User talk:Djengle91

October 2022

Hello, I'm Kleinpecan. I noticed that you made a comment on the page Talk:Donetsk People's Republic that didn't seem very civil, so it may have been removed. Wikipedia is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Kleinpecan (talk) 18:44, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Kleinpecan Did you not see the comment I was replying to? I don't believe I was any less civil than that user, not to mention they have comments on their own talk page dehumanizing Russians. I'm fine with my comment being removed, but how is the comment I replied to allowed? How is that user not banned given both their racism and seemingly multiple accounts of harassment. Djengle91 (talk) 18:52, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I did see Jargo Nautilus's comment, but it had already received a reply from Selfstudier, and removing it would make the subsequent comments nonsensical. I'm not sure what "comments ... dehumanizing Russians" you're talking about. On the contrary, I see a comment that says "Russians who are suffering under the Russian Federation regime, I am on your side". Kleinpecan (talk) 19:09, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Kleinpecan "Russians are mafia who cannot handle criticism and censor those who oppose them. Change my mind. Anyone who is willing, please provide evidence that there is some humanity left within the Russian people. Or have they been completely orcified?" Djengle91 (talk) 19:13, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This message is not specifically aimed at Russian people as a whole, but rather at Russian supporters of the Putin regime. It was also effectively tongue-in-cheek. It was intentionally supposed to "make a statement" and draw attention. I don't actually think that all Russians are mafia. It is never possible to generalise 100% of members of a group, even if 99% of them potentially fit that description. Indeed, I did actually specifically write "Anyone who is willing, please provide evidence that there is some humanity left within the Russian people.", which means I have acknowledged the possibility that not all Russians support the evil that is currently unfolding in Southern and Eastern Ukraine. If I was completely dehumanising Russians, I wouldn't have even acknowledged the possibility that there are still some good Russians left. Jargo Nautilus (talk) 19:19, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My personal view is that present-day Russia (RF) is analogous to historical Nazi Germany. In Nazi Germany, maybe 90% of the population was genuinely on Hitler's side and hated Jews, and everything horrible like that. But there were many stories of "good Germans" (or even "good Nazis") who helped to protect Jews from the carnage that was unfolding in that wretched country. I believe that the majority of Russians hate Ukraine and hate Ukrainians, but a decent number of them are on Ukraine's side or at the very least don't support the bloodshed that Putin is unleashing on Ukrainians. Jargo Nautilus (talk) 19:26, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The specific reference to Russians being "mafia" originates from a source that I found that described the Russian government and economy as functioning akin to a mafia, following the collapse of the Soviet Union. I.e., the society became lawless and overrun by oligarchs and corruption. The country was ruled by cliques and factions. Effectively, Russia had devolved into a mafia-like society. Indeed, I believe that the source that described Russia in this way was actually of a Russian origin, i.e. it was a Russian dissident who was saying these things. Jargo Nautilus (talk) 19:39, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, the official Russian war narrative in Ukraine is that "Ukraine is governed by neo-Nazis", so I don't see how this is any different from me describing Russia as a mafia society. Jargo Nautilus (talk) 19:42, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As for the reference to Nazi Germany... I have never believed that Germans are an evil people. Indeed, I believe that the Nazi regime was fundamentally evil, but the Germans themselves were not. After the Nazi regime was defeated and dismantled, the German people began to recover. In the present day, Germany is a great country with great people. Japan has undergone a similar transformation, originally devolving into the pure evil that was the Empire of Japan, but eventually transforming into the brilliant country that Japan is today. This is the future that I foresee for Russia. I would like the Russian Federation to be dismantled, exactly as Nazi Germany and the Empire of Japan were, and for Russia to be rebuilt as a great country, like present-day Germany and Japan. Jargo Nautilus (talk) 19:49, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have never dehumanised Russians. Indeed, I've made it very clear that I am opposed to the Russian Federation regime, not to Russian people as a whole. By the way, it is possible to hate a "message" without hating the "messenger". I hate Russian nationalism, but I don't hate the Russian nation. I'd be very happy to welcome Russian people into the global society with open arms, as long as they can put their nationalism behind them. Jargo Nautilus (talk) 19:12, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Personal attacks

It's a bit of a farce when people accuse me of "casting aspersions", and then I get sent to an arbitration discussion about that, and yet you here are launching blatant personal attacks against me, and people barely care about this. One person has defended me, @Kleinpecan, which I am thankful for. Indeed, I think you probably should be put under investigation. Fair's fair? Jargo Nautilus (talk) 19:09, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]