User talk:Dnlsanta

Enigma Variations

Hi. I added my comment to the Enigma talk page before I saw your message. It is a curious thing, indeed. But I'm surprised that nobody has ever come up with this before, to my knowledge. And it does seem to be original research, which is against our rules.

I have to say I'm still very much wedded to the "Never, never, never" theory that connects the Enigma Variations to "Rule, Britannia", particularly given Elgar's remark to his friend Dora Penny (the image of Britannia being on the British penny at the time), and given the almost literal borrowing of the musical phrase from the song as the basis of the theme on which the variations are constructed. His remark strongly suggests that the enigma has an essentially simple and obvious solution, and therefore was not one he believed would remain a secret for long. Even though the "pi theory" is not mathematically complex, it is not one that most people of the end of the 19th century could have been expected to ever work out, as it was beyond the bounds of everyday discourse - and still is. There's no reason to believe Dora Penny was versed in mathematics to this degree. I believe it is essentially a coincidence, no more and no less, and had no real relationship to Elgar's creative process. I think Elgar would be more surprised than anyone to know that people are still debating the key to the enigma 75 years after his death. But humans love mysteries and find it hard to let go of them even when the solution is staring them in the face. Cheers -- JackofOz 23:00, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your honest and thoughtful comments.

I am new at this so I hope this is going back to JackOfOz. Elgar did enjoy ciphers and he sent a very complex cipher to Dora a couple of years before he wrote the Enigma Variations. This Dorabella Cipher is well known among cipher "Enthusiasts" and none of them has been able to solve it for over 100 years. I personally feel that he thought, she could solve the simple four note cipher (3-1-4-2) he sent to her as his signature in two letters before telling her that she of all people should have guessed it. You must admit that the Britannia theory in no way addresses the "drop of the seventh in the 3rd and 4th bar should be observed." I think that was a big hint that the two sevenths were needed to get to 11 x 2/7 = 22/7. It is also important to realize that one did not need to guess the connection to all the clues to figure out that the enigma was Pi. All I did was think of his "circle" of friends, consider that Pi is a feature of all mathematical circles, play Pi (3-1-4-2) on a musical scale, and Voila!! Only later did I realize that Pi could fit all of the other clues that he gave.

A sincere thank you for your consideration.

Dnlsanta 02:04, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your most recent message. I've replied here, for the benefit of everyone interested in this most fascinating discussion. -- JackofOz 01:45, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Publishing your ideas

Greetings! It's a hard question; there's lots of journals, and some are more open to submissions like this than others. If you are associated with a university, you are much more likely to get a hearing than if you are not; this is an unfortunate reality of the academic publishing environment, where credentials are everything. You might start with the Elgar Society; they have a journal. They might also be able to direct you to others. Self-publishing on the internet can get you some of the way to your goal. It's a fascinating theory, in my opinion, and deserves to be looked at by some Elgar scholars--be prepared for a lot of rebuff before someone accepts it. Best of luck to you, and by the way, welcome to Wikipedia. Antandrus (talk) 15:30, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Being unwise in the ways of scholarly journals, I was going to suggest you ask Antandrus for his opinion about which one to approach. Fait accompli. -- JackofOz 04:23, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Hello, the theory about pi is interesting (although it seems to me just a little Procrustean), but without references it is original research which consensus holds has no place on Wikipedia. I removed it from the Enigma Variations article. I hope you get the ideas published, so that a reference becomes available for Wikipedia to report. Best wishes, RobertG ♬ talk 19:58, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Re: π

Please continue to update me on the progress of this publication and the added information to the Wikipedia article. —  $PЯINGεrαgђ  04:15 9 April, 2010 (UTC)