User talk:Diplomacymatters

Welcome!

Hello, Diplomacymatters, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome!

If you have a close connection to some of the people, places or things you have written about in the article Diplomatic corps, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred from the tone of the edit and the proximity of the editor to the subject, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:

editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors;
linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam); and,
avoid breaching relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for businesses. For more details about what, exactly, constitutes a conflict of interest, please see our conflict of interest guidelines. The image you have contributed does not appear to be an official seal, but connected to a commercial website. It would be helpful if you could clarify whether or not you have any link to that website. Thank you.

Not really following you here. The diplomatic corps is a private organisation. I am new to wikipedia so please understand if I make syntax mistakes or do something wrong, I am still learning. As for the image, it is the same one I have on my diplomatic ID card.

I am a diplomat. I wanted to contribute to wikipedia because I think it is an excellent resource but if you consider my being a diplomat a conflict of interest then there is no other subject that interests me really, so I cannot be of an use to you here. Take care Diplomacymatters (talk) 06:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for clarifying. The website appears to be a private one, and I don't believe that symbol is universal or "official" in the sense that seems to be implied in its description, or at least not universally so (I don't know where you're using it, but I have never seen it in use). If it is a private symbol or organization, then using it in wikipedia would effectively constitute promotion of that organization. It would also help to establish if the organization is notable.

But if you are not connected to the website in question and the company there, then it may not be a conflict of interest for you. (Being a diplomat would not necessarily be a conflict of interest).

And welcome again.--Gregalton (talk) 07:44, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi.

Most people are familiar with the CD symbol of 2 letters "CD" which appear on the back of diplomatic vehicles and also, dependent on the country, sometimes as a prefix in the license plate.

You have never seen the seal I uploaded, because as far as I know, you are not a a diplomat and this seal is used mostly internally on Diplomatic Note documents sometimes sent out by the Diplomatic Corps.

Unfortunately. there is insufficient information about the Diplomatic Corps on wikipedia, which is why I wanted to help out. Actually, I am upset at the lack of information on the Diplomatic Corps. The image I uploaded was the only copy of that logo I could find in digital format. So, pleased with myself, I uploaded it. Can I suggest leaving the seal up, until further references are provided or a "notable" version is provided? The Diplomatic Corps WILL object if that image is not official.

Or, I could scan a diplomatic note I have with this logo (which has only CD with wreath) and upload that? Or, I could scan the black and white CD stamp off the back of my diplomatic ID and upload that? It's up to you really, you know what works and what doesn't on wikipedia. This is all new to me. Look forward to your help. ThanksDiplomacymatters (talk) 15:49, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have answered you above regarding our emblem disussion, but there is something else you may be able to help me with. Yesterday, I was reading this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_diplomatic_missions_in_Hungary and discovered that the Burundi and Central African Republic Embassies are not listed. I left a message on the talk page suggesting they should be added, but heard nothing back yet. Is that what I am supposed to do, leave a message on the talk page suggesting the update? ThanksDiplomacymatters (talk) 16:04, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, here is the note verbale with CD logo. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Diplomatic-memorandum.jpg I apologize for the quality, but even when new, they are always printed badly. The diplomatic corps need to spend a little more time on presentation, I know. I can arrange a scan of my diplomatic ID too, but I am not comfortable sending this into the public domain because of crooks getting their hands on the design. I can send it to you by email though if you like. (this offer to mail a copy of the ID is only for Gregalton)Diplomacymatters (talk) 19:02, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hungary

Thank you for your suggestion. When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).

Putting this note in: if you think the Hungary page is wrong/incomplete, fix it!--Gregalton (talk) 20:27, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image, etc

I'm not an expert, but I would still say that this isn't an "official" image. It may be being used as such by someone, somewhere, but that doesn't make it so.

No need to send me the scan of your diplomatic ID card. It would seem to indicate to me simply that in some location this image is being used. While the Corps diplomatique exists, that doesn't make it an organisation.

I'm aware of the CD convention, but that's a slightly different issue.

Thanks for your help. I appreciate it.

