User talk:Djegan/Archive5

DO NOT EDIT OR POST REPLIES TO THIS PAGE. THIS PAGE IS AN ARCHIVE.

This archive page covers approximately the dates between 18-FEB-06 and 14-MAY-06.

Post replies to the main talk page, copying or summarizing the section you are replying to if necessary.

Northern Ireland

Hi you reverted an edit on the grounds of code breaking:

(cur) (last) 21:00, 18 February 2006 Djegan m (rv - breaking code)

I'm still quite new, what was wrong with the annotation? 86.12.245.194 06:57, 19 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi their; the reason is because 1) you put the letter "o" on one of the lines which is incorrect and 2) because you placed an external link to a website in the table.

On the first point I assumed it was simply vandalism or an unusual coding style. On the second point, whilst their may be no official language of Northern Ireland their has to be a better way of placing that fact in the article than an external link to a faq list (which could be gone tommorrow). See the way the issue is approached in United States. By all means place the external link in an other appropriate place in the articles main body or on the talk page.

Regards. Djegan 07:47, 19 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that makes sence 86.12.245.194 15:53, 19 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright

Hi, I'm still quite new to this, could you double check the copyright of some images I uploaded at:

[1] [2]

Northern Ireland Murals might be a nice article, but again, what would the copyright of images be?

Thanks Fasach Nua 13:45, 25 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ulster

You might want to keep an eye on Ulster (disambiguation) Jonto is trying to push the Northern Ireland = Ulster POV on it. *sigh* These friggin' Northerners and their defenders. If it isn't Lapsed Pacifist and republicans pushing Six Counties it is Jonto et al pushing Ulster. Zeech. Now I know why a Fianna Fáil TD joked about physically cutting the North off from the rest of the island, letting it float away and then letting NATO use it for target practice. lol Both sides and their POV-pushing are right pain in the bum. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 00:49, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lovely comment Jtdirl - seems to show the true nature of your own inherent biases.

Djegan - you will note that this is a disambiguation page to state the various abmiguous terms in a simple format (jtdirls version being inaccurate) and not an article. It seems more to me Jtdirl seems to be attempting to hiding the fact theat "Ulster" is commonly used to refer to Northern Ireland just because he does not like that usage - as you are another southern Irish wikipedian I guess you may not like this usage either, but hope that you can be more mature than jtdirl. (And no, before you ask, I will not call you a "friggin' southerner" in a similar way to jtdirl! ;) )

I also object severely to being compared to Lapsed_Pacifist - one of the main reasons why I started editing here was to attempt to root out all the PoV that LP inserted in interests of "NPoV" - in fact, this was not obvious until I initially pointed it out to others. You will not find any evidence of me substituting "Northern Ireland" with "Ulster" in a similar manner to LP substituting "Northern Ireland" with "six counties" etc. Later, Jonto 01:25, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was being sarcastic, Jonto. I don't for one moment think you are like LP. And 'Friggin' Northerners' was purely tongue-in-cheek. But on this calling the place "Ulster" is covered on the page. And it is a fact that it is unique to one community. It isn't the official name any more than "Six Counties" is. Your edits misrepresent "Ulster" as though it is an alternative official name for NI. It isn't. But I guess I should stop writing to you here on DJ's page. (BTW my-ex partner is a Northern Ireland Unionist in the DUP! And my best friend is an SDLP activist. Don't interpret my tongue-in-cheek slagging of the North as in any way indicating that I dislike it or its people. I don't. But things like "Ulster", "Six Counties", "Occupied Six Counties" et al breach NPOV if treated as official names.) FearÉIREANN

\^(caint) 01:41, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have left my initial comments at Talk:Ulster (disambiguation). Djegan 21:17, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ummm

whats the welcome message for? ive been doing this for like a year...get with the times man...thanks anyway i think.

