User talk:Fogartylee

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Hello, Fogartylee, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, or you can click here to ask for help on your talk page, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! We are so glad you are here! Jim1138 (talk) 19:12, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict of interest notice

Hello, Fogartylee. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places, or things you have written about in the article World of Spectrum, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a COI may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic, and it is important when editing Wikipedia articles that such connections be completely transparent. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. In particular, we ask that you please:

avoid editing or creating articles related to you and your family, friends, school, company, club, or organization, as well as any competing companies' projects or products;
instead, you are encouraged to propose changes on the Talk pages of affected article(s) (see the {{request edit}} template);
when discussing affected articles, disclose your COI (see WP:DISCLOSE);
avoid linking to the Wikipedia article or to the website of your organization in other articles (see WP:SPAM);
exercise great caution so that you do not violate Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation (see WP:PAID).

Please take a few moments to read and review Wikipedia's policies regarding conflicts of interest, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, sourcing and autobiographies. Thank you. Jim1138 (talk) 19:12, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring notice

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on World of Spectrum. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Jim1138 (talk) 19:12, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have only undone changes from a known trouble maker, and added that I am the owner of the site as I took over a few years ago. MrMajors was banned from the WoS forums a few weeks ago and has taken to vandalising the wos pages here instead.

He knows full well that WoS isn't commercial, or connected to the shops you have added. This is damaging to the WoS reputation and standing in the community. If you can't stop him from vandalising the pages and restore them to reflect the correct position we are in, then I will have to request that the page is removed entirely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fogartylee (talk • contribs)

I would suggest you preface your addition to the AfD with "* '''Delete'''" (leave out the nowiki stuff) which compiles to:

Delete Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 22:14, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Also, if you want to alert me to your talk on a talk page (such as here) please wp:ping me (or another) by prefacing with {{ping|Jim1138}}, your message, then sign with four tildes "~~~~". Please remember to sign your name on talk pages with four tildes. (it doesn't work if you save the ping without signing. Thank you Jim1138 (talk) 22:17, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim1138: The article also mentions Martijn taking a sabatical in 2014 - which he did. In November 2014, he announced via a IRC chat to the community that he was handing the site to me - initially it was to be a slow take-over, but the server died in March 2015 so progress was accelerated. The site is entirely owned by me on my servers. There is no mirror or dispute of ownership. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fogartylee (talk • contribs)

Wikipedia goes by what is stated in wp:reliable sources. Original content, wp:original research, or wp:synthesis is not verifiable and should not be used. If you have s source that is not on blogs, wp:primary sourced (i.e. on World of Spectrum's website), please by all means add that information. If it gets removed, I would suggest doing a wp:third opinion or other wp:dispute resolution. If the 3O agrees with your edit and it gets removed, then open a ticket on wp:Administrator's noticeboard. BTW: You forgot to sign with four tildes "~~~~", so I did not get notified. Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 03:13, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim1138:I'm not entirely sure what you mean? How can it be a reliable source if you are asking me to edit the homepage of my website to prove that it's my website? I could just as easily shut the site down. I find it very strange that this discussion is even happening considering the argument started because someone was banned from the forums for causing trouble - then comes here to do the same. The person you have listed as site owner hasn't come here to dispute ownership. It would have been easier if you put "created by" and "owner"Fogartylee (talk) 10:22, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

OK - so now the home page states I own the site. Can we now work on the wiki page that states WoS is commercial? One of the main reasons we have copyright permissions is because WoS doesn't make any money. It's never been commercial, and that line was added out of pure spite.Fogartylee (talk) 10:39, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim1138:It's very likely MrMajors isn't who he appears to be. I have a suspicion as to who it isFogartylee (talk) 23:29, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' notice board

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is World of Spectrum. Thank you. Jim1138 (talk) 19:20, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

