User talk:EarnestManVIII

re: Port Jervis influence on Crane's Red Badge

Hi, Earnest. My edit from earlier today is here. While I agree that Stanley Wertheim is an indisputable authority in Crane scholarship, there are far more reputable sources aside from what is basically an online FAQ. (We should endeavor to include only the best of sources, which often means reaching for books rather than URLs.) I replaced that particular source with a book written by Wertheim's colleague and co-writer of The Crane Log, Paul Sorrentino; because this work does not mention the trivial fact that Crane's alleged interviews took place near his father's church, I simply removed that part of the sentence. It still mentions Port Jervis, the main point of your addition, I thought. The "alleged" is added because that is what a majority of scholarly sources state, including Wertheim in his 1997 book; it is believed that Crane may have interviewed, etc., etc. As for the historical marker, the image is currently not represented in the Red Badge article, so I'm not sure what you mean? The articles are separate, and do not need to repeat one another. If you disagree with its addition in Crane's article, as opposed to Red Badge, I won't argue against its removal. María (habla conmigo) 19:45, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Note: I've moved the historical marker image to the Red Badge article, it hopefully better belongs. I agree it makes sense there, seeing as how it echoes what is stated in the "Historical accuracy" section (albeit far more resolutely, which signs like that tend to do). I hope this helps clear things up a bit, María (habla conmigo) 19:55, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

If you are able to find a reliable, published, scholarly source that repeats the location (as well as this location's importance) of Crane's alleged interviews, feel free to re-add the information. Having written numerous high-quality articles here on Wikipedia, I can tell you that there are far better sources available than what Google can provide. Most of what is written at The Crane Society website is replicated in printed works. It's not a definitive source, and at may even fall under a self-published source, which is a big no-no. Wertheim's books, however, are definitive, were peer-reviewed, and are highly respected to boot, which is why their inclusion is far more impressive than the inclusion of a website -- no matter who is responsible for it. As I said, books are always better for higher-quality articles. This is not cherry picking, it's Wikipedia policy. Per WP:SOURCES: "Base articles on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.... The appropriateness of any source depends on the context. In general, the best sources have a professional structure in place for checking or analyzing facts, legal issues, evidence, and arguments; as a rule of thumb, the greater the degree of scrutiny given to these issues, the more reliable the source." I hope this helps explain my reasoning. Again, if there's a better source to be found, feel free to re-add. I also don't mind your suggestion to change the current wording to read "It is believed that Crane may have interviewed..." Fine by me. María (habla conmigo) 22:19, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I've given you my reasons as to why I believe the website is a less than stellar source, especially when compared to a reliable, published... etc., etc. Seeing as how Sorrentino's book mentions the fact that Crane grew up in Port Jervis (something the article doesn't make clear), perhaps this info can be substituted for the location of Crane's father's church. I believe this to be more pertinent information, since it deals with Crane's inspiration directly. Crane's father's church's location seems out of left field, which is why I deemed it trivial -- what does the church have to do with Red Badge after all? I'll add a few words saying as much to the page if you agree it's a worthy compromise. (P.S., I just noticed that your signature is not showing the timestamp; you need to sign your name with four tildes, not three. ) María (habla conmigo) 01:08, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

There is a wealth of information beyond what Google has to offer, which I believe I've said several times now. If the proximity of Crane's father's church is as important to Red Badge scholarship as you say it is, than this information should be available in printed sources. So far I have been able to find nothing on this, but perhaps you would have better luck at your local library. Remember, Wikipedia values verifiability, not truth. This is such a minor point that I feel the matter would be laughed out of any form of arbitration. However, I offered a compromise, which would note in the article that Port Jervis was the Crane family's home, park where he listened to stories, etc., but that is apparently not specific enough. I feel I must point out that while The Red Badge of Courage isn't an FA, or even a GA, it is my hope to one day expand and improve it so that it is such, so any interest from others is much appreciated. At this point, however, I feel as if my attention is better spent researching and crafting great articles. If you wish to seek outside help, be my guest. María (habla conmigo) 12:37, 6 April 2011 (UTC)