WikiTony 04:38, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ps i know how to tiley ~

You haved edited under your account for just over a month and less than fifty edits. Djegan 16:42, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"with my account" is correct. i have been doing it with just my IP address much longer. Sorry i dont sit at my computer and edit wikipedia all day long like you do. jerk. WikiTony 19:35, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please read no personal attacks, I am not trying to approach the subject in bad faith. Djegan 19:37, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dude, it wasnt a personal attack. It was an observation based on evidence. It is a fact, not an attack, that you very frequently edit wikipedia. i apologize for calling you a jerk; that was out of line on my part. I just dont understand why you leave me "Welcome" messages on my talkpage. Please cease and desist. WikiTony 21:45, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, i accept, but note also I only edited your page once. I am not trying to stoke a fire. Djegan 21:49, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Irish neutrality

Would you mind taking a look at this edit for me, it does not seem to be entielry correct ant a bit povish?. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 07:40, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Does seam a bit so and the edits history would appear to agree. Djegan 16:42, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Junior Cert appeals

Well, I was comfortable with the edit I made until you pointed it out. I somehow feel if I were to add the appeals topic to the State Examinations Commission article it would feel very out of place, as it is a very small article.

What's your opinion? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Jboyle4eva (talk • contribs) .

My opinion is that if the material is only relevent to the Junior Cert (and not the Leaving Cert) then it should stay where it is. Djegan 17:26, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Public Access- TCD

You have reverted my contribution to the TCD page on the basis that Wikipedia is an Encyclopdeia rather than a blog. Definition of Encyclopdeia: A comprehensive reference work containing articles on a wide range of subjects or on numerous aspects of a particular field, usually arranged alphabetically. Which WikiPedia RULE have I violated by presenting this factual information? Metaphysicist 14:39, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just about every organisation closes on Saint Patrick's Day in Ireland; so its irrelevent, see Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. If you have any more comments place them at Talk:Trinity College, Dublin.

Djegan 14:45, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

IDA Ireland

Hi, I'm a new participant but the material I prepared is based on published material from the Agency web site. I adapted it slightly but I'm not aware of any copyright restriction given the context of its use here. PaPa 23:26, 20 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The main restriction, in reproducing it here, would be that the IDA website indicates copyright by "©IDA 2006" which is placed on every page I visited on www.idaireland.com. When you click on edit a number of statements appear under the edit box and links give information on copyright and license policy of your contributions - read these if unsure of copyright and licence issues.

In any case its not a good principal to copy material directly (or near directly) from websites. Djegan 23:42, 20 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

UK Olympic team?

Have you seen this?

Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_March_20#Category:Great_Britain_at_the_Olympics_to_Category:United_Kingdom_at_the_Olympics

--Mais oui! 22:34, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Admin

Any interest in being an administrator? Random observation of your edits in my watchlist and being mentioned on talk pages suggest you'd make a good one. --Kiand 22:46, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Whilst it not unwelcome to be considered good enough as a administrator, I am kept busy enough at the moment checking edits and such things. But thanks anyhow. Djegan 23:57, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Question about link boxes

How can the link boxes at the bottom of a page be edited? For example, I have noticed that the "Museums and Galleries in Ireland" link box (on every Irish museum definition) neglects to mention the National Transport Museum of Ireland, the National Wax Museum (Ireland), the Dublin Writers Museum (URL: http://www.writersmuseum.com/) and the James Joyce Centre (URL: http://www.jamesjoyce.ie/). I would like to edit the link box to include these but don't know how to go about it. Beta 00:18, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Click on edit and towards the bottom of the page you will see the templates in that page, i.e. on this one Template:Museums and Galleries in Ireland. Click on that link (or this) and you can edit it just like any other page. Djegan 23:27, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a mill

DCUSU Article Creation

Since DCU's main entry has gone above the 32KB limit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_size) may I suggest that the information about DCUSU and DCUSU funding be moved into a separate article as has been done with UCDSU:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCDSU

I suggest DCU Students' Union as the article title, you can cateorise it as Category:Students' unions, in addition to Category:Dublin City University. Djegan 07:00, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you do create a article then be sure to give as much good quaility history and relevence material as neccessary as student union and student society articles are sometimes frowned on if they contain little original or interesting material. Djegan 10:09, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is the new DCUSU article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DCU_Students%27_Union

I don't know enough about DCUSU's history to write a paragraph on it though.

