User talk:Ennimate

Graf

I'll repeat. Regardless if they made a booboo on Friday or Monday, there is still a clear noting it was the 22nd. Monday was the 25th? Okay then they clearly meant Friday since they are saying the 22nd. Not sure why it's this big thing. Rusted AutoParts 04:43, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll repeat. There's a clear discrepancy. There is no other source with that exact date, her dave is commonly given as "announced on March 25". So you alone keep insisting, that it must be correct though it's obviously not. Just your own interpretation what they "clearly meant". Bring a valid source - fine. Otherwhise, it's more than just thin ice... --Ennimate (talk) 04:56, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I mean, you're the one making the assumption the 22 is a typo. Regardless I was in the middle of adding onto my point when you replied, on the lone basis of it being the only current source is why I restored it to the 25th as announced (you just flat out deleted her entry from the deaths page which wasn't okay). Rusted AutoParts 04:58, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But since there is concern expressed, I am relocating to the 25th on the Deaths page. Only on the basis that its the one source at the moment saying 22nd. I think it's a reach to assume it's a typo on their end but as there's concern, I'll look for another one. Rusted AutoParts 04:56, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be fine with March 22, if it would be stated by at least some sources. I just was to contact Fightnews.com for clarification, but their contact page is faulty, and I'm still trying to find a valid mail adress. --Ennimate (talk) 05:02, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Giovanna Hoffmann

Hi. Thanks for updating Giovanna Hoffmann. Where did you get the appearance numbers for Werder Bremen II from? None of the sources in the article seem to have them? Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 21:58, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The numbers had already been submitted on her de-WP page. And it's the same given in football database soccerdonna.com, which is also linked there. Alternatively, I see the RB Leipzig team frequently, so there's often the chance to talk to the players an the staff and ask for such things. --Ennimate (talk) 20:42, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks for your reply.

The numbers had already been submitted on her de-WP page. We cannot rely on other Wikipedias per WP:CIRCULAR.
And it's the same given in football database soccerdonna.com, which is also linked there. Soccerdonna is not a considered a reliable source here; see WP:WPFLINKSNO.
I see the RB Leipzig girl frequently, so there's often the chance to talk to them and ask for such things. That doesn't work either. Wikipedia:Verifiability: "[Wikipedia]'s content is determined by previously published information rather than editors' beliefs, opinions, experiences, or previously unpublished ideas or information. Even if you are sure something is true, it must have been previously published in a reliable source before you can add it".

I guess those numbers have to be removed for now. Robby.is.on (talk) 20:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Then take your time, visit fussball.de (where all published daran is based on official German football club portal DFBnet.org), search for all games of Werder Bremen 2 in the given time frame, and you have your numbers as well. And by the way: All sources underneath the article are nothing else but some kind of news, of course you won't find any statistics there. That's the reason, articles for football players usually have at least one database (soccerway, worldfootballnet, weltfussball, soccerdonna etc.) linked. If you don't trust any of them or see them as useless, there's a lot of work ahead... --Ennimate (talk) 21:08, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Unless I'm mistaken fussball.de is user-generated like Soccerdonna. Soccerway and worldfootball.net (weltfussball belongs to worldfootball.net) are not user-generated which is why we consider these database reliable and frequently rely on them. Robby.is.on (talk) 21:23, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Even if I share your cautioness against SD in some way, I personally would consider neither SD nor SW or WF better (= more reliable) than the others. All of them have their short-comings, e.g. being incomplete, no matter if regarding membership of an amateur club, played matches (esp. in lower leagues, but even international ones, etc. - I have seen that a lot while doing my research for the creation or extention of players articles.

Regarding fussball.de, you are right, that it is user-generated - if you see team officials and authorized personal by the German tiers and leagues as "users" only, as well. If you want to know, how it exactly works and why any match data (that was my point, no community stuff) is nothing else but official (and so reliable as it can only be), just have a look here: [1]. However, there is some important thing to mention: If a player denies to have his data published or a club denies the release of a player's or team's data (e.g. due to age restrictions, missing authorization, or simple due to an intern policy), it won't be shown out of DFBnet. That's why you won't find any relevant data for Werder Bremen II for the season 2016/17 on worldfootball.net except for some players listed, but no match data at all.

But to make it short: If you see the need to remove those four games and goals - just do it. I got my personal confirmation on Tuesday, and I would get another by reaching out to the club administration and asking for her match data of that particular season. That's the facts. No matter if some football database seems to know better... --Ennimate (talk) 13:23, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, I appreciate that. It would nice find out that fussball.de is not user-generated. Right now, I don't have the time and energy to read the 30-page PDF document you linked to.

I'd rather discuss the reliability of sources at venues where consensus has weight. If just the two of us were to agree here on your Talk page, that wouldn't get us far. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football, the Talk page of the community of football editors, and Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard, the Wikipedia-wide place to discuss the reliability of sources, would be appropriate.

That's the facts. No matter if some football database seems to know better... I don't really doubt the numbers but per Wikipedia policy the knowledge you have is not enough. Remember this from Wikipedia:Verifiability which I quoted above: "Even if you are sure something is true, it must have been previously published in a reliable source before you can add it". Robby.is.on (talk) 16:08, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]