Actually, the Diplomatic Corps is collectively an autonomous body, not an organisation. At least, that's what I learned when I did my degree in Bilateral Diplomacy.

I suggest then adding the logo with "image is known to have been used by the Diplomatic Corps" ? or something along those lines?Diplomacymatters (talk) 21:56, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Apart from the relevancy (known to have been used by the diplomatic corps where?), my issue with the image is that the provider of the image is a commercial site promoting commercial services. Hence, promoting the image promotes its services.--Gregalton (talk) 01:28, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, used by the DC on things like IDs, notes, newsletters etc.

But which site are you talking about? If you are talking about corpsdiplomatique site, that is not a commercial website. I don't see anything on there for sale?? But I see where you are coming from now, because if you click on the image, there is a link to that site, so you are saying that is like promotion or free publicity or something like that right?.

Okay, fair enough, I get it now.

So if I can get a DC image that is not taken from that site, that's fine with you?Diplomacymatters (talk) 01:42, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the key thing would be that the provenance of the image be clear, where it's from and who uses it. One thing I still don't understand is what corps diplomatique you're referring to - it will be different in each jurisdiction, no?--Gregalton (talk) 03:36, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The seal is much the same as the CD stickers you will see on the back of a diplomatic car. This is a generic logo, in fact, I think they are all printed in the same factory because the are all identical. The seal I uploaded is the same thing, I have worked in several countries as a diplomat and all corps correspondence sent into to the missions (although rare) has that same logo on it. Sometimes with, and somtimes without the outer rim part.

So that website are using the actual seal of the diplomatic corps. I have never seen one 500 x 500 pixels before, only like 100 x 100 pixels maximum. Which leads me to believe they got this logo direct from source. It hadn't been blown up or anything. You see what I mean?

I would like to see the corps seal up here. But would prefer if you posted it up, i don't want to mess up and link to anything I shouldn't. As I am new to wikipedia editing, I didn't understand the image license rules very well and felt I needed to link to that site. I would appreciate your help.Diplomacymatters (talk) 04:02, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And yes, you are right, each corps is independent of each other but communicate together. Imagine the seal like the seal of the UN as an example. The seal is generic, but different departments will have something written underneath it like NEW YORK or LONDON etc, but the main seal stays the same. That's what I am trying to say.Diplomacymatters (talk) 04:09, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I don't agree with the analogy. There is an official seal of the UN, and the UN is an organisation with a charter, etc. Again, I'm willing to consider an image if its provenance and relevance can be shown and referenced.--Gregalton (talk) 07:04, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well there is nothing I can do then. I am sitting here with DC issued documents with the same emblem on them, some from different countries I have worked in. I know I am right and you are wrong, but what I think counts for squat here and as a result wikipedia readers will lose out. I thank you for taking the time on this, but you are dead wrong in assuming that there is not a generic emblem for the Diplomatic Corps. Have fun!

I'm not questioning that you have seen this in use, but I have not. See the welcome message above - one of the pillars of wikipedia is verifiability. Hope you remain and contribute.--Gregalton (talk) 19:24, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So you are saying that the fact you have or have not seen anything in use counts for something? Congratulations, because what I have seen and what I am physically holding in my hand count for nothing.Diplomacymatters (talk) 20:51, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, I'm saying that wp has a separate test for wp:verifiability that doesn't depend on me. Nor on you, but rather on what wp:reliable sources can be found. Otherwise we would get into pointless "he said/she said" discussions. My point was only that just because it has been seen or used in some places does not make it universal or authoritative.

It would be fine if you can show that this is some sort of authoritative symbol. For a number of reasons (based on the nature of the diplomatic corps) I'm skeptical, but I'd be perfectly happy to be proven wrong.--Gregalton (talk) 21:00, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest looking at: http://images.google.com/images?ndsp=20&um=1&hl=en&safe=on&q=scouts+emblem&start=0&sa=N and seeing what all of these groups have in common.Diplomacymatters (talk) 21:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They have in common the branded image of an official organisation that is easily confirmed and verified: scout emblems.--Gregalton (talk) 06:25, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]