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July 2015

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GIGN

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Please don't move the text from one page to another, as you did here [1]. We need to actually move the page in order to preserve the history. I will undo the revision and tag the GIGN page for deletion by an admin to make way for a move. Bradv 20:37, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Sorry for the trouble and thanks in advance. Rgds, Bruno--Domenjod (talk) 21:10, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like the deletion request was denied by an admin. I suggest getting consensus on the talk page first if you really want to move the page. Bradv 21:14, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm, I mentioned my wish to rename in the talk page a week ago and got no answer. Maybe my suggestion was not formal enough? I also checked the wikipedia:title article and a few others and found nothing wrong about the idea. Thanks for you help. Bruno ---Domenjod (talk) 21:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I opened a move request: Talk:National Gendarmerie Intervention Group#Requested move 8 April 2016. This is the usual procedure since it is very clear to everyone watching the page that a move is being proposed. Generally best to avoid boldly moving a page, although I have done so in similar instances. Rob984 (talk) 23:57, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Rob984. Will follow up on the articles talk page. Bruno --Domenjod (talk) 06:23, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome. It also would be helpful if you could comment specifying your support for the move under the requested move thread (simply "Support. ~~~~" would suffice) so a closing administrator can see it is supported by another editor other than myself. Rob984 (talk) 11:31, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Thanks again. Bruno --Domenjod (talk) 12:37, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reference errors on 3 May

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List of special law enforcement units

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Hi Domenjod,

Could you check over List of special law enforcement units#France, particularly regarding BRI-BAC? I made some modifications, if you wouldn't mind checking them over in case I made a mistake. I'm not really sure about the structure of BRI-BAC, and maybe it shouldn't even be shown as a unit? It means BRI has to be listed twice but maybe that is accurate? BRI-PP being effectively part of the Préfecture de police de Paris, while the rest of BRI falls under the wider National Police command? Also, I wonder, since Marseille also has a Préfecture de police, do they also have a separate BRI unit under Préfecture command?

Thanks,

Rob984 (talk) 11:48, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Rob984:

If this is OK with you I'll start with a few background comments :

According to the "Schéma national d'intervention des forces de sécurité" presented to the press in April 2016 by Minister of Interior Cazeneuve, there are three layers of response to terrorist attacks :

http://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/L-actu-du-Ministere/Schema-national-d-intervention-des-forces-de-securite

  • The first layer - falling under the designation "intervention spécialisée" (IS) is made up of the three "national" counter-terrorism units : GIGN, RAID and the Paris BRI (BRI-PP), augmented by their regional branches (13 Antennes du GIGN - including 7 overseas - for the Gendarmerie and 10 "Antennes du RAID" plus 3 overseas GIPNs for the Police).
  • The second layer - called "intervention intermédiaire" (II) is provided by various units, Gendarmerie départementale PSIG "Sabre" and Gendarmerie mobile Pelotons d'intervention, Police BACs (brigade anticriminalités), BRIs and SPI-4G platoons from the CRS. These units are primarily armed and equiped to be able to stabilize a situation but, in a mass-shooting scenario, they may need to intervene without waiting for the IS.
  • The third layer - called "intervention élémentaire" (IE) is made of the regular Gendarmerie and Police patrols and they are neither armed nor trained to be involved in shootouts against terrorists wielding war weapons (AK47s...).

I think (not 100% sure) that the terms "intervention spécialisée", "intervention intermédiaire" and "intervention élémentaire" come from the Gendarmerie and were adapted, with minor changes for the whole ministry of interior in 2016 (see : fr:Intervention (Gendarmerie nationale française).

Now regarding your specific questions :

  • As far as denominations go, the official texts dating from 1972 say that, in a crisis, BRI-PP, reinforced by other units of the PP (including, amongst others, BI or Brigade d'intervention, another PP unit) forms the Brigade anticommando a temporary unit also known as BRI-BAC or "BRI en formation BAC". In fact, although you can read the wording BRI ANTICOMMANDO on some of their tactical vests, the press - and most official press releases seem to use almost exclusively the term BRI, which can be confusing because of the other 16 units using the BRI denomination in France (see : fr:Brigade de recherche et d'intervention, fr:Brigade anticommando and fr:Brigade d'intervention but you probably have already seen those !).

