User talk:Furawi
August 2020
[edit]Hello. Some of your recent genre changes have conflicted with our neutral point of view and/or verifiability policies. While we invite all users to contribute constructively to Wikipedia, we urge all editors to provide reliable sources for edits made. When others disagree, we recommend you seek consensus for certain edits by discussing the matter on the article's talk page. Thank you. 2402:1980:2C3:14B7:76C5:1AC9:D10:7D9C (talk) 10:48, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
User Talk
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Please stop scrubbing the words "LDS Church" and "Mormon" from articles
[edit]I realize that LDS Church guidelines since 2018 have requested that people stop using those words, but on Wikipedia we aren't constrained to follow the church's preferences, and our manual of style explicitly allows us to use those terms. Regarding the word "Mormon", first, we follow the lead of reliable secondary sources, many of whom still use the word when referring to the church and its memebers. Second, calling people "Latter-day Saints" out of the blue with no explanation is confusing to readers in our very broad audience, many of whom are completely unfamiliar with Mormonism and its WP:Jargon. Most people associate "Saints" with Catholicism, and when you start talking about "Saints" to Catholics (oh, sorry, I mean, members of the Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church) they're liable to think you're talking about dead people who have been recently canonized. ~Awilley (talk) 04:32, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
- Replying to: "you mean my editions of the LDS edition of the Bible and Template:Latter-day Saints right?"
- No. I'm talking about edits like these:
- [1] where you changed at least 13 instances of "LDS Church" to "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (making the "see also" templates at the tops of sections unmanageable, while simply removing links to articles with the word "Mormon" in the title like Black people and Mormonism
- [2] where you changed 5 instances of "LDS Church" to "church", effectively scrubbing the article of all instances of the term "LDS Church" with the edit summary "removing redundant words"
- [3] 6 more instances of "LDS Church" changed to "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (wait, I thought we were concerned about redundant words)
- [4] 1 instance of each (shortening and lengthening)
- [5] Removed the only image from an article, presumably because it contained the term "LDS" with the excuse of it being an old logo, but you neglected to replace it with the new logo.
- [6] Another "LDS Church" -> "church"
- [7] and [8] More "LDS Church" -> "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
- [9] "Less active Mormon" -> "Less active Latter-day Saint". "Ex-Mormon" -> "Ex-Latter-day Saint"
- [10] Removed Mormonism from the infobox in the main Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints article.
- Forgive me if I see a pattern. For whatever reasons, the terms "LDS Church" and "Mormon" seem to disappear from articles you edit. ~Awilley (talk) 15:16, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Awilley 1: those are wikilinks and were already discussed in the talk page by other administrator, and he decided to leave it like that.
- 2: yes, it is redundant because the article is about the Church not about other church or a person, so it's redundant to always say "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" or "LDS Church". Note to say that "church" is also informal for the Church.
- 3: see 1.
- 4: see 1 and 2.
- 5: I wanted to keep the image in other site of the article but seemed that the image doesn't exists in Wikimedia Commons. As I added the image in Primary (LDS) article.
- 6: see 2.
- 7: see 1 (in the External links I didn't removed "LDS Church" or "Mormon Church").
- 8: wikilink that is not seen.
- 9: already discussed it to you and you haven't replied.
- 10: Mormonism article is about all the doctrine in the Latter Day Saint movement, not the doctrine of Church.
- All those edits were fine, I don't see they are a problem. Furawi (talk) 15:44, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
- No, all those edits are not fine, regardless of whether or not you see the problem. Why are you so intent on removing terms like "LDS Church" when they are the most convenient/specific and accepted way to refer to the church? ~Awilley (talk) 03:16, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Awilley You are the only one who is complaining about my edits, the other administrator, and editors in overall are fine about those edits (except the 10, I admit that was a rushed edition and it has to be discussed in the talk page) that's why you are the one who has to talk, I tried to discuss it with you in your talk page but you never answered, then you revert me again and you mention to don't do "edit war" and talk it but again, you don't wanna talk, but in this conversation you ask me why "are you so intent on removing terms like 'LDS Church' when they are the most convenient/specific and accepted way to refer to the church?", but ignore why I did, see 2, and all the other things I said, I'm not removing LDS Church in a person article related to the Church or anything, the article I'm doing these edits are the specific Church articles, because is redundant, and convenient to who? To the newspapers haters of the Church? Or the Ex-Latter-day Saint people? Or the articles wrote before 2018? There's a lot of people that use the complete name of the Church, seems like you are the one who doesn't follow WP:NPOV because using "LDS Church" is anti-Church, and use "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint" or "the Church" is pro-Church, but in Wikipedia we have to be neutral, and the best way for that I think is simply use "church". Furawi (talk) 05:27, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- Also maybe you haven't noticed but in the Template:Latter-day Saints, there's other stuff and not related to the problem you wanna aboard, but you continue reverting it without considering the other stuff. And what do you mean "it's weird to call it the 'Holy Bible' in Wikipedia's voice", is just the name of a religious book, that is the name that the Church uses, it doesn't matter if its weird for you, the word Holy is used in many article titles. But again, I already discussed this in your talk page and you never answered. Furawi (talk) 05:35, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Awilley You are the only one who is complaining about my edits, the other administrator, and editors in overall are fine about those edits (except the 10, I admit that was a rushed edition and it has to be discussed in the talk page) that's why you are the one who has to talk, I tried to discuss it with you in your talk page but you never answered, then you revert me again and you mention to don't do "edit war" and talk it but again, you don't wanna talk, but in this conversation you ask me why "are you so intent on removing terms like 'LDS Church' when they are the most convenient/specific and accepted way to refer to the church?", but ignore why I did, see 2, and all the other things I said, I'm not removing LDS Church in a person article related to the Church or anything, the article I'm doing these edits are the specific Church articles, because is redundant, and convenient to who? To the newspapers haters of the Church? Or the Ex-Latter-day Saint people? Or the articles wrote before 2018? There's a lot of people that use the complete name of the Church, seems like you are the one who doesn't follow WP:NPOV because using "LDS Church" is anti-Church, and use "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint" or "the Church" is pro-Church, but in Wikipedia we have to be neutral, and the best way for that I think is simply use "church". Furawi (talk) 05:27, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
- No, all those edits are not fine, regardless of whether or not you see the problem. Why are you so intent on removing terms like "LDS Church" when they are the most convenient/specific and accepted way to refer to the church? ~Awilley (talk) 03:16, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
"Bible Videos" listed at Redirects for discussion
[edit]The redirect Bible Videos has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 June 12 § Bible Videos until a consensus is reached. ~Awilley (talk) 04:35, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
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