User talk:François Robere/sandbox/ornamental patterns and motifs
Comments
[edit]I'm rather dubious about this. In particular the bottom bit, by media seems odd. "Ceramics: Grotesque Meander Scroll Triskelion" why? What ceramics use the Triskelion much? The textile section confuses practical weaves like Herringbone & Houndstooth with decorative patterns. Why Interlace? There are 66 articles in Category:Ornaments (architecture) - it's hard to see why you have selected those you have. An awful lot of motifs are restricted to, or mainly found in, a particular culture or period, and within that are found across many media. Sorry not to be more enthusiastic. Johnbod (talk) 01:29, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
- @Johnbod: First off I should to explain the reason behind this template: it's true that patterns and motifs can be culture- and time- specific, but they group into larger "families" (eg. geometric, aquatic...), and many repeat through different cultures. I'm interested in the overall taxonomy of the subject, ie the cataloguing of those patterns according to repeating concepts (patterns). Insofar as cataloguing is meant to be useful to the reader, we can very well include "patterns according to era" and "patterns according to culture" section. This template isn't complete; I would like to incorporate as many of these as possible.
In particular the bottom bit
I know the bottom is a bit problematic - it's immensely difficult to get right, and I'm not at all sure I'll keep it.The textile section confuses practical weaves... with decorative patterns
Why do I consider weaves decorative? Because that's one of their main purposes - and many weaves are solely decorative, while others can be either or both: a single color herringbone is visually uninteresting and could be considered entirely practical (cheap, durable, what have you), but the moment you add a second color it becomes decorative as well. As an aside, I just made this edit to differentiate between Herringbone pattern and Herringbone weave.- Thanks for your feedback! François Robere (talk) 10:03, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
- François Robere—I can't speak for Johnbod but I would say that "practicality" in weaves is concerned less with color than with the resulting durability of the fabric, which gains strength and stability from the number of "over and under" threads (the interlacing of warp threads and weft threads). I'm not an expert but I would guess that "decorative patterns" sacrifice "over and under" relationships between threads to achieve a desired pattern. Perhaps plain weave could be added. Bus stop (talk) 13:45, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
- I'm no expert either. but I think that usually the woven construction is the same, but different colours of threads are used and contolled. Johnbod (talk) 14:05, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
- So we'll have to be careful with that. I'm not looking to include all weaves, just those that create, or are commonly used for the creation of unique decorative patterns. Does this make sense? François Robere (talk) 16:23, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
- I'm no expert either. but I think that usually the woven construction is the same, but different colours of threads are used and contolled. Johnbod (talk) 14:05, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
- François Robere—I can't speak for Johnbod but I would say that "practicality" in weaves is concerned less with color than with the resulting durability of the fabric, which gains strength and stability from the number of "over and under" threads (the interlacing of warp threads and weft threads). I'm not an expert but I would guess that "decorative patterns" sacrifice "over and under" relationships between threads to achieve a desired pattern. Perhaps plain weave could be added. Bus stop (talk) 13:45, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, it does. "Decorative patterns" is an interesting concept. The problem is finding a definition for a "decorative pattern". How would one distinguish between that which is a "decorative pattern" and that which is not a "decorative pattern"? A Meander (art) fits the bill. As does Polka dot. I think Paisley (design) fits the bill. Tartan too. I'm not sure if Warp printing is a "decorative pattern" but I'd be more inclined to include it. Without a definition of what belongs under "Ornamental patterns and motifs", it could be difficult to exclude anything. Bus stop (talk) 17:37, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
- By purpose. If there are additional purposes to the pattern...
- I see the problem here. It's my error - I wanted to include the pattern, of which I've seen examples before, not the technique. I'm not sure we actually have an article on the pattern. I've removed it. François Robere (talk) 16:17, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, it does. "Decorative patterns" is an interesting concept. The problem is finding a definition for a "decorative pattern". How would one distinguish between that which is a "decorative pattern" and that which is not a "decorative pattern"? A Meander (art) fits the bill. As does Polka dot. I think Paisley (design) fits the bill. Tartan too. I'm not sure if Warp printing is a "decorative pattern" but I'd be more inclined to include it. Without a definition of what belongs under "Ornamental patterns and motifs", it could be difficult to exclude anything. Bus stop (talk) 17:37, 9 April 2020 (UTC)