"Comfort - i am minded to delete this section as it could be said of most operators"

Get off the stage DJ. You don't own the Dublin Bus Article so please don't act a censor. Use the discussion pages for comments. If all articles were edited to remove features that subjects had in common with similar subjects then Wikipedia would be very thin.

You dont own it either. The subject matter is trivial. Djegan 20:34, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Triviality is a matter of opinion. I haven't deleted any of your material. I only delete material that I believe is factually wrong. Try not to be so judgemental.

Its not a matter of I/you did/didn't delete material, wikipedia is an encylopedia, Wikipedia is not a collections of indiscriminate information. Please read the statement at the bottom (when you press edit) if you are concerned about articles been reviewed or someone been "judgemental", it says:

If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it.

Djegan 20:52, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I know that quotation very well. I get the impression that you're operating from a position of intellectual snobbery. Not everyone has experienced public transport throughout the world and many people are interested in the details of the services - I really don't think it's trivial that only one wheelchair can be accommodated on a bus - but you do apparently as you deleted this point. How do you define "Trivial"? You appear to be reasonably intelligent so why don't you edit the article to add substantial headings such as market share of the travelling public, strategy, company organisation, finance, environmental policy, relations with local and central government and violence against staff.

Since your not convinced, I will reply for each point on Talk:Dublin Bus soon. Djegan 20:12, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Djegan 20:44, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Lapsed Pacifist

A final decision has been reached in the above arbitration case, and the case has been closed.

For the Arbitration Committee. --Tony Sidaway 19:22, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Would you mind

Would you mind?

Is there a rule that we must use templates?

wtf is wrong with you

Templates are advisable. Djegan 22:11, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why?

why do you alway edit the article when I am editing?

I really dont like the editing mismatch warning that I get when you jump in

please stop, at least make sure I am not currently editing

its quite annoying and childish if you do it on purpose

Its quite reasonable for me to edit article at any time, please assume good faith. If you want to make a complicated edit that requires some time and input then use Template:Inuse, within its terms. But people dont have to ask permission to edit articles.

Djegan 18:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Edward de Valera

No-one has ever heard of Edward de Valera. Éamon de Valera is the name he was known by, and is what should begin the article. He changed his name long before becoming well known. See Talk:Eamon de Valera and the Manual of Style. David | Talk 10:01, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Its not the use of Edward that upsets me its the confused use of "Éamon" and "Eamon" - its quite easy to see the difference and they should be so treated. Djegan 10:04, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In that case why did you revert rather than just removing the accent? David | Talk 10:05, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That article has become central station for vandalism. Djegan 10:07, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Irish Question

You may be aware that there has recently been a dispute about whether the {{British TOCs}} template should include Northern Irish train operators. In order to gain consensus and move forward there is currently a discussion about whether the scope of the template should be Great Britain or the United Kingdom. You have previously commented on this tempate but have not yet made any remarks in the latest discussion. If you would like to express your opinion please do so at Template talk:British TOCs#The Irish Question - What is the scope of this template?. Thryduulf 21:49, 19 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pouplation question

I posted something on the notice board about the pouplation question that i brough up, but you might have missed it as it was accidently reverted. Anyway, i dont really want to move forward whitout an opinion on the idea, but i guess i might if i dont here anything. Being that so far you have been the only one to engage myself on the question, was wondeing if you would like to give an idea. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 07:41, 29 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

3 revert rule

Hi Djegen, and belated thanks for your welcome of September last year.

I'm not sure where to bring this question, so I'm turning to an Irish Wikipedian. Can you please advise me on how to enforce the 3 revert rule? An edit to the article Easter Proclamation has now been reverted three times in 72 hours by jtdirl aka FearÉIREANN, despite crystal clear explanation of the edit in the edit summary, and lengthy discussion on the discussion page. I am unsure as to where to go from here.

Thanks, Scolaire 22:01, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Three-revert rule for details. Djegan 22:14, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'm learning as I go along. Scolaire 19:09, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You might want to look . . .

