User talk:Elias Antonius

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I commend you for your courageousness

Fellow 'Antiochian Greek' here. I've been quite irritated myself by the attempted edits to annul our Byzantine heritage. --ByzRoman (talk) 05:45, 17 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Reference errors on 5 June

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Antiochian Greeks

I advice you to read Talk:Antiochian_Greeks#Is_that_a_serious_article_.21 carefully before reverting anything. and participate in the talk page.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 15:04, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You completely vandalized the Antiochian Greek page with your Aramean bias! How do you delete the Hellenistic Age or Roman Age of our history? How do you get off deleting our pre-Christian heritage? Elias Antonius (talk) 15:11, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You have no pre-christian heritage, you are followers of a church and the heritage of a church start after christ. Ethnic Greeks have pre-christian heritage and they have their own article that you can edit. However, you cant turn the greek christians into Ethnic Greeks. Continue this discussion on the article talk page.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 15:17, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You can try all you want to try and turn my community into "Arameans" but we know the truth. You are nothing more than a racist Arameanist. You are just like the Arabists who try to force their identity on us. Elias Antonius (talk) 15:34, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Im not an Aramean. You can write an article about the Rum Greek identity much like the Phoenicianism, but you cant make it look as a fact. It is academically, historically and genetically refused that most of the levantine Greek orthodox are Ethnic Greeks. I have provided the required sources. I advise you to expand the article Greeks in Syria. But you cant merge a Church with an Ethnic origin.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 15:40, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The page was never a Church or religious article to begin with! In reality the Greeks in Syria page should have been merged with the Antiochian Greeks page. It has always been an ethnic Antiochian page long before I started help expand it. Those Antiochian Greek Orthodox & Melkite Catholic Christians of Aramean or Arab descent have their own pages already. The Antiochian Greek Orthodox & Melkite Catholic Churches have their own pages. All the information you removed came from other Wikipedia pages(which btw No one was claiming the Phoenicians to be of Sea People descent. It's historical fact, that the rise of their civilization came after the Bronze Age Collapse which was caused by the Sea Peoples). Elias Antonius (talk) 16:40, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Every thing you said is refused academically and the sources in the article are clear about that. In Wikipedia we count on reliable sources, Bring them, but first understand what are they Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. I would advise you not to cause troubles and push your POV in order to avoid being blocked. The Antiochian Greeks orthodox and Melkite are not Ethnic Greeks which is proven. If you want them to be, then it has to be done outside of Wikipedia.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 16:43, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Everything I said is refused by Wikipedia reliable source policy, yet all I did was gather information from other approved Wikipedia pages? That doesn't even make sense you do realize that right? Elias Antonius (talk) 16:46, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It is not refused as a history for Greeks in Syria, but it is refused as a history for Greek church followers in Syria. There is a difference between someone from the Greek church of Antioch and between an actual Greek. As for the page being an ethnic page, that was before I notice it. Those Ethnic aspects were un-scoured and were not suppose to be on Wikipedia. However, the lack of neutral editors watching the page led for it to be Ethnic which is a big mistake. Syrians were Hellinized and most of them adhered to the Church of the State and that does not mean that they became Greeks. Lets not argue a lot, Wikipedia is NOT a forum for opinions. take care.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 16:50, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ofcourse, when you have reliable sources to back whatever claims you have, then open a discussion on the Antiochian Greeks talk page. Controversial articles in Wikipedia should be worked on after gaining a consensus, and dont forget that you cant delete reliably sourced material on a controversial article, you only can add the other point of view with the condition that it is reliably sourced.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 16:56, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

the article was never a page for the history of the Greek Church followers. There are already other pages for the history of the Greek Church followers. This page was an ethnic page (which should have been merged with Greeks of Syria). You're confusing the fact that Greeks from Syria called themselves Antiochians. I'm not going to waste my time anymore. I'd fed up with non-Antiochians coming in and trying to force the page to be just another Antiochian Christian page when its not. You are literally refusing to allow a page about Levantine Greeks to exist. There is no doubt in my mind if the Greeks of Syria page was expanded it too would be taken over and deleted. Elias Antonius (talk) 17:09, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Again, unless you have reliable source for the claim that Orthodox and Melkite followers are ethnic Greeks then we have nothing to talk about. However, feel free to expand the page of Greeks in Syria as it is the real Ethnic page, but dont mix religion with Ethnicity. If that Happened and something like this was written : today, all the followers of Antioch Greek churches are ethnic Greeks. Then it will be taken down unles its reliably sourced. and be careful for the numbers, you need good resources on the number of real Ethnic Greeks in Syria (They are no more than 10000 if I remember) Have a Nice day.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:14, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Greeks in Syria

As a sign of good well, and so you can understand that this isnt a denial of Greeks but an actual strive for the integrity of the encyclopedia, I have added all what was deleted from Antiochian Greeks (a religious sect) to the article Greeks in Syria (an Ethnic article). However, Palmyra was Aramean not Greek. so it was not added. and Ofcourse I have the source for Palmyra non-Greekness. Take care.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:27, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This does show a sign of good will, which i do appreciate. One question, why wasn't the Ottoman information specifically concerning the Greek War of Independence and the Genocide not added as well?Elias Antonius (talk) 17:31, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You can add whatever you want man, I just thought that since they are in the Antiochian article then it would be a repetition to copy-paste them to the Greeks in Syria article.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:33, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I understand (And I do thank you for doing that), personally i'd like to see it added as well. And then you won't hear a peep out of me. Elias Antonius (talk) 17:36, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I added them, but later (when I have time) I will try to make them shorter in the Antiochian article so it does not become a Wikipedia:Content forking (fork) for Greeks in Syria. I hope that there is no hard feelings and that you dont take it personally. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:44, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, seeing that you were willing to do what you did there is no hard feelings. Let me ask you though, would it be ok to rename the Greeks of Syria page to Greco-Syrian peoples?Elias Antonius (talk) 18:20, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I thought you wanted an article that represent the Greeks in Syria. Much like Assyrians in Syria, Armenians in Syria... etc, its the costume for the article to be named Greeks in Syria. Greco-Syrian would indicate a mixed population and you want an article only about Greeks. Some editors would object so you should probably post on the talk page and suggest the move Wikipedia:Requested moves.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 18:48, 6 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The topic of Antiochian Greeks is covered by discretionary sanctions under WP:ARBMAC

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