So, to sum up :

  • the Paris Brigade anticommando, when activated is made up of the BRI-PP, with reinforcements. In theory, the term BRI should not be used when they are in "brigade anticommando" format but everyone seems to do so (so I would suggest a note in the article).
  • the other BRI units are judiciary police units trained and equiped for "intervention intermédiaire" in an emergency, including the Marseilles BRI.
  • Only the Paris "Préfet de Police" reports directly to the minister of interior (and not to the General Director of the National Police or DGPN like the rest of the National Police) but all police units (including PP units) are part of the National Police !

Hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of further assistance. I intend to modify the article anyway since it mentions PI2Gs (now re-designated as GIGN branches). I can create that article if OK for you. Also, the article mentions a "groupement interarmées d'hélicoptères" where the real name is Groupe (I might create the article since I already created the French one but, strictly speaking, it is a joint army/air force special ops unit and not a police unit)

Regards, --Domenjod (talk) 18:07, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, certainly helps my understanding. And yeah, please go ahead and make any changes you see appropriate.
So do you think PP units should be shown separately from National Police units, like they are presently? I'm thinking maybe this is misleading, even though PP reports directly to the Minister of Interior, because it suggests PP is not part of the National Police.
I also suggest removing mention of "Brigade anticommando" if it is only a temporary formation?
Maybe it should be shown as something like:
National Police
Regards,
Rob984 (talk) 10:11, 10 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Rob984:
I agree the page should show unanbiguously, that the PP's police units are part of the National Police but that some of the PP units, (for example, the Paris Fire Brigade), do not belong to the Police.
As far as the Brigade anticommando (BAC or BRI-BAC) is concerned, I would suggest to leave it in the list, since it is one of the three French national response teams. The press might mention BRI but the legal texts mention BAC. I would mention that BAC is a temporary unit and that BRI-PP is part of the list - both when it is alone or when it is part of BAC (the same applies for BI). I know this can be confusing and this "Russion pupett" scenario goes one step further as BRI (or Brigade anticommando) and RAID together can form the "Force d'intervention de la Police nationale" or FIPN, another temporary unit that can be activated under the command of the RAID commander in an emergency... So that may have to be mentioned as well.
If OK for you, I'll propose something tomorrow (fighting a bout of influenza doesn't help but a night'rest should help...).
Did you notice the suggestion I made regarding the first line of the article?
Regards,--Domenjod (talk) 20:25, 10 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, yes, both those changes are OK for me. Thank you. Rob984 (talk) 16:55, 12 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oh shit

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Hey my apologies, I totally forgot about the talk section and everything there before I made those edits. I realized my mistakes, thanks for reminding me about the talk page. Later bro. USMCLP (talk) 21:16, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hey @USMCLP:. Thanks for beeing so open and straightforward. Have a great day ! --Domenjod (talk) 05:59, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Police tactical unit

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Hi Domenjod, I reverted your edit to the article. The sources use the term high-risk incidents/situations as the definition. Police services/forces all use different definitions for their unit. There is no consensus in academic work on a definition. The United States has a definition by the National Tactical Officers Association which I inserted at the start of the List of special law enforcement units and it has been moved to the SWAT article with a new section - Definition. The article needs a list of the duties/roles, similar to functions in the introduction of the Special forces article. I don't have a source that concisely lists these and different countries use different terms unlike those internationally standard military terms. Your edit had permanent units -the units can be full time and also part time units. Not sure of the significance of legal trained as a police officer, whether tactical or not, is. Not sure what you meant by psychological aspects. For the equipment, there is a paragraph that they are similarly equipped to military special forces. A Penitentiary unit wouldn't be considered a police tactical unit as it is not part of the police, limited to working in the confines of a prison and are similar to a police riot unit. Customs do have tactical units such as in Europe and in the United States and Customs would be considered police. I will add Customs.Regards, --Melbguy05 (talk) 14:23, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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