I know it isn't your area, but you might want to look at Reza Pahlavi II, an article on the pretender to the throne of Iran. Iranian monarchists seem to want to ensure the article is an OTT hagiography and don't like even mild criticism being added in. The article needs professional salvage. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 00:23, 3 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox Irish University

I don't know if you were aware of this, but their is an attempt to remove the usage of this infobox by a cabal of users that are pressing the one standard box, threw a back door method. I am contesting this by basically disregarding the idea that it deprecated for the fact that they never notified anyone with concerns to the Irish infobox to this situation, their was nothing posted on the talk page nothing on the notice board, and as primary editor, i don't see that you have been contacted for your opinion, so how can we considered it deprecated, if that the people that were involved in the infobox or have an interest in it are not involve in the discussion to practically set it up for deletion. This is similar to the issue you brought up when we went forward with the new place infobox. I have reached an "understanding with at least one user on this issue, User:Reflex Reaction, though another user is attempting to subvet it by chanhing the templates anyway, User:AzaToth, funn that he is an Wikipedia:Esperanza cant say that i have a good interaction with that group, thoughts? --Boothy443 | trácht ar 05:58, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My own feeling on depreciation is that it is an empty formula and meaningless; their does not appear to be an official policy on it so theirfore a formal template for deletion would be required anyway, thats the main reason why I have not bothered about the depreciation.

In any case if a deletion goes up for Template:Infobox Irish University then Template:Infobox University is going to need any of the fields the former has. My own feeling is that Template:Infobox University is a fundementasl good idea but a dreadful implementation and an awfully cluttered thing (for instance the English language and national language are the same size which is simply confusing).

Thanks for the support anyway. Definitely I will watch developments. Djegan 18:08, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Totaly agree with you, i for one do not like how the deprecheation has been used in this case. To me it is nothing more then a back door way of getting an item delted, first by discourging the use of the template, and secondly basicaly it gives the green light to replace the current template being used to an alternative, which would eventualy leed to it's deletion being that it would no longer be in use, in other words it, espically in the manner that it has been used in this case, is a way of going around a TFD, which bwased upon my discussions it has, but was never marked as such, and survived, as if it did not it would have been deleted and replaced. Granted we are doing something similar with the irish place box, i think we hve done it different by keeping the discussion open, by putting it on the board, by putting the notice on thr talk of the other templates, and at least i have seek out the editors of the other versions to see what they though. Something that can not be said about this situation.

As for the Infobox University, agree, i think the concept is ia a good one, though i dont think the implementation is a good one, and i think the part of the fact is that thye did not seek out to get the opinions of the editors of the templates that were seeking to relpace, i think this issue also extends to other single use templates, where they dont seek out to try to colabrate with the editors of the alternative templates to create a better one, rather then to push the idae of their being the better one, leading to some shotty work, my opinion. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 03:59, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

BTW i am going to keep a copy of the coding of thr template in my workspace, i figure that if they decide to delet the template, user their on ways on them, either recreat the template or subst the template in, start a discussion on the notice board or on the talk page, and annouce that we are drprecheating the use of the other template on irish univeristy articles, even if they do tfd it does not mean that we cant creat an alternative, will have to be modified. Anyway this is one of the reasons i wnat to get a project side for the notice board, so we can start staking our claims per say, i might whip something up tonight. I am sorry if ai m such a radical on this, but this is different then pov wars, and such, incidents like this are nothing less then a slp to the so called wiki principal that i belive in, that being collaboration, and i am tired of seeing ppl act like lapdogs, when it comes to thiese things. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 03:59, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Any way, yeah i have no problem with supporting you on this issue as well, and it would be nice to see others come along to, if i here anything that does not come your way i'll let you know. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 03:25, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the support. My own feeling is that if it gets deleted so be it, I will keep the code but will not recreate a duplicate, but just collaborate with the status quo. What it has really reminded me of is that some editors think that its good enough to just nominate a template because their pet project comes first; and their not willing to discuss and come to a consensus (remembering this is what keeps wikipedia moving forward). Its also a reminder of how difficult it is to motivate other Irish wikipedians to contribute to votes (admittantly either way). Djegan 19:30, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well thats it you, as for me i have no intensions with working with the status quoe, as their actions in this situation have basiclay show that they have no respect for other editors of templats that are oppsed to their, they could have sook to includeed this templat in discussion but insted have tried to force it's deletion so i have no respect for them. I am tempted to create an alternative template and start using it. I have no proble with pet projects, evenone on here has them, but this is unappropate, and sets a bad precident in which will just be picked up by other users. And as for the reaction for the board, i am not supprised, they only seem to come out and express an opinion when it s political issue or deals with them directly. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 21:45, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