July 2016

Please refrain from using talk pages such as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/World of Spectrum for general discussion of the topic or other unrelated topics. They are for discussion related to improving the article; not for use as a forum or chat room. If you have specific questions about certain topics, consider visiting our reference desk and asking them there instead of on article talk pages. See here for more information. You don't seem to understand that a deletion discussion is for discussing the possible deletion of the nominated article. A deletion discussion page is not intended to discuss the subject itself, but whether or not it should deserve a Wikipedia article. Whether or not you would like to see World of Spectrum deleted is beside the point. Please see Wikipedia:Introduction to deletion process for information. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 18:13, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Soetermans: I posted it there because at the top of the page it says about spammers - which he is. Whilst you guys are going back & forth with daft arguments with him, you are damaging the reputation of my website by continuing to say on the page that it is commercial. I can't change it because I am the owner, but you can't even acknowledge that either. If you'd like me to turn off the server so the wiki pages are useless then that's an option.Fogartylee (talk) 18:20, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Soetermans: OK - I've blocked all links from Wikipedia to the server. Over this evening I will put a page in it's place explaining why. Fogartylee (talk) 18:49, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There is nothing whatsoever about spammers on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/World of Spectrum, or are you referring to another Wikipedia guideline? I don't understand why you would block any links coming from Wikipedia, because World of Spectrum is also used as a source of reference. Do you mean Mrmajor? Because in case you haven't noticed, they (we can't assume he is male, you know) are also in favor of deleting the article on World of Spectrum. Bashing another Wikipedian, especially concerning activities outside of Wikipedia, aren't helpful at all. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 19:39, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Soetermans: I've blocked them and will be routing to a page explaining the problems I have had getting two simple changes made - one of which can very easily result in us losing a lot of existing permissions as you are stating the site is commercial when it isn't. Also, I am the owner. Those are the only two changes I tried to make, and mrmajors - and he is a he - knows this. Fogartylee (talk) 19:46, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(1) Holding the site ransom will not win you any favors. On its face, it really leaves us with no choice but to remove all WoS links from Wikipedia if the block isn't lifted. (2) Re: the "commercial" claim—the primary sources used for that claim were weak and objectionable, in my opinion, so I took the discussion to the talk page. (3) Is there a definitive page that you are using to show that you are the owner? czar 19:59, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Czar: There is no page apart from the homepage I edited this week. There was a huge IRC chat in November 2014 where Martijn announced he was leaving for good and handing the site over to me. Given that I own the server, all original code (commented by Martijn), the files, etc, and that only Martijn could have routed the DNS to my server, I think is proof enough - but I have explained this over & again to your admins and it gets changed back. Fogartylee (talk) 20:03, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Besides the outcome of the deletion discussion, you are only hurting yourself with blocking links from Wikipedia. If an interested reader would like to know more about, say, Rescue on Fractalus!, why won't you allow them access to World of Spectrum if they happen to come through Wikipedia? Your issues with Mrmajors and any inconsistencies with the articles can't be so bad that you are denying access for readers interested in the ZX Spectrum, can't it? soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 20:06, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Czar:Thank you - can we look at the ownership issue? I suggest putting "Created By" and "Current Owner" to clarify things Fogartylee (talk) 21:10, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Soetermans: When copyright holders withdraw permission because you state the site is commercial, then yes it does matter. ALL of the permissions we have are based on WoS being non-commercial. If I need to, I can put a page on WoS explaining this to visitors from wikipedia alongside an ongoing battle I have to get the page accurate, with a link back to the main site. I have the new site going live shortly, and there will be a lot of publicity around it. I don't need people reading spite from a disgruntled user when that happens. Fogartylee (talk) 20:14, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Soetermans: Also - I think you may have overestimated wikipedias importance to WoS. Out of the hundreds of thousands of monthly hits, Wikipedia doesn't even register on the pie chart. If it was a business then it probably would matter - but accuracy is more important. Fogartylee (talk) 21:10, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's not about Wikipedia's importance to WoS—it's the other way around. We wouldn't have linked to WoS as a supplemental source on dozens of articles if the site wasn't important to giving readers the best possible information (especially when we want to link to resources when we haven't written any ourselves). You can run your private site as you wish, since we view Wikipedia as a public good, please understand that it is deeply disturbing for us to see a site blacklist out of a content dispute, because it only hurts our readers. (I'll also add, for the record, that most of the people participating in the other WoS discussions here are not necessarily WP "admins"—they are typically just editors. There is very little hierarchy around these parts.)

Now, all that aside, I had seen the front page of WoS but I would have preferred to have seen a separate source (preferably secondary, reliable, independent from WoS, published, that details the transition, etc.) But the WoS front page, I think, is enough to change the creator tag. I think you'll find the change fair but I also think that asking around for help would have been a more efficacious route than the scorched earth above. czar 01:01, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Czar: I appreciate the changes. WoS is also a resource - and mostly works on user contributions, so I do understand where you are coming from. I would say however - one of your admins pointed to https://twitter.com/YourSinclairRRY - it doesn't take much scrolling though to see where most of these editors came from, and the aim of the page is to discredit WoS because of a disgruntled owner. It's very difficult to type anything on wikipedia without it being posted there as a weapon. WoS in general is friendly and if your admins need any points clarifying, asking on the forums will generally give you an answer - there is a lot of hidden knowledge amongst the users there. I know the team have also planned a lot of new information to be added to titles which will certainly be of use to wikipedia, so hopefully this can all be put to bed now and we can move forward and start providing you with more information. Fogartylee (talk) 01:37, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Czar: I just had an email from the owner of a test site - zxcomputing.co.uk wanting to know why you have changed all of the WoS links and are now sending traffic to his dev server?