User talk:Eckee

McMahon's Mill Cave System

Hi, I am a member of the Tri-State Grotto, a local caving club, and I have a lot of information on the caves near McMahon's mill, having in fact dug open both the lead you describe as needing exploration in McMahon's Mill Cave number 1 and the vertical shaft pictured in 2006. While I would like information on these caves to be accessible, there is a sensitive relationship with the landowner. I live in Washington County, and would gladly help you document these caves. Chackley (talk) 07:21, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

As you probably have realized, and as the book suggests, the caves of that area are linked together hydrologically, and all geologically related. The downstream end of the system is Howell cave; this is the resurgence of the stream encountered in the cave with the crevice entrance. Howell cave terminates in collapse below the large sink containing the entrance to McMahon's Mill cave, and these caves, Howell and McMahon's number 1, are in reality two segments of the trunk passage. While ridge-walking the area in 2005, A friend and I found the small sink that is now the entrance to the crevice cave (which we have simply called McMahon's Mill Number 3), and spent several full days digging there to open that cave. Originally, this cave had no natural entrance, save a hole smaller than my fist about 15 feet from the present entrance. After expending quite an effort on the original hole, we broke into the entrance you see today. Realizing the entrance shaft would require vertical gear, we contacted the owner, who denied us access under any circumstances. This cave remains strictly closed by the owner, though a local group has been visiting it frequently. Our group has explored the cave thoroughly, yielding about 500 feet of passage. Several areas are well decorated. This cave is not in fact McMahon's Mill # 2; the entrance to this cave is near a large sinkhole to the Northwest, beyond the grassy meadow. It is of an entirely different character, also beautifully decorated and protected from vandalism by its obscure location. It appears to be an infeeder to the main trunk, which can be traced from Howell cave, through McMahon's Mill number 1, and into McMahon's mill number 3.

Access to our newly opened cave being denied, we decided to search elsewhere for an entrance. Our search brought us to a low lead off of the entrance room of McMahon's Mill number 1. After another concerted effort here, we broke into 500 feet of well decorated passage beyond the known cave. The trough which fills with water near the entrance was where we dug though; I believe this is "the wormhole". Though the Caves(McMahon's Mill 1 and McMahon's Mill 3) almost certainly connect, the passage cannot be made yet by a human. We have tunneled through about 20 feet of calcite-cemented rock in an attempt to make this connection.

All told, we have dug open about 1000 feet of previously unknown passage in this area. This comes with some guilt; already, some of the more vulnerable formations in these caves have been broken by careless parties. The reason I would rather communicate this information directly to you than edit the article is that I am hesitant to make the locations of these caves, which have for thousands of years escaped the defacing many Maryland caves have suffered, public knowledge. Optimally, I would like to connect the system together, fill in extraneous entrances, and somehow control access to the main entrance. This way, cavers, whether related to the grotto or not, would still have access to the caves, yet there would be a filter to prevent them from becoming over-visited. As the person mainly responsible for opening these caves, I feel an obligation to take some action to conserve them. 

As for the access situation, here is how things stand.

Howell Cave is on NPS land, open. McMahon's Mill Cave number 1 is also on NPS land. McMahon's Mill Cave numbers 2 and 3 are on private land, and I suspect the owner would prosecute trespassers.

Artz Cave is also nearby, and in terms of formations, is the gem of the area.

In addition, we have opened around 40 previously undescribed caves in eastern Washington County alone. I'd love to collaborate with you on a survey of these caves. I go to school in Massachusetts, but will be home for intersession soon. There are many caves that need to be better documented and protected.

Feel free to email me at chackley07@simons-rock.edu. I have a more extensive report on the area as well as much more information on Maryland Caves.

My name is Corey, by the way. Good to meet a fellow caver!

Chackley (talk) 20:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Having watched the video, the cave pictured as "the wormhole" is actually a separate cave, which we have named Fake Fossil Cave. I don't know if the cave has another proper name. Chackley (talk) 20:39, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

"Pinto Mines"

Hello, I'm very glad to see you are developing a much needed list of Maryland caves, especially of those which are located in Allegany County. I've been searching and searching for such a list, and yours is the first I've seen. Thank you for your contributions. I would contact you by e-mail, but I am uncertain as to what your address is.

One description of a "cave" system, which I'm sure you've guessed it to be the Pinto Mines, is of particular interest to me. In the description you mention the exploration of the cave with scuba gear, as well as "deeper passages." Unfortunately, I'm not one of the best when it comes to interpretation, so I'm having some trouble in determining where you say these deeper passages are located. Under the water, or straight back into the hill?

Also, I may be of some help in locating the second cave. I know of another small cave, which mostly collapsed several years ago, and is slightly further west from the large cave. I've read that you located the numerous sinkholes on top of the hill, so I am not certain if you have or haven't seen this cave, as it is near the top of the hill.

It may also be worth noting that upon meticulous inspection of the cliff, one will find numerous, smaller, natural caves that appear to be used by small animals, as well another small hollow near the railroad level in which a spring exits during most of the year. My grandfather also says he was told that the location of the mine was chosen because there used to be a sizable cave there. A starting point for the miners I suppose. It's too bad so much of it has caved in.

Thanks. I hope to hear from you, and I'm sorry for the lengthy message. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rlboyce (talk • contribs) 18:29, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Cave entrance map

[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.64.8.53 (talk) 18:48, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of List of caves of Maryland

The article List of caves of Maryland has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

This article has had a refimprove tag since 2010 and has not been acted on. The negligible amount of content that is cited does not directly apply to the article content. A lot of the editing is original research as seen in the edit summaries and the quality of content added. Additionally, because the article is about a book, referencing that book would be citing a primary source repeatedly which is against Wikipedia's policies and is leading to copyright infringement if it could be discerned what is material from the book (if any) and what is original research on this article. A discussion about this has been started on the talk page but has been ignored. For these reasons, the article has been nominated for deletion, as deleting uncited material would leave almost nothing left in the article.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Leitmotiv (talk) 21:08, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

@Eckee: I have removed the PROD from this article so it won't be deleted without further discussion. The content you created years ago seems very worthwhile to me but it can't survive these days without individual sentences (or at least paragraphs) being referenced inline. Do you still have access to these books? It might not take so very much time to give explicit citation item by item through the article. I find it really good when an old book can be used to bring interesting information online. Best wishes. Thincat (talk) 17:55, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

List of caves of Maryland has been added to Articles for Deletion discussion

Hello Eckee,

Just a courtesy notice to let you know, as the article's creator, that the page has been added to Articles for Deletion here. Leitmotiv (talk) 01:38, 28 November 2017 (UTC)