About Trinity College, Dublin

You did revert me without specify any reason. _→AzaToth 19:39, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

First of all you replaced the current template without any discussion, second of all the name of the college is "Trinity College, Dublin". Djegan 19:44, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Then please express that than just revert. also I don't think the college have Dublin in it's name, it mudt be that the collage is located in Dublin. _→AzaToth 19:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you should impose that standard of expression with depreciations and nominations for deletion? Djegan 19:54, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe, maybe not. I'll try to explain why this happend, when we started a couple of month ago to replace country-specific templates with the generic version, there was some problems at TFD, there was an extensive backlog and the holding cell was filled to the maximum. To ease the preassure of having to nominate all template at a time, we took the decission to phase them out slowly. No one complained about that procedure so we keep on with it. There have never been any tries to have a cabal. But in this case we perhaps have been to hars, and I'm sorry for that, that's why I nominate if for tfd at this point. _→AzaToth 20:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fundementally I have no problems with a single master template but that template needs to include the information in templates that are merged into it; otherwise its an afront to good practice. Nomination just because you dont feel like discussing the issues just looks a bit shallow. Djegan 20:19, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

By the way its generally accepted that Trinity College is referred to as Trinity College, Dublin. The few times its not called such include the Trinity College harp (theirs only one such harp) and University of Dublin, Trinity College (no need to repeat). Djegan 20:19, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You might want to watch the Provisional IRA article. We've another republican deleting stuff *sigh*. What is it about extremists in the North? When they aren't fighting on the streets up there they start fighting their fight on Wikipedia articles. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 20:23, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Éire/Ireland

Hi, re: Éire/Ireland change in The Emergency, please see Talk:The_Emergency for my reasons for using "Éire" instead of "Ireland". Can you revert? Thanks Fluffy999 15:15, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your reasoning, but the reason for my change is that Éire is simply the Irish word for Ireland and is not and was never the states name in English; irrespective of historic, abeit incorrect, usage on the part of British and Germans. Fundementally Éire is simply an expression of the Gaelic paradise that Éamon de Valera was obsessed with creating at the time. Its a term that has seen very little usage outside the United Kingdom historically and in modern times is all but extinct in English; its not at all popular in modern Ireland indeed to the point of been unpopular or cliched.

Whilst I agree that Éire/Ireland is somewhat more clumsy than Éire; it appeases both sides of the arguement. Generally this issue has been discussed at talk:Éire talk:Ireland, talk:Republic of Ireland but no firm decision has been taken as to its usage.

Djegan 15:29, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, no problem, not worth fighting over. I'm away out to enjoy the sunshine :) Fluffy999 15:34, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm trialling the new approach in this article Christmas Raid Stating the country as Ireland with a footnote to say it was also known as Eire in the period. Fluffy999 19:36, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You could, if you want, take the issue for discussion at Wikipedia talk:Irish Wikipedians' notice board and see if its possible to get any discussion and consensus on a way forward. My own opinion is that it is an unresolved issue and could do with a manual of style guidance. Djegan 19:45, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK thanks, might give that a go. Thanks for your help. Fluffy999 13:47, 14 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again, I noticed that the whole Eire/Ireland thing is happening over on the RUC article. I will direct them to talk:Éire talk:Ireland, talk:Republic of Ireland as you advised previously. Thanks. Fluffy999 21:33, 28 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Belfast

The roads listed were main roads not streets.