like "X was known as the father of Y" (diff and diff) are not desirable at Wikipedia. If a named author publishes an article making that statement, readers understand that it is the assessment of the author. However, at Wikipedia, such text is essentially meaningless because many authors have made various claims, and adding their "father of" thoughts to articles does not add objective information—there is no such thing as "X was the father of Y" when Y is an idea. If someone invented something, just say that. If someone was first to propose an idea or procedure, just say that. In addition to its imprecise nature, father of is often used for "boosterism" where people use the phrase to promote someone or something.

Issues such as father of have been explored thoroughly in the past. For example, see WP:Jagged 85 cleanup for an egregious case of boosterism which involved scores of father of edits and thousands of other distortions. Some further comments are here. That's a complex case which would take hours to understand—I'm pointing to it merely to show what I meant with my 'we don't do "Father of" any more' comment at Avicenna. See also Talk:Avicenna/Archive 3#Misuse of sources 3. Johnuniq (talk) 00:47, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point, thank you for your input, and will be careful to refrain from imprecise boosterism. In the case of Avicenna its not the assessment of the single author I cited, rather he's been widely recognized in bearing the "father of" title.

Other sources which cite him as the "Father of Early Modern Medicine" include but are not limited to:

Juergensmeyer M. "The Oxford Handbook of Religion and Violence" p 625
Paul E. "The Emperor Is Buck Naked: Why Medical Evidence Is Not Necessarily Proof" p 12
Herlihy J. "Islam for Our Time: Inside the Traditional World of Islamic Spirituality" p 108
Ma'oz M. "The Meeting of Civilizations: Muslim, Christian, and Jewish" p 243
Ganchy S. "Islam and Science, Medicine, and Technology" p 30

While the undue promotion of Islamic and non-European scholarship should be called out (Jagged 85 example above), its also important to appropriately recognize these scholars when their impact is such and a consensus exists from multiple sources and scholars. Gastroking (talk) 02:19, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but none of those authors stand out as acknowledged authorities on the history of modern medicine. For example, it is likely that Mark Juergensmeyer is merely repeating claims read elsewhere (and Google shows that he wrote the more defensible a father, not the father). Suppose someone tried to justify the statement "Avicenna is regarded as the father of modern medicine". Is there any objective test that could be applied? What work known to have been done by the person would justify such a statement? For example, if the person worked to establish hygiene, that could be noted; if they established evidentiary-based treatments, that could be noted. At any rate, there is strong pushback against attempts to add "father of" to articles, and I am merely the first to let you know. Johnuniq (talk) 03:31, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Gastroking, you are invited to the Teahouse!

Hi Gastroking! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. Come join other new editors at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a space where new editors can get help from other new editors. These editors have also just begun editing Wikipedia; they may have had similar experiences as you. Come share your experiences, ask questions, and get advice from your peers. I hope to see you there! Missvain (I'm a Teahouse host)

Visit the Teahouse

This message was delivered automatically by your robot friend, HostBot (talk) 16:13, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

We at Wikipedia love evidence-based medicine. Please cite high-quality reliable sources. We typically use review articles, major textbooks and position statements of national or international organizations. A list of resources to help edit such articles can be found here. The edit box has a build in citation tool to easily format references based on the PMID or ISBN. WP:MEDHOW walks through editing step by step. We also provide style advice about the structure and content of medicine-related encyclopedia articles. The welcome page is another good place to learn about editing the encyclopedia. If you have any questions, please feel free to drop me a note. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 12:38, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is a better ref [1] as it looks at all the various trials done. Best Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 12:43, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nice. Thank you. Gastroking (talk) 16:36, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome!

Welcome to Wikipedia and Wikiproject Medicine

Hello, MedWelcome-reg, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Quick introduction to Wikipedia
How to write a great article
Ten Simple Rules for Editing Wikipedia, an essay from PLOS Computational Biology
Identifying reliable sources for medicine-related articles (general advice)
Wikipedia's Manual of Style for medicine-related articles (general style guide)
A few tricks to help you format references are at WP:MEDHOW

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, try Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then type {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page.

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If you are interested in improving medicine-related articles, you may want to join WikiProject Medicine (sign up here or say hello here).

Again, welcome! Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 13:01, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Very useful information, thank you. Gastroking (talk) 00:08